General Questions about Buying TS

[activia Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close activia]

I'm looking to buy a TS for the first time and am trying to get educated on how to find a good deal on one in the resale market. I'm thinking I should buy one around where I live..so that would be on the Cape & Islands, Block Island, (NH, VT, CT, NY) lake or ski resort area, Berkshire's, or NYC. All of these places I have been, a lot I've been again in the last couple of year. Some destinations that I really want to go and most haven't been or I went with the family a long time ago: Colorida & Utah for mt. biking & Skiing, Vegas, California, Hawii, Virgin Islands, Italy, France, England, and Australia. For now it would just be mostly for my bf(25) and I(23) and maybe some friends or dad sometimes and maybe my small sis(5) and bro(3) sometimes. Later on, with the family (I'm only planning on having 2 kids). I don't really have lots of expendable income so I'm looking for good value, and 2 weeks a year would be plenty, 1 to start would even work fine! I basically, like most, would love to be able to vacation every year or almost every year without breaking the bank and being able to see the world.

I know each of these should probably be it's own thread and it's a lot of info to ask but I just had to get these questions off my mind. I'm looking for more general guidance in the right direction to finding the information I need to research further besides just scanning through thousands or more posts.

1) How can you find out what true market value is of a TS?

2) Where do you find out popularity of a resort and reviews?

3) Where should you look to buy?

4) What should you be careful of when buying from one of these places?

5) What about if you just want to use someone's week and pay a "rental" fee?

6) Which is better RCI or II? Disadv. or adv. to both?

7) Do you really get good airline prices and travel discounts from RCI? What about II?

8) How can you really find out your trading power? What kind of exchanges can you expect to receive? If I want to go to "popular" destination A during "prime" time B with either A, b, C of a 5 * resort, what kind of trading power do I need and how can I find a TS with this kind of trading power? Is there anyway I can see examples without being and RCI or II member?

For example, I saw this one on ebay yesterday: http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-FLORIDA-2...QQcmdZViewItem How do I know if this really had good trading power or not?

9) Do you know any good resources besides this forum I can start learning more about TS?

10) What are the adv. and disadv. to using TS and how can most the disadv. be overcome?

11) Anything else that a newbie should know just starting out?


I'll continue to look through the forum for more information also.

Thanks in advance! I appreciate the time you are spending to help me out and give me your words of wisdom.
- Activie *Newbie*

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

First welcome!! You have done the smartest thing possible, which is learning about Timesharing (TS) before buying one.

1) How can you find out what true market value is of a TS?

To find that out I'd look on websites which sell alot of timeshares.
1. Ebay- look at completed autions
2. WWW.redweek.com
3. Ask here for some advice.
4. Many other websites to many to mention.


Also, Hotel backed TS tend to be much more expensive than non hotel backed. So 2 TS in Williamsburg, the Marriott TS will be 3-5 times more than a similar TS not backed by a hotel chain.

2) Where do you find out popularity of a resort and reviews?

This website is just started our resort reviews and should over time have a good idea of popularity, but currently www.tug2.net has the largest consumer rated TS database.

3) Where should you look to buy?

Ebay will likely be the best and cheapest starting point for most people. But, it depends on what you want to buy. There are many website which have specials on certain types of TS. (Example www.redseasons.com is a big worldmark (trendwest) reseller but has few offering of other TS.) So after you narrow down your choices ask again.

4) What should you be careful of when buying from one of these places?

The biggest thing about buying a TS is that you need to trust the company holding the money and doing the closings. It doesn't matter if you're buying from someone who is little shady, if the company holding the money doesn't give it to them until after everything is verified and transferred.

5) What about if you just want to use someone's week and pay a "rental" fee?

Many people feel that renting is a very good choice. For every TS for sale on a website like www.redweek.com , there are also multiple listings of people trying to rent their week.

6) Which is better RCI or II? Disadv. or adv. to both?

Way to big of question to answer on this thread.

7) Do you really get good airline prices and travel discounts from RCI? What about II?

NO!!

8) How can you really find out your trading power? What kind of exchanges can you expect to receive? If I want to go to "popular" destination A during "prime" time B with either A, b, C of a 5 * resort, what kind of trading power do I need and how can I find a TS with this kind of trading power? Is there anyway I can see examples without being and RCI or II member?

For example, I saw this one on ebay yesterday: http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-FLORIDA-2...QQcmdZViewItem How do I know if this really had good trading power or not?

The auction ended with no one bidding. Does that mean that the TS is worth $0 I don't think so, but remember that when you buy in addition to the price, you have to pay for closings and often the 2007 maintance fees.

9) Do you know any good resources besides this forum I can start learning more about TS?

For general TS questions this is a great place. TUG is also very helpful. For questions about 1 specific TS company there are many other user groups just for that one company (like disney, Worldmark, Fairfield ect..)

10) What are the adv. and disadv. to using TS and how can most the disadv. be overcome?

