The Timeshare Tourniquet

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Some are already for sale. I've seen several of these out there. Converted timeshare units?

http://springfield.craigslist.org/reb/4440464234.html

It took awhile, but it's nice for this thread to involve people knowing what they're talking about, and relating.

The Oaks is the very first section of condos built, on the first left hand turn (Oak Lane) after you come through the security gate. The Stonebridge Village Condominiums office, and check-in, is located right across from them.

I don't know exactly how they were sold, but I do know that they are, or have been, used by Escapes! for exchanges, or rentals, and they are lockoffs. I do know they were, at least some of them, sold on the Nightly Rental Investment scam, as were the Fairway Villas ands the Lodges. Each time a new area of the Nightly Rental Investment condos was opened up, the developer dropped the last section from the program from rentals, so owners had to fend for themselves. A guy I golf with, who is now on The Fairways COA, got involved with SBV by buying a Nightly Rental Program condo is the Fairways. He said the promise was that if rentals were not as much as payments during the year, the develop would pay the owner the difference. He did until he decided not to, just like everything else he has done Branson.

I could say much more, but not on an open forum.

Anyway, The Oaks are not the timeshares that I am aware of. Those are the 600# units, the Golf Villas, and the 700# units, the second right after you come in the gate. The first right is the County's 911 center. Having looked at buying something in the Oaks awhile back, before acquiring the Golf Villas, I'm 99% certain they had their own COA at that time.

One of the guys that I almost gave one of our weeks to a couple years ago owned in The Oaks, and was very sour because they had said he would get golf if he bought there. He contacted me when that was not true. By the time he got to me, he was so confused from being lied to that I could not get him straightened.

I notice the ad does not promise golf and does not mention maintenance fees, just POA and COA.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

It took awhile, but it's nice for this thread to involve people knowing what they're talking about, and relating.

The Oaks is the very first section of condos built, on the first left hand turn (Oak Lane) after you come through the security gate. The Stonebridge Village Condominiums office, and check-in, is located right across from them.

I don't know exactly how they were sold, but I do know that they are, or have been, used by Escapes! for exchanges, or rentals, and they are lockoffs. I do know they were, at least some of them, sold on the Nightly Rental Investment scam, as were the Fairway Villas ands the Lodges. Each time a new area of the Nightly Rental Investment condos was opened up, the developer dropped the last section from the program from rentals, so owners had to fend for themselves. A guy I golf with, who is now on The Fairways COA, got involved with SBV by buying a Nightly Rental Program condo is the Fairways. He said the promise was that if rentals were not as much as payments during the year, the develop would pay the owner the difference. He did until he decided not to, just like everything else he has done Branson.

I could say much more, but not on an open forum.

Anyway, The Oaks are not the timeshares that I am aware of. Those are the 600# units, the Golf Villas, and the 700# units, the second right after you come in the gate. The first right is the County's 911 center. Having looked at buying something in the Oaks awhile back, before acquiring the Golf Villas, I'm 99% certain they had their own COA at that time.

One of the guys that I almost gave one of our weeks to a couple years ago owned in The Oaks, and was very sour because they had said he would get golf if he bought there. He contacted me when that was not true. By the time he got to me, he was so confused from being lied to that I could not get him straightened.

I notice the ad does not promise golf and does not mention maintenance fees, just POA and COA.

Here's the answer, showing all the COAs and the POA. The timeshares are separate, DBA Stonebridge Village Condominiums, and are not listed here:

http://content.remax-midstates.com/d...1107100352.pdf

The couple mentioned, Sandra and John Ahrens, have been there from the start, and are still there. When we've played golf, he told me that Cooper turned it over to the property owners way too soon, and they had to decide to just bail or make a go of it. There has always been a rocky relationship between the developer and the POA. Right now, with a couple thousand undeveloped acres with the infrastructure in place, there is no developer.

That shows 1013 full owners of condos, houses and lots. Several times I've heard 6000 timeshare owners, including when the Board member called me.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Now that I think about it, I do recall that one of the options of owners in The Oaks has been, and I believe still is, to give up weeks there for weeks elsewhere in the Escapes Travel Club network, and what remains of it, which still seems to be operating.

That fact is the biggest thing that has caused confusion among owners in the Golf Villas, that Escapes? Points/ETC owners in The Golf Villas are different than deeded weeks owners, even though their ownership is tied to a deeded week.

