More evidence supporting Resort Group theory

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

On this and other timesharing boards, I have asserted that timesharing resort groups will be the dominant form of timesharing over the next 20 years.

To me, a timesharing resort group is a branded timeshare offering that provides many of the same benefits that point systems do today. I make a distinction between a resort group and a point system because a resort group does not have to be a point system. Marriott is an example of a resort group that is not a point system.

A resort group is a collection of resorts that share internal reservation privileges with its own reservation system, have a common brand experience, pool weeks to gain leverage on exchange companies, offers bonus time, bonus weeks or rentals to members, has an active internal rental program and much more. When you buy into a resort group, you are buying into the entire suite of resorts, not just a single resort.

The litmus test I have been using to determine whether or not this theory holds water is the relationship that Marriott has with II and Orange Lake Country Club with RCI. It has never made sense to me that Marriott and Orange Lake wouldn't create their own internal exchange system while at the same time negotiating the same type of sweetheart deal other point systems have negotiated with II and RCI.

Well, I just read that Dave M on TUG has reported that Marriott is indeed working through a project to provide Marriott Vacation Club owners the ability to exchange weeks internally within Marriott.

And, JLB was the first to report Orange Lake's survey asking questions about internal exchange and other point system benefits.

It's just a matter of time. All of the best branded resorts will be members of resort groups and the weeks exchange systems will be left with the small independents.

Further evidence of this theory will be when branded resort groups bypass II and RCI completely and enable direct exchange between resort groups. Think of Starwood owners being able to directly exchange weeks with Marriott owners using their own internal reservation system. That will happen sometime over the next 5 years. Just remember, you heard it here first.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I agree that Marriott is long over do with this type of system. I look forward to the day that I can make an exchange without having to go thru II.

Most times, I use my Marriott timeshares to exchange into another Marriott anyway. Now I will use my newly purchase Starwood to try to exchange into the Starwood system.

If both systems had a mutual agreement cutting out II, that would be even nicer........

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Well I'm not exactly sure what your theory is, but resort groups already are an obvious force in the timeshare industry. Independent resorts, with a few exceptions are mostly smaller resorts. In New England, InnSeasons has recently put together a resort group complete with affiliated resorts. Hotel groups have seen the obvious profitability in timeshares and have also joined in big time.

[CaliDave Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close CaliDave]

I agree with you Boca..

Grand Pacific resorts which has some of the best resorts in So Cal.. has teamed up with HGVC for thier new resort. If it goes well, they may affliate all their resorts with HGVC's mini system.

I think these kinds of alliances could be the downfall of RCI points.

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

Grand Pacific Resorts group is weeks based with RCI.....and the vast majority of owners rejected converting to RCI points. GPR also has internal exchange priority in RCI weeks with discount as well as its own internal exchange program but most exchangers still use RCI weeks.

GPR now has a new resort coming on-line in sales and starting construction and management is exploring the waters with HGVC....we shall see how that goes...should be interesting.

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

Yes, how can you not agree that this is the future of TS.

There may be an independant developer now and again but these mulitiple location TS families are how TS will look in the future. For independant TS, there are resort management companies which offer a similar mini system, the best example is VRI.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Yes, how can you not agree that this is the future of TS.

There may be an independant developer now and again but these mulitiple location TS families are how TS will look in the future. For independant TS, there are resort management companies which offer a similar mini system, the best example is VRI.

I think you will hear from some who disagree with the direction momentarily....

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Grand Pacific Resorts group is weeks based with RCI.....and the vast majority of owners rejected converting to RCI points. GPR also has internal exchange priority in RCI weeks with discount as well as its own internal exchange program but most exchangers still use RCI weeks.

GPR now has a new resort coming on-line in sales and starting construction and management is exploring the waters with HGVC....we shall see how that goes...should be interesting.

Why wouldn't GPR just create it's own internal reservation system and bypass RCI completely?

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

Because they are in sales and need fresh meat....why else.

Why wouldn't GPR just create it's own internal reservation system and bypass RCI completely?

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

Marriott group

I am here at the Marriott Newport Coast Villas this week. Monday night I went to the wine and cheese receptions at the resort here. It was really a 1 hour sales pitch by the Sales Manager for Marriott group. I was the only nonMarriott exchanger there. About half were owners and the other half were Marriott exchangers.

Questions raise was when Marriott would start there own internal exchange system(2-3 years was the answer). More than a few were not happy exchanging through II.