Buying and staying in a TS is much more like renting an apartment than staying in a hotel. If you planning on eating out all the time and spending little or no time at the unit maybe you'd do better with a hotel. But, if having 3 times more space and a full kitchen sound good, than TS is the best way.

11) Anything else that a newbie should know just starting out?

You done the first thing right, Get informed before buying. There is NEVER a offer that is too good that you can't pass it by. Take your time and you'll alway be able to find a good buy, but selling something you made a mistake in buying can be tough.

Lastly, Most everyone here will give you this word of advice "BUY RESELL"

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

(2) the popularity of a resort depends on supply and demand, mostly the latter. Where supply is high, like Orlando with around 100 resort several of which are mamoth sized, only certain times of the year get full occupancy. Season is important, but the 3 color system leaves out the variances within the color groups. Another important factor is resort quality-high quality is more popular. Rated resorts are usually the best, but some unrated resorts are just about as good (one I know doesn't want the scrutiny or pressure a rated resort gets). Quality is a strange thing though, as exchange companies usually will not let you downgrade to much lower quality without you agreeing not to complain about it and exchanging upwards is often not possible.
As you can see by now there is a lot to answer from each of the questions and I'm out of finger strength. One more thing tho, I once got a pretty good airfare deal through RCI, tho they mostly are more expensive than other sources.

[Sydney Contributor - Bronze Find all posts View Profile Close Sydney]

Just a few thoughts.

When you see a timeshare you like, ask around to see if others have any knowledge or experience with it. They be happy to give you their thoughts on its value and popularity. Besides TUG, the RCI directory has reviews on some resorts so check them out as well. We also have a review section which is small at the moment (literally just started) but check it just in case someone's done one on the resort you are interested in.

If you want to rent weeks, look in the classifieds here and on TUG. Other places to try are Skyauction, CondoDirect and RCI Holiday Network. There are more and hopefully others will chime in.

It is not a great idea IMO to join up with RCI if you are only going to exchange every few years or so as they charge you a yearly membership fee, then an exchange fee, cancellation fees, guest certifcate fees and so on. They can really add up and make your affordable timeshare holiday not so affordable. Cancellation fees are a high probaility as to get the exchange you want with RCI, you generally have to book over a year in advance, which means your plans could change and you may need to cancel. So only use RCI if you feel you will get your money's worth. The same goes for II. Owning more than one timeshare will diute the cost somewhat but since you're new at this, it's best to start out small.

If you buy where you want to go and then only exchange once every few years, you can join up with an independent exchange company or two which do not charge yearly fees and just pay when you exchange. This will also give you access ot their bonus weeks (last minute rentals). Not all independents have free yearly membership so you have to check them out and decide which one suits you, particularly since some specialise in certain areas. Like HTSE specialises in Hawaii, etc. Just ask on this site when you are doing your more indepth research about exchange companies. Most of the independents also have a forum on this TSFM where you can ask them direct questions.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

1st a suggestion

You may want to look at different mini system (FF, BG, ...) that has resorts cover the area you mentioned. Just go to RCI website or II website and look at the resorts in that area, you will find out.

And since you just start, try a point system (not RCI point) with enough points to cover the area you mentioned 1 BD at the prime season 1 wk, so if late on your travel style change, you can still be able to handle it using those points or just to rent some points from owner without go through exchange (you can go through exchange companies if you choice too). You can ge 2 BD either through exchange or internally pick a shoulder season or just wek day only if you need. At this moment, unless either one of you are teacher, you should be flexible enough to ejoy the point. Just look at the info about diffeent point system to make sure youcan handle them.

I will thought your first priority is to buy a house, so you should try to make sure you don't get something like TS that will force a constant expense. But, if you like travel, it is O.K.

Jya-Ning

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I will thought your first priority is to buy a house, so you should try to make sure you don't get something like TS that will force a constant expense. But, if you like travel, it is O.K.

Jya-Ning

Jya Ning makes an excellent point. But whatever you do, don't you EVER sign another loan for a timeshare, EVER.
I mean, Please

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

JMHO for Q1

Wow, you are right, it maybe easier to split your questions. I maybe over my head, but this is JMHO.

1) How can you find out what true market value is of a TS?

I believe the market is supported by 1) what you can/willing to afford 2) what the value of that week to you 3) what the particular seller want/have to get 4) what the people that goes to that market likely willing to sell 5) what the people that goes that market willing to buy.

There are serveral different market, eBay is one that you can see the final accept price. Retail is the one that you usually will get no information at all.
Local resell agent you will see the asking price by sellers. Bidshare you may see the price the owner think they need to get. Each maket will be different.

You can only control #1 & #2, so you need to find out what you can/willing to afford. And you have to assess each week to see the likelyhood you can use it (by yourself, by exchange, by renting it out, by exchange to some point system) and what is the chance you will be able to sell it. The more way you can use it, the more value it is to you. You need to make sure you be honest to yourself and see different possibility and realize some situation may seldomly happen. The one that most likely to happen will be more value to you. And it will be equal to your max afford value, otherwise you need to reduce your max afford value accordingly.