When Escapes! disappeared, the lawsuit ensued, and Festiva started contacting all owners saying they were part of Festiva, is when the HOA board needed to step in and clear the muddied water. For us, that was December, 2013, when the Escapes! website where we always paid our fees, and our account online, had disappeared.

I also personally know the people at Vacation Rentals in Town Center at Bella Vista, who were handling our annual payments, so I was shocked that that had disappeared, and even more shocked when no one would answer my questions.

Why not? What was being hid, or avoided, and what is wrong with providing basic information.

http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...scape!-Resorts

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I'm giving this a try:

Dear Friendly-to-Me Resort GM:

In a recent message you mentioned something possibly forthcoming to help owners who no longer wish to own their weeks.


We bought our first ISC week in 1992, a foreclosure from Elk Horn Realty. We bought two more from the Quiet Title action in 1999-2000. So, we have done our part in picking up weeks that were unproductive to the Association, and we have been loyal in keeping our account current.


We have been pleased with our ownership and have been able to exchange or rent our weeks for quite a long time. We have no grudge or ill will toward the resort.


However, as you know, there comes time when all good things must end. As we are now "retired", with both winter and summer home, our limited finances need to be directed toward maintaining them. We no longer can afford frivolous expenses.


All we wish to do is return our three weeks to, essentially, where they came from, and let the Association use them for rental income or, perhaps, to another owner. We own two consecutive Spring Break ski weeks, and a peak summer vacation week, and they have always been valued by the exchange companies, We wish to do this in order to save the resort the expense, anguish, and ugliness of litigation, and we are willing to pay the 2015 maintenance fees, to give you ample time to do something with them.


Thanks for your consideration.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

They haven't just jumped right on that, so I resent the message.
- - - - - -
As I have tried to explain on this forum, the problem is much larger than me and a handful of timeshare lovers on an internet forum. All evidence is that it appears to be a problem that could put the existence of timesharing in jeopardy. Logically, then, you would expect the ones who should be most concerned, and most involved in seeking a solution, would be those who desire to see their resorts continue. Those who get out, however they accomplish that, will be, well, gone and not concerned.

Being critical of me, for being the messenger here, for attempting to portray things as they are, or to add balance where there was none, does nothing to solve the problem.

Many other than me are tossing around terms like deedback, conversion, downsizing, etc.

With ARDA hype, it's hard to get true numbers in the US, but that is not the case in Europe/UK:

The Timeshare Consumers' Association (TCA) estimates that as many as half the 1.5 million timeshares in Europe are being kept "under duress".

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...-for-life.html

Could it be that even RCI, in their own minute way, is trying to respond to the state of things:

• In response to customer demand, a series of new short-term and trial ownerships are being brought into the marketplace so you can now sample the timeshare lifestyle without making a lifetime commitment right away - See more at: http://www.rci.com/pre-rci-en_GB/lea....KEqsJgMS.dpuf

One can only guess how many out of the 5 million-ish timeshare owners in the US are paying under duress and threats from their resorts, certainly a tactic that will not serve the industry well in the long run and pretty much sums up the status of timesharing today.

The industry is where it is because the industry did what it did they way it did it. Much like the economic recession, when the bubble burst it was a big burst, and real values (lack thereof) was all that was left.

When the student's ready, the teacher will appear.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

So you consider this to be true numbers: The Timeshare Consumers' Association (TCA) estimates that as many as half the 1.5 million timeshares in Europe are being kept "under duress".

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

So you consider this to be true numbers: The Timeshare Consumers' Association (TCA) estimates that as many as half the 1.5 million timeshares in Europe are being kept "under duress".

You (and I) have timeshared long enough to know that there is nothing related to the industry that one can believe.

But, at least in the UK/Europe someone appears to be trying to peel off the layers.

How many weeks do you still own?
- - - - - -
rikkis_playpen:

If the property has no resale value (and many do not!)..

http://community.lawyers.com/forums/t/89938.aspx
- - - - - -
The 2011 operating expenses for my timeshare took a substantial leap. The major players were management fees, administrative costs, and a new category, uncollectable accounts. The latter was assesed at $150 for my week alone. How is this an operating expense in the budget? Could it be possible to leagally attack the budget of these companies? Wouldn't this be like the bank trying to raise my mortgage payment because they made bad loans to others? Any insight would be appreciated.

http://community.lawyers.com/forums/t/89938.aspx

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

A similar, common situation, posted on another site:

Own Wyndham Nashville and will give away 189,000 points to someone who will take it off our hands and pay transfer fee. Am retiring and not able to travel.

