Timeshare Donation Dirty Little Secrets

[Donate@trejesto.com Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Donate@trejesto.com]

Response to Dr Rich's above thread -

First I would like to introduce myself, my name is Andria McDowell and I am the Donation Coordinator for “Trejesto Title Transfers”. We process timeshare donations for “Turpentine Creek Wildlife Refuge”. I have been processing donated timeshares for over 6 years and have helped hundreds of people whom wanted out from under their timeshare ownership.

I would like to address the above thread by Dr. Rich.

Dr. Rich stated:
First, why won’t the nonprofit organization (NPO) take you donation? Because they don’t want to be in the same position you’re in. It’s that simple. They know that if they take your timeshare, they will be hit will all those ownership fees and end up going broke trying to pay them. So this is what they do. They make sure your timeshare is one they KNOW will sell from the experience of their trusted broker. Next, they make sure it is all paid for including all current fees so there is no unexpected costs in the sale. Then they make sure you continue to hold title and be responsible for all the fees and expenses until they actually sell it. THEN they take title from you, hold it a few moments (usually less than 6 moments in all) and then sign it over to the actual buyer that wants it. That’s called a double closing and is perfectly legal. Finally, they give (or they should anyway) you the proper IRS form that states they received the timeshare from you as a donation and you can now deduct its value from your income as a donation.

My Response is:
The purpose of donating anything is to help, NOT HINDER the nonprofit organization (NPO). The sad truth is that the (NPO) does not have a miracle way to sale the timeshares that are donated; they have to use the same avenues that everyone else does. What this means is that if the timeshare you own does not have any value on the resale market (value here is based on demand) it is extremely hard to liquidate.


Dr. Rich stated:
1. If the property is transferred within 36 months of the original acceptance date of the property, the value used for the donation credit is defined as the actual money received by the NPO. That means your $20,000 timeshare, which they sold to $1,500 gets you $1,500 in credit. If you’re in a 20% tax bracket, that’s worth about $300 in cash back to you at tax time. Yah, that’s right, anytime in 36 months. On top of that, they have to notify the IRS of the true value they received. You can claim anything you want but when the IRS cross checks they’ll want that $3,700 over refund back with interest. Did I tell you anytime in 36 months? That’s right.
2. If you claim the deduction as more than $500 you have to use a special Form 8283 Noncash Charitable Contributions. If you claim more than $5,000 you must have a licensed appraiser do a licensed and sworn to appraisal AND sign the Form 8283, too. Now, if the NPO got $6,000 cash for it and can show you the cash receipt, you don’t need the appraisal, but that’s what you get to claim.
3. If the timeshare is NOT sold very quickly (think by the end of the year) you can try to claim a different way to evaluate the property but remember the 36 month window. If a sale price can not be used, the IRS says there are three ways to determine value. A.) What are similar properties selling for on the open market; B.) what is the income generation value if it is a commercial property that is rented MORE than 7 days a year; or C.) what would it cost to replace the timeshare? Only A.) and C.) apply. Guess who sells the majority of timeshares on the open market? The resort. In addition, they generally list the sale price on the title documents, especially if it’s being financed. Whereas, people like you and me usually don’t want to admit receiving any money for it. Here’s the problem. If the appraiser sets out to claim that you can’t sell it the same way or for the same price the resort can, he’s doing you a disservice and not doing his job right. There is no IRS policy, statement or regulation denoting differences in sales. They are all considered the same and each one has to be evaluated in it’s merits. Of course, if you can do the basic research yourself on a good number of those sales and present that information to the appraiser you might have a better chance to convince him to use the resort sales numbers. Next, you would have to give him some idea or how you could have sold it for close to the resort price if you’d wanted to (Don’t tell him list it on the Internet. He knows better.)

My Response is:
This is simply not true, Timeshares, when donated to a IRS 501(c)3 organization, are considered non-cash donations (IRS Tax Topic 506, website: Tax Topics - Topic 506 Contributions. The donor has the discretion in valuing the property for tax purposes, and yes, there are some more conservative donors who may choose to claim only the actual sale price, but it would be wiser to establish the Fair-Market-Value (FMV).