I believe each person has different way to determine how much they can/want afford. Each has certain reason behind it. I believe I know several
1) got to have it, there is no reason, you just try to satisfy your own emotion
2) got to beat the lowest price I can find. It is gaming.
3) Will be O.K. if you pay less or equal to the avg. price the market you visit.
4) Set a limit for the travel lodge cost per year, then use the formula
Purchase price + Closing cost + MF * X <= lodging cost * X
Most people use 10 year, so X will be 10. Some people add opportunity cost, some people add inflation rate. This is assume if you loss all the money when you sell, you can still cover. Or you want to be able to return your purchase through the saving in X years.
5) (potential rental income - MF) / purchase price > certain ratio, this is for rental model
6) (Potential selling price - potential ad & holding cost) / purchase price > certain ratio, this is for flipping
Or
Look at your cash, and that is the max purchase price you can afford.

Good luck

Jya-Ning

[Arline Member Find all posts View Profile Close Arline]

Other independent trading companies we have used, that do not charge an annual membership fee, include Dial An Exchange: http://www.daelive.com and Trading Places International: http://www.tradingplaces.com .

[kalpna Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kalpna]

Thank you

I am looking at buying a TS for my husband's birthday and giving it to him as a gift and I am afraid to make a "Wrong Choice". I thank Activia for asking such good questions and rest of you for giving sharing your thoughts and experience.

I am looking in Southern California area, hopefully something within driving distance from home so we can go when we don't want to exchanges. We have a 8 month old baby now so traveling has become more difficult. Any suggestions for me as to what and where I should buy?

I am thinking about Capistrano Surfside Inn but one of the agent suggested Winners circle, which is the same price but not across from beach.

1) Any thoughts or suggestions on these two properties or any other one I should consider also?

2) I am getting a good price on 1 BR but Should I pay more to get a 2 bedroom to be able to exchange better?

Thank you so much in advance.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

I am thinking about Capistrano Surfside Inn but one of the agent suggested Winners circle, which is the same price but not across from beach.

1) Any thoughts or suggestions on these two properties or any other one I should consider also?

2) I am getting a good price on 1 BR but Should I pay more to get a 2 bedroom to be able to exchange better?

Thank you so much in advance.

Are you buying privately or buying it from the Resort Developer?

[kalpna Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kalpna]

buying it privately via RII. I also forgot to ask another question,

4) Should I buy a TS or points or trvel club membership? Which is financially better and more convenient?

5) I was told that TS is not a good real estate because it depreciates in value. I wasn't looking at it that way but more as a travel getaway at less cost. Don't most timeshares loose their value over time?

Thanks.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

Kalpna, I own weeks and like that system. Some buy points and do well with that system. I have noticed that with points you have more freedom but it requires a lot more work and they seem to be changing the points grid.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

buying it privately via RII. I also forgot to ask another question,

4) Should I buy a TS or points or trvel club membership? Which is financially better and more convenient?

5) I was told that TS is not a good real estate because it depreciates in value. I wasn't looking at it that way but more as a travel getaway at less cost. Don't most timeshares loose their value over time?

Thanks.

Like Frank, I own weeks. Have been considering points, but haven't taken the plunge yet as I'm just not ready to learn a new system. There is a points discussion forum called All Points Here that you can peruse for starters.

I think your analysis about less expensive travel as opposed to real estate investment is right on.

[eal Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close eal]

I would suggest buying a weeks timeshare first; if you like it and can spend some time managing them, you might want to look at points as well.

Be sure to check out holidaygroup.com and ebay.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

4) Should I buy a TS or points or trvel club membership? Which is financially better and more convenient?

Where is 3)?

Don't know anything in that area at all. so can not give you any advise there. Just make sure you know what you get, and you like it there.

One of the reason I tell people to buy point system as their 1st choice is because it is very hard to know what you really want from TS. It is not some experience everyone know already. And each one is different, so really can not say which resort/week/unit size is good for you. Point gives you ability to explore it so you know what you like best and adjust with life changes.

Most travel club type of membership are not good. the only exception is probably WorldMark. They are point type membership although the club do hold all the property.

5) I was told that TS is not a good real estate because it depreciates in value. I wasn't looking at it that way but more as a travel getaway at less cost. Don't most timeshares loose their value over time?

Not true. As travel gateway, these are the few selections I can think
1) visit friends/family and stay at their place
2) take a tour from some travel agent company
3) take a point program that including a hotel chain
4) renting (hotel, bed/breakfest, owner)
5) TS
6) fraction
7) destination club
8) condotel
9) 2nd home

I even see some travel club deal (most are scam), you can use campground or a trailer, but that probably not common.

Few of them does not loss value at all (2nd home). TS wise, some brand may not loss value if you purchase from developer in the construction time and the developer has ROFR. Most value is lost within first few years in the resell market. But if you purchase resell, there are quite a few you should not expect to loss value even if you have to sell it on eBay.

Jya-Ning