[rapmarks Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close rapmarks]

A similar, common situation, posted on another site:

Own Wyndham Nashville and will give away 189,000 points to someone who will take it off our hands and pay transfer fee. Am retiring and not able to travel.

I would have grabbed that, as we pass through there two times a year and enjoy the place.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I would have grabbed that, as we pass through there two times a year and enjoy the place.

Since it was just posted, you most likely can have it.

http://www.redweek.com/forums/messag..._content=topic

[ronparise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ronparise]

Since it was just posted, you most likely can have it.

http://www.redweek.com/forums/messag..._content=topic

Wyndham points are actually a bad example. There is now a pretty active market for Wyndham points ownerships....almost everything sells. Some of the high mf resorts dont sell for much, but they do sell. And the rumor is that one of the biggest buyers is Wyndham itself.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

Wyndham points are actually a bad example. There is now a pretty active market for Wyndham points ownerships....almost everything sells. Some of the high mf resorts dont sell for much, but they do sell. And the rumor is that one of the biggest buyers is Wyndham itself.

LOL - I'm just not seeing it. Here's eBay's completed listings. Yes, some of the high point contracts are selling for something, but everything else is less than $100 or not sold at all. If Wyndham's involved they sure are hiding that fact.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...dmd=1&_ipg=200

[ronparise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ronparise]

LOL - I'm just not seeing it. Here's eBay's completed listings. Yes, some of the high point contracts are selling for something, but everything else is less than $100 or not sold at all. If Wyndham's involved they sure are hiding that fact.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...dmd=1&_ipg=200

It seems that we are drawing different conclusions from the same evidence.

What you posted is exactly what I would have posted to make my case...nearly everything sold (less than $100 is still a sale) I didnt look at all the ones that didnt sell but some were terminated because they sold away from ebay, and some didnt sell because the seller had stripped points out of them (first use is 2015, but the buyer is expected to pay mf now, and closing costs) or because they are simply asking too much. I spoke to one guy that has several there that didnt sell. I called to tell him he was asking to much and to make an offer. What he told me is that he put a high price on them because he really didnt want to sell. He was just testing the market. (turns out a penny a point is still to much for even the best contracts.

The smaller, high mf contracts may have to be listed for a doller, and the seller may have to pay all the closing and transfer costs. And they may have to be relisted once or twice....but they will sell. ....at least thats what I see.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

It seems that we are drawing different conclusions from the same evidence.

Could be. I see what your perspective. I'm not convinced though. Doesn't look any better or worse than a few years ago. What's interesting is I just recently gave away my Wyndham points (several contracts) - and we split the closing costs. However, it did cost me about $1000 to "give" them away. Those are Wyndham points, I can't imagine being stuck with all the MF's and contracts that JLB has.

I've got a summer week at Stonebridge that I'll probably look at giving away this Fall. I'll probably have to pay a year of MF's to do that and include closing costs. I can definitely relate (and sympathize) to the issues that JLB has raised here about no "exit strategy". And then it's got to be 10 times worse for blue week owners.

And now you all see why I've chosen to rent instead of buying for my future use needs. I really don't want to be bogged down with a potential anchor tied to my neck for the rest of my life.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Could be. I see what your perspective. I'm not convinced though. Doesn't look any better or worse than a few years ago. What's interesting is I just recently gave away my Wyndham points (several contracts) - and we split the closing costs. However, it did cost me about $1000 to "give" them away. Those are Wyndham points, I can't imagine being stuck with all the MF's and contracts that JLB has.

I've got a summer week at Stonebridge that I'll probably look at giving away this Fall. I'll probably have to pay a year of MF's to do that and include closing costs. I can definitely relate (and sympathize) to the issues that JLB has raised here about no "exit strategy". And then it's got to be 10 times worse for blue week owners.

And now you all see why I've chosen to rent instead of buying for my future use needs. I really don't want to be bogged down with a potential anchor tied to my neck for the rest of my life.

In case you haven't inquired yet, and missed it in Fine Kettle, SBV charges a $350 transfer fee if to a non-family member. My research indicates that the transfer fee for those who really are with Festiva now is $1700.

I've got a "Guest" family checking in to our Week 28 Saturday. I get $499, the most I've ever gotten . . . ($650 fee). My guests also get $25 golf at the $100 golf other place I'm at.

There's been no demand at all for our Weeks 10 and 17. I mighta gotten $300 a time or too. 10's a little early, but 17 is getting to be kinda busy here.