As you stated, many timeshares are sold retail, yet I believe more are being sold on the secondary market than what you are thinking. There are literally thousands of timeshares being resold using many venues that resale timeshares, (ex. Paper Media, Internet, Walk-in Auctions, Online Auctions, Walk-in resellers. Etc..) with that being said, it would be in the donors best interest to examine these markets to determine Fair-Market-Value (FMV), using retail value would be the LAST choice as any Tax Professional will tell you.

As far as the $5000.00 Tax Deduction Limit, this is stated as the limit without a professional appraisal that will be have to be attached with form 8283 when you submit your taxes. The cost of an appraisal normally would not justify the appraised value and personally I wish you good luck finding someone to appraise a timeshare.

Also, I believe the IRS Publication No. 561 Fair Market Value Determination goes into a few more options than you listed above, so If anyone is interested in researching it, visit publication: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p561.pdf.

***** Donating a timeshare is still a wonderful option for hundreds of timeshare owners. It allows them to get out from under their timeshares in a timely manner, does not cost them anything, they will not be out any further monies and in most cases, even though it may not liquidate for thousands of dollars, the nonprofit organization is happy with any sum.

[drkenrich Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drkenrich]

Wow, What a response!

I'm amazed at the number of responses my posting lead to. I actually thank everyone for your responses, whether positive or negative. It gives people an open forum to learn.

Is this a scam? No.
Is there a cost? Yes.
What does the donor get out of it? Several things.
Rid of their timeshare and all it's obligations
An immediate title transfer (does take the legal process time but there is no delay for trying to sell it first)
An honest donation credit
From that donation credit cash back on your tax return

I do not and will not try to imply that someone will be able to take their full purchase price or current resort price as a donation credit. It is not up to anyone except the donor as to what they write in as donation credit. I try to give them all the information they can have to make a judicious decision as to what credit to take. The purpose of the article was to enlighten people as to the possible consequences and process they must go through to claim credit and what to expect if they do.

The difference is that the timeshare is sat on by CHT for 36 months which forces the IRS to consider something other than the sale price as the value of the donation. That donation credit x your income tax bracket = what you will get back on your tax as either credit or a return. Here are the details.

If anyone sells the TS all you can take is the sale price
If it's not sold for 36 months you can:
Take up to $5,000 in credit without an appraisal and generally without audit from the IRS
Take up to as much as you paid for it but no more (risky)
Take the comparable information provided by research sources or done on your own to find out what the majority of sales have been priced at (usually by the resort); and
if it's more than $5,000 consider paying an appraiser to create a licensed appraisal and give the appraiser the provided research as an initial source of information to hopefully give you a better appraisal value,
get a different appraisal until you get a valuation you want (frankly I advise clients to negotiate with the appraiser, send a copy of the comparables we provide and ask the appraiser for a ballpark valuation BEFORE they contract and pay for the licensed appraisal), or
fall back to the $5,000 limit if it's not worth the appraisal cost.

Let's look at these options (not the sold price if it's held for 36 months).
If you take $5,000 without an appraisal and your in a 25% tax bracket that equals $1250 you get back at tax time. Subtract the $500 service fee and whatever closing costs there and you are getting out of your timeshare with no hassles, waiting for it to sell, and getting positive cash in your pocket at the same time.
If you can get an appraisal for more, every $1,000 gets you an additional $250.
An appraisal can cost you anywhere from $250 to $500 so do the math and see it it works for you.

Is this for everyone? No. If you own a luxury timeshare which is top of the market and selling well on the secondary market, you would be a fool to donate it. Sell it and donate the money instead. If, however, you've tried and can't find anyone interested and have already spent several hundreds of dollars unsuccessfully, consider what you can get through donation.

I greatly appreciate those who took the time to check further on the website instead of just declaring this a scam. Hopefully, anyone that reads it will find more information there than any other website dealing with donations and appreciate what it provides, whether just the information or the service. Fortunately, I do a lot of research before I ever work on anything and like to get my facts as correct as possible. Sometimes a posting on one location doesn't address all the issues because that would be too much to give all at once. If you review all I do you'll find I'm fairly consistent in the information I provide.

One key to consider in any donation is how soon will title actually transfer from you to someone else. The majority of cases boils down to when it is sold to a third buyer. Whether it's stated and a "hold and wait", "maintain your ownership", or an "authorized agent", they all boil down to the same thing. You keep it and all it's obligations until someone else buys it. The NPO doesn't take title until then, if ever. Read the site and you'll find CHT is sincerely and greatly different in taking title NOW and not putting the donor on hold.

