Maintenance Fees

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

You own to use, you watch and you take part

As one who has yet to buy a timeshare, the one thing that really makes me uneasy is the fact that I am agreeing to pay maintenance fees for as long as I own it. The MF is known at the time of purchase, but there is no guarantee it will remain at that amount in the future. There is no cap on fee increases and there is always the possiblity of a special assessment.

I understand that maintenance costs can vary widely depending on where the resort; is there a beachfront, golf course or other high maintenance amenities. This is especially true in Hawaii, an area we are very interested in.

How do you determine if the MF of a resort is appropriate?

Are there any resort chains that are especially good, or bad, in this category?

Thanks in advance,

Bob

No resort or chain can guarantee fees. Who can know what the cost of utilities will be in 5 years or ten? Who can say if storms will hit, if floods might occur, if there was shoddy construction underneath that great looking wall or roof?

You also have to realize that most developers under price fees - especially reserves that pay for the capital improvements and renovations - during the early years to make the sale easier. When a resort gets to be 10 years old and is (hopefully) under owner control you can often get a better idea of what the true ongoing costs will be.

Yes there could be special assessments or emergencies but you hope things are being funded properly over time. Again no one can guarantee that.

I just read somewhere a post that said their resort group (WorldMark I think) had so much money in reserves that they could suffer multi million dollar catastrophes and still not need a special assessment. Either they are reading the figures wrong, applying collections for multiple resorts to one resort or that group is collecting far too much from the owners. You want the right amount collected, perhaps a bit too much isn't a bad thing, but certainly not millions in unlikely to be needed funds. Something doesn't add up in that picture.

Again by owning a resort you plan to use and return to you can keep up with the conditions and if the finances are being handled well. You do tend to lose sight of those things if you belong to a mini-system which tends to be run by the developers. In those cases you have to have faith in the system and th operators. Given the history of timesharing that may be a risky thing to have.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

Be sure not to overlook the cost factor of people who do not pay their fair share. Guess who pays for the ones that don't pay mfs ? You do ! Also, the board can increase your amount just because they can. You are all ready fueling the big money machine and what are you going to do if you don't like the increase ? You are going to pay anyway. I have always felt that all owners should vote on issues concerning increasing costs. I don't trust a board to look out for me and my pocketbook. Owners do not have a voice.

Wrong. I ran for the board last year. I didn't get enuf votes, but as an owner, I was invited to run. Sat thru the board meeting, too, met the officers, etc.

Don't assume that you cannot participate.

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

I had a friend on the board where I used to own and he told me outright that they have to increase paying owners fees to cover for the ones that don't pay.
They would never let that out because that would fire people up but it DOES happen ! Just one of the dirty things about t/s ownership.
For me to "participate" would mean a vote from any owner who wishes to vote on matters that involve owner costs. For a bunch of guys and girls sitting around a table deciding how much money they need from me without informing me is just wrong. I don't trust them.
In short, the board can and will raise fees just because they can !

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Your Board is your voice

I had a friend on the board where I used to own and he told me outright that they have to increase paying owners fees to cover for the ones that don't pay.
They would never let that out because that would fire people up but it DOES happen ! Just one of the dirty things about t/s ownership.
For me to "participate" would mean a vote from any owner who wishes to vote on matters that involve owner costs. For a bunch of guys and girls sitting around a table deciding how much money they need from me without informing me is just wrong. I don't trust them.
In short, the board can and will raise fees just because they can !

You are absolutely correct that those who pay must cover the costs for those that do not. Does your resort have a line in the budget for "Bad Debt"? Then that is what it is costing your owners to cover those who do not pay their share.

It is up to your Association Board to minimize that number by doing everything possible to reduce delinquencies. They also need to assure that unpaid time does NOT get used by the owners but is offered as rental to recover at least some of the income. If done correctly the owners know they will not have use if they do not pay and will lose the unit if non-payment goes on very long.

You participate in the operation of your resort by electing your Board members. They speak for you. It would be nearly impossible to operate most timeshares or even condominiums if it required a vote of all owners to do anything. If you don't like the way your resort is run then vote out the Board and vote in a new group - maybe run for the unpaid spot if you really want to see how things operate and have a hand in it.

Now I realize that some resorts are loaded with Developer lackeys and they do in fact run roughshod over the individual owners. In those cases you have to decide if ownership there makes sense and, if so, if you want to fight to get control for the owners. It can be a heck of a battle but can be done.

