Chateau World trying to sell Banff resort to members...Is it a good investment?

[YEGOiler Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close YEGOiler]

I bought a membership in a timeshare company called Chateau World. It recently went bankrupt and now the same owners have approched me to buy a fractional interest in one unit at the resort. They said I can buy it using my RRSP's (registered retirement savings) and they would manage and rent out the unit. I would have to extend a mortgage from my RRSP to another person buying a fractional and they would extend a mortgage from their RRSP to me. I could also use the unit for my own personal use to enjoy and also be part of a vacation exchange network so I can travel around the world at very little cost. At the end of the term they would sell the unit and all profits would be shared. I am being told that this is not a timeshare but an investment. Is this a good investment?

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Do a search for Chateau World on the top blue link bar here for 2 recent threads about Chateau World and accomplices. I wouldn't touch them or anything they own at this time.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

I wouldn't touch this with a 10' pole. Why in the world would you be willing to risk your retirement savings on something you don't know anything about? They may not call it a timeshare, but if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck then it IS a duck.

[YEGOiler Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close YEGOiler]

more info on Canmore Inn of the Rockies

They made it sound like a good deal, but then I also thought buying into Chateau World was a great deal and now my membership is worthless. There is more information on the website Welcome to the Inn of the Rockies Resort & Spa and the people behind the resort is Phil Lutzko and Scott Brayshawof Paradise Real Estate Solutions, Vern Mazur of V.E.M. Management Limited, Andrea Spiess of OMC 101 Hospitality and La Velle Goodwin an ex-member.

[eal Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eal]

No, the people behind this harebrained idea are Crook, Crook and McCrook. You would be far better off finding out more about the class action suit that is brewing for Chateau World members and spending another dime!

[lavellegoodwin Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lavellegoodwin]

I think there has been some confusion

I suspect that some folks out there have confused CHEATauWorld (which is my website) with Chateau World- which was the scam. It is understandable.

This new project has nothing to do with Andre Muran, Chateau World or anyone who has ever had anything to do with any of them.

Keep in mind though, that people who were behind that scam do not like me- because they blame me for the demise of their racket (and we estimate they took in about $120 million over the course of their run in Canmore). A number of them, not just Andre Muran, but others who were part of that group, have a vested interest in the failure of this current project. If you had their mentality and a desire to do what you could to discredit me and put the project to bed- what would you do?

If I had their mentality and the vested interest they have, I would probably go on line and start posting that it was a scam, that La Velle Goodwin could not be trusted etc. etc...

My mother always says "Don't believe what people say- believe what they do"

Is it possible that some of these people (who don't like me) are posting various things to the web, which are entirely untrue, just to plant seeds of doubt? I, personally would say- ya, that is possible.

Nobody has any reason to accuse myself, Andrea Spiess, Phil Lutzko or Scott Brayshaw of being crooks or of orchestrating a new scam. Each and every one of us is squeeky clean. Not one of us has a history of unethical business practices or scammy behaviour. (that is just one reason I agreed to support them and endorse the project)

Now, I am not sure how anyone can reconcile the idea that I am in cahoots with Chateau World or Andre Muran.

My guess is that people who are posting such garbage are in fact Andre Muran minions or, were at some time.

Or perhaps these people are not aware that I spent the last 7 years volunteering my spare time toward warning consumers against becoming involved with Chateau World or Andre Muran.

Perhaps they are not aware that I personally provided Service Alberta with all of the evidence they needed to file 125 criminal charges agaisnt Andre Muran and his companies in 2006. (go check it out- google 125 criminal charges Andre Muran)

Perhaps they are not aware that I have personally supported, literally hundreds upon hundreds of Chateau World victims by way of information and support as they worked their way through the confusion that was Royal Club International and RCI.

Perhaps they are unaware that my website is used by numerous investigative offices who are looking into Andre Muran and Chateau World.

Perhaps they are unaware that I have spent hours being interviewed by investigators for Service Alberta and the Alberta Law Society in support of their investigations into the fraud and mortgage frauds that were perpetrated.

Perhaps they are not aware that I have personally facilitated the current class action on behalf of former Chateau World members against Travelers Acceptance and Crelogix- and I even wrote the Statement of Claim for that action.

I have done all of these things because I feel a moral, social and civic responsibility to do something about it and to do what I can to help and to warn others.

I have never asked anyone for a dime. I have financed the websites that exist as a warning for consumers for years- I have kept them up and done what I can to ensure victims of the scam could find them.

Don't believe what I say- believe what I do, and recognize that just because someone posts something to the net does not make it true.

Anyone- including Andre Muran and anyone who is/was part of that scam can go on line, set up a profile using any fake name and claim to be a former Chateau World member. Any one of them can say "I did research and it is a scam"... Ok- where is the research? Can you prove what you say?

The answer is no, they can't prove it- because it is not true.