Owners at Newport Coast Villas are getting shorted trading with II, but many just don't know it. They are depositing a 2 bedroom but having to struggle to find a 2 bedroom exhange if they go to Hawaii or Palm Desert where many owners lock-off there units into studios and 1 bedroom. Having a 2 bedroom does you no good if the location you are trading into only has 1 bedroom units available.

Marriott needs to even the playing field with a internal trading system that puts more 2 bedrooms into the system. Marriott has given up control of inventory management to exchangers who split units and deposit the most demand weeks into II for exchangers and not owners.

Short

[VVTrader Member Find all posts View Profile Close VVTrader]

timeshare groups

I agree. I'm new to the whole timesharing thing. I visited the Vacation Village properties in Weston and saw the one in Orlando (Vacation Village at Parkway) and purchased 4 different timeshares in Weston, Orlando and Vegas. Unfortunately in their group which is managed by Daily Management Resorts, they do not have internal trading. That means you're stuck with the week you bought and the timeshare you bought at. That in my opinion is why a beautiful resort group is selling at such a deep discount to the Hiltons, Hyatts, Marriotts, etc. I then sold all of them, keeping the Vegas resort because it was an RCI points resort. If Daily Management ever got their act together and started offering internal trading, their ts's would rise quickly on the resale market. Unfortunately it looks like they're heading more towards rentals to the public rather than internal trading by the looks of the Daily Management resorts website.
I'll keep a watch because you never know.

[Mark @SFX Industry Representative Find all posts View Profile Close Mark @SFX]

On this and other timesharing boards, I have asserted that timesharing resort groups will be the dominant form of timesharing over the next 20 years.

To me, a timesharing resort group is a branded timeshare offering that provides many of the same benefits that point systems do today. I make a distinction between a resort group and a point system because a resort group does not have to be a point system. Marriott is an example of a resort group that is not a point system.

A resort group is a collection of resorts that share internal reservation privileges with its own reservation system, have a common brand experience, pool weeks to gain leverage on exchange companies, offers bonus time, bonus weeks or rentals to members, has an active internal rental program and much more. When you buy into a resort group, you are buying into the entire suite of resorts, not just a single resort.

The litmus test I have been using to determine whether or not this theory holds water is the relationship that Marriott has with II and Orange Lake Country Club with RCI. It has never made sense to me that Marriott and Orange Lake wouldn't create their own internal exchange system while at the same time negotiating the same type of sweetheart deal other point systems have negotiated with II and RCI.

Well, I just read that Dave M on TUG has reported that Marriott is indeed working through a project to provide Marriott Vacation Club owners the ability to exchange weeks internally within Marriott.

And, JLB was the first to report Orange Lake's survey asking questions about internal exchange and other point system benefits.

It's just a matter of time. All of the best branded resorts will be members of resort groups and the weeks exchange systems will be left with the small independents.

Further evidence of this theory will be when branded resort groups bypass II and RCI completely and enable direct exchange between resort groups. Think of Starwood owners being able to directly exchange weeks with Marriott owners using their own internal reservation system. That will happen sometime over the next 5 years. Just remember, you heard it here first.

BocaBum99 - What future? This is something SFX has been doing for a number years as their business model. The original business plan of SFX which goes way back to 1992 was the creation of "Trading-Blocks". Strategic Alliances between certain resorts that have reciprocal trading privileges amongst each other using SFX as the administrative processor of the exchange component.

Many of the resort's that are part of the alliance have no interest to convert to points. Some have already tried it and reverted back to weeks.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

BocaBum99 - What future? This is something SFX has been doing for a number years as their business model. The original business plan of SFX which goes way back to 1992 was the creation of "Trading-Blocks". Strategic Alliances between certain resorts that have reciprocal trading privileges amongst each other using SFX as the administrative processor of the exchange component.

Many of the resort's that are part of the alliance have no interest to convert to points. Some have already tried it and reverted back to weeks.

Mark,

With all due respect to SFX as a company, SFX is NOT a resort group. SFX is a highly specialize weeks exchange company like RCI weeks and II.

Perhaps part of your business model is to outsource your reservation system to resorts like the Mayan Palace resorts. If that is the case, then that is part of what I am talking about.

To me a resort group both manages the resorts AND provides internal reservations. The best ones have online reservation systems where you can check availability and it is very predictable.

I strongly believe that in order for timesharing to achieve 20% penetration into American families that reservations must work like hotels do today. If you need to wait for someone to deposit a week, then most people will be highly dissatisfied with the lack of availability that results from that practice.