One thing for sure just sitting back and saying nothing can be done or that all Boards/managements aren't doing whats best for the owners are false generalities. Many, maybe even most, Boards do the best they can and try to look out for the owners interests. That usually does not mean they never raise fees as it costs money to operate and maintain timeshares. Get involved and you'll learn just how much and why.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I had a friend on the board where I used to own and he told me outright that they have to increase paying owners fees to cover for the ones that don't pay.
They would never let that out because that would fire people up but it DOES happen ! Just one of the dirty things about t/s ownership.
For me to "participate" would mean a vote from any owner who wishes to vote on matters that involve owner costs. For a bunch of guys and girls sitting around a table deciding how much money they need from me without informing me is just wrong. I don't trust them.
In short, the board can and will raise fees just because they can !

How is that different than any product or service you buy in the country? The only way to prevent that is to buy a huge plot of land on an island, move there and grow your own food and catch your own fish.

If you don't choose that alternative, then you need to find a socialist country that will pay for all of your needs at the expense of those who actually do earn a living doing what they do. Or, you need to trust that those providing you products and services are trying to give you value for you money.

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

The fact that a board will tell an owner that they will have to lock them out unless they get current means NOTHING !!!!! By the time the owner gets that far behind they don't plan to use it anyway, it's no big deal to be locked out. They are saving that money to go on vacation somewhere else.
Resorts need to go after the slackers with lawyers that mean business and keep good owners from paying slacker fees. Check the statement at end of year and see how much is owed under bad dept. It's shocking!
The slackers should have to pay for the lawyer fees to boot! That would bring in the late bucks.
In todays world it would be nothing for owners to get a email from their resort with cost info. and an area for issues to vote on. CLICK, and it is done.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Sounds like your Board is not doing the job

The slackers should have to pay for the lawyer fees to boot! That would bring in the late bucks.

At a well run resort they do - and the process locks them out from the first day the fee is overdue, collections start in 60-90 days and the foreclosure process with the same year. There should be no free rides.

In todays world it would be nothing for owners to get a email from their resort with cost info. and an area for issues to vote on. CLICK, and it is done.

Not legal. Everything that a Board does must be with proper notice, with minutes, in public - there are no provisions in the law to have an electronic operation (yet). Now you could POLL the owners that way but it would not be binding only advisory. The ultimate control, by law, is with the Association Board as spelled out in the documents every resort must have to exist.

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

Thanks for the legal info.
I do think the feedback would be helpful to the resort. and maybe some do.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

Certainly there is nothing to be accomplished by remaining quiet and stewing. If you do not like how things are being done, you must speak up. It was mentioned previously that the board represents YOU. Contact the board members and discuss issues of importance to you. If you find indifference, VOTE EM OUT!

I would go to more owner meetings if they were geographically feasible, but I get an invite and it is my choice to not attend. If you can go to the meetings, Go. You might have ideas that have not been considered. You can ask questions to find out what is behind a special assessment or maint fee hike. You can learn a lot more about the people doing the voting on your behalf. No one has to remain in the dark unless they so choose.

I think there are certainly good and bad boards, good and bad owners. Likely a fair share of neutral parties. I'm pretty happy with how things are being done in my system - no nickel and diming, no annual rate hikes, regular communications, website with useful functionality, etc.

[shopgirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close shopgirl]

Our resorts do actively go after owners, at a cost of many thousands of dollars per year.

[Gigabyte Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Gigabyte]

MF's when buying resale

I'm new to all this but I've been reading a ton and I still need a few questions answered if someone can. I'm interested in a points based system and I'm mainly looking at Sunterra.
When a TS is listed on Ebay for 4000 points with MF's of $530 are these the actual MF's? I understand that I don't get into Club Sunterra when I buy resale so should I deduct the $151 or so from the advertised fee? And what is the $119 base fee? Is that only when I transfer in a deeded fixed week TS into the club? So when I'm looking at Ebay resale TS's for sunterra should I deduct $270 from the advertised MF's to come out with the 7.3cents/pt. It works on some of the ebay items but not most.
I hope my question was clear. thanks in advance. I don't mean to take over someone else's thread but my question seemed to fit with the topic


(In the interest of keeping answers in one place to assist the OP and membership, please answer this question here.)

[samiam Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close samiam]

Thanks for all the explanation of MFs. It always seemed high, until you all opened my eyes of the "hidden extras".

Sam