If you want information about the new project, we have laid everything out bare at Welcome to the Inn of the Rockies Resort & Spa

Have your accountant and lawyer and judge friends check it out- it is legit.

(I checked it out very carefully before agreeing to endorse it- because I feel a sense of duty to the former victims of Chateau World to work and act in their best interest)

If you want to see if I really spent the last 7 years shutting the scam down and helping victims, please visit Chateau World, Elevations Resort & Andre Muran and CHEATauWorld Forum

And if you have questions, rather than believe a faceless posting on the internet, why not check it out and see what the real deal is?

If anyone has any questions they would like to ask me, my email is contact@CHEATauWorld.ca

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

If the word rental comes up . . .

Just as a general rule, anyone pitching any form of rental is a no go. It's like promising to sell something you can't show. Or worse, this is like a listing fee greater than $200. It's like promising to liquidate but not buy. It's an automatic red flag.

This is not to say that some places don't have great rental programs. The Newport BayClub comes to mind. However, the initial presentation should be about vacations and vacationing only. I am fired more salespeople for this infraction than any other.

Based on what you told us, I'd have to say walk.

[lavellegoodwin Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lavellegoodwin]

Just as a general rule, anyone pitching any form of rental is a no go. It's like promising to sell something you can't show. Or worse, this is like a listing fee greater than $200. It's like promising to liquidate but not buy. It's an automatic red flag.

This program has nothing to do with rentals... so... why would you say walk?

Folks here are making all kinds of judgements without having a clue what we are doing

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I've encountered some similar situations in my life. In thinking about them I adopted the following attitude.

Real estate is a specialized market, and those who know the market have an advantage over those who don't. So, when someone who knows the market presents an offer to me, it almost dead certain that said offer is going to benefit them a lot more than it is going to benefit me.

So when I get an offer such as yours, my inclination almost always is to do the opposite. That approach has served me well over the years.

[eal Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eal]

YEGOiler,

"This program has nothing to do with rentals... " according to lavellegoodwin's last post. So there is no intention to manage and rent out the unit, as you were told according to your first post.

[lavellegoodwin Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lavellegoodwin]

No, the people behind this harebrained idea are Crook, Crook and McCrook. You would be far better off finding out more about the class action suit that is brewing for Chateau World members and spending another dime!

Eal, this is the second post I have seen where you are calling me a crook. Would you mind sharing with the group what grounds you have for making that allegation?

La Velle

[lavellegoodwin Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lavellegoodwin]

I've encountered some similar situations in my life. In thinking about them I adopted the following attitude.

Real estate is a specialized market, and those who know the market have an advantage over those who don't. So, when someone who knows the market presents an offer to me, it almost dead certain that said offer is going to benefit them a lot more than it is going to benefit me.

So when I get an offer such as yours, my inclination almost always is to do the opposite. That approach has served me well over the years.

You are free to operate on that assumption. Many people do. It will protect you from any bad deals to be sure... it will also protect you from any good ones that might truly benefit you. One thing is for certain, if you operate on that assumption then you will never know if or when you missed a good one.

I will tell you this though- the people behind this project are not benefitting more than the people who buy in- not by a long shot.

The details of what benefits go to the people behind the project and the benefits to those who buy in are all clearly spelled out in the information meetings. If folks think it is wrong or unfair- they will not participate in the takeover. And those who think it is good and fair will.

Unless folks on this board have been to one of the meetings- they really have no oppinion to express that is not based on pure assumption.

[lavellegoodwin Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lavellegoodwin]

YEGOiler,

"This program has nothing to do with rentals... " according to lavellegoodwin's last post. So there is no intention to manage and rent out the unit, as you were told according to your first post.

For the people who buy a fraction of the resort- they will be co-resort owners. They will not be renting anything. That statement is true.

They, as owners, have the option to rent out their property- like the owners of any hotel or resort does for a profit- That is also true.

My statement that the program has nothing to do with rentals was in reference to the project- which is for fractional ownership- not rentals.

Did you really misunderstand? Or are you trying to twist it intentionally?

visit my website Chateau World, Elevations Resort & Andre Muran

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

I distinctly read "rent/manage"

Whether rentals are part of the program or not, if the word "rental" in any way enters the presentation, even as a side note, the proper guidance is walk.

If you cannot sell the product as a clean vacation strategy or if you feel the need to list every freaking thing it can do, even the ones you may never use, it's not constructed well.

[lavellegoodwin Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lavellegoodwin]

YEGOiler,

"This program has nothing to do with rentals... " according to lavellegoodwin's last post. So there is no intention to manage and rent out the unit, as you were told according to your first post.

Don't twist my words Eal- for the people participating in the project, they are not renting anything themselves. As co-resort owners, they will be able to rent out to the general public just as hotels and resorts do.

It is strange to me that you would, without cause, call me a crook, and try so hard to undermine this effort... are you someone who has a vested interest in this project failing?

CHEATauWorld.ca