As resort groups continue to grow and directly affiliate with each other, there will be less need for companies like SFX. It doesn't mean that your company won't continue to grow. It's just that the other systems will be growing much faster.

I forgot to mention that internal exchanges are FREE (or just nominal like less than $49). They can do that because managing a reservation system is just part of the management fee of the resort group. So, if you aren't managing part of the resort, you can afford to offer free exchanges.

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

Stratigic alliances

BocaBum99 - What future? This is something SFX has been doing for a number years as their business model. The original business plan of SFX which goes way back to 1992 was the creation of "Trading-Blocks". Strategic Alliances between certain resorts that have reciprocal trading privileges amongst each other using SFX as the administrative processor of the exchange component.

Many of the resort's that are part of the alliance have no interest to convert to points. Some have already tried it and reverted back to weeks.

Mark

Isn't one of your stratigic alliances with HGVC? HGVC is points based group and I don't see them changing anytime soon.

Are you doing the administrative trades with Club Intrawest or is HGVC doing this direct with CI?

Short

[Mark @SFX Industry Representative Find all posts View Profile Close Mark @SFX]

Mark,

With all due respect to SFX as a company, SFX is NOT a resort group. SFX is a highly specialize weeks exchange company like RCI weeks and II.

Perhaps part of your business model is to outsource your reservation system to resorts like the Mayan Palace resorts. If that is the case, then that is part of what I am talking about.

To me a resort group both manages the resorts AND provides internal reservations. The best ones have online reservation systems where you can check availability and it is very predictable.

I strongly believe that in order for timesharing to achieve 20% penetration into American families that reservations must work like hotels do today. If you need to wait for someone to deposit a week, then most people will be highly dissatisfied with the lack of availability that results from that practice.

As resort groups continue to grow and directly affiliate with each other, there will be less need for companies like SFX. It doesn't mean that your company won't continue to grow. It's just that the other systems will be growing much faster.

I forgot to mention that internal exchanges are FREE (or just nominal like less than $49). They can do that because managing a reservation system is just part of the management fee of the resort group. So, if you aren't managing part of the resort, you can afford to offer free exchanges.

BocaBum - a Resort Group in some instances could be defined as a group of resorts with reciprocal use privileges amongst each other's properties where they manage the internal processing amongst themselves. That is already happening with certain resorts.

The principal of Resort Groups or Trading Blocks as we call them has been the operative business model of SFX since 1992. The point being no matter how you define any variances with the concept, it is not the "future", it is something that has been around for quite a while... and will further develop and grow with greater dynamics.

There are a number of developers who do not want the responsibility and cost of administering an exchange component when they can outsource to companies like SFX at a more cost effective rate with greater efficiencies all round. That is not to say there will be some who choose not to outsource.

.............I strongly believe that in order for timesharing to achieve 20% penetration into American families that reservations must work like hotels do today.......

Timeshares operating with the same flexibility as hotels is a utopian idea, and is attempted with the points model. Like anything, there are pluses and minuses. The core business model of a conventional timeshare plan is to provide a family "vacation". Most people consider a major vacation as an incremental week or two.

When you start breaking up space at a resort less than weekly increments, for up to 2, 3, or 4 days usage, most of that demand is for weekends leaving mid-week space that has extremely small to no demand leaving empty units (known as "breakage"). This breakage is a nightmare for resorts and still has a cost factor.... it also diminishes the availability and ability for Owners to book weekly Vacations., which for most people is the primary reason they purchased in the first place.

Keep in mind... most people buy these plans for "Vacations" more that "Get a ways". Most people love the idea of low cost 2 or 3 day get a ways... but that is a different concept from the core model of Vacation Ownership.

............If you need to wait for someone to deposit a week, then most people will be highly dissatisfied with the lack of availability that results from that practice.............

That may be correct. However, in the Trading Block model many of the weeks are ceded into SFX by the alliance of resorts. This is only one of several resources for deposited time to us, and it doesn't matter how many weeks are ceded there is still a "Limited Supply of Space" at every resort.

..........I forgot to mention that internal exchanges are FREE (or just nominal like less than $49). They can do that because managing a reservation system is just part of the management fee of the resort group. So, if you aren't managing part of the resort, you can afford to offer free exchanges......

Free ??? Sorry, but I don't see where Free fits into this equation. Cost of software development, maintenance of technology, staffing etc... I could provide you with a much larger list. We all know nothing is free, and I don't know too many people who wish to have another line item in the HOA fee for a prepaid exchange fee for an exchange they may or may not wish to go on.

Have to get back to work for now...