Thank you,
Dr. Ken Rich

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

First I would like to introduce myself, my name is Andria McDowell and I am the Donation Coordinator for “Trejesto Title Transfers”. We process timeshare donations for “Turpentine Creek Wildlife Refuge”. I have been processing donated timeshares for over 6 years and have helped hundreds of people whom wanted out from under their timeshare ownership.

I would like to address the above thread by Dr. Rich.

Dr. Rich stated:
First, why won’t the nonprofit organization (NPO) take you donation? Because they don’t want to be in the same position you’re in. It’s that simple. They know that if they take your timeshare, they will be hit will all those ownership fees and end up going broke trying to pay them. So this is what they do. They make sure your timeshare is one they KNOW will sell from the experience of their trusted broker. Next, they make sure it is all paid for including all current fees so there is no unexpected costs in the sale. Then they make sure you continue to hold title and be responsible for all the fees and expenses until they actually sell it. THEN they take title from you, hold it a few moments (usually less than 6 moments in all) and then sign it over to the actual buyer that wants it. That’s called a double closing and is perfectly legal. Finally, they give (or they should anyway) you the proper IRS form that states they received the timeshare from you as a donation and you can now deduct its value from your income as a donation.

My Response is:
The purpose of donating anything is to help, NOT HINDER the nonprofit organization (NPO). The sad truth is that the (NPO) does not have a miracle way to sale the timeshares that are donated; they have to use the same avenues that everyone else does. What this means is that if the timeshare you own does not have any value on the resale market (value here is based on demand) it is extremely hard to liquidate.


Dr. Rich stated:
1. If the property is transferred within 36 months of the original acceptance date of the property, the value used for the donation credit is defined as the actual money received by the NPO. That means your $20,000 timeshare, which they sold to $1,500 gets you $1,500 in credit. If you’re in a 20% tax bracket, that’s worth about $300 in cash back to you at tax time. Yah, that’s right, anytime in 36 months. On top of that, they have to notify the IRS of the true value they received. You can claim anything you want but when the IRS cross checks they’ll want that $3,700 over refund back with interest. Did I tell you anytime in 36 months? That’s right.
2. If you claim the deduction as more than $500 you have to use a special Form 8283 Noncash Charitable Contributions. If you claim more than $5,000 you must have a licensed appraiser do a licensed and sworn to appraisal AND sign the Form 8283, too. Now, if the NPO got $6,000 cash for it and can show you the cash receipt, you don’t need the appraisal, but that’s what you get to claim.
3. If the timeshare is NOT sold very quickly (think by the end of the year) you can try to claim a different way to evaluate the property but remember the 36 month window. If a sale price can not be used, the IRS says there are three ways to determine value. A.) What are similar properties selling for on the open market; B.) what is the income generation value if it is a commercial property that is rented MORE than 7 days a year; or C.) what would it cost to replace the timeshare? Only A.) and C.) apply. Guess who sells the majority of timeshares on the open market? The resort. In addition, they generally list the sale price on the title documents, especially if it’s being financed. Whereas, people like you and me usually don’t want to admit receiving any money for it. Here’s the problem. If the appraiser sets out to claim that you can’t sell it the same way or for the same price the resort can, he’s doing you a disservice and not doing his job right. There is no IRS policy, statement or regulation denoting differences in sales. They are all considered the same and each one has to be evaluated in it’s merits. Of course, if you can do the basic research yourself on a good number of those sales and present that information to the appraiser you might have a better chance to convince him to use the resort sales numbers. Next, you would have to give him some idea or how you could have sold it for close to the resort price if you’d wanted to (Don’t tell him list it on the Internet. He knows better.)

My Response is:
This is simply not true, Timeshares, when donated to a IRS 501(c)3 organization, are considered non-cash donations (IRS Tax Topic 506, website: Tax Topics - Topic 506 Contributions. The donor has the discretion in valuing the property for tax purposes, and yes, there are some more conservative donors who may choose to claim only the actual sale price, but it would be wiser to establish the Fair-Market-Value (FMV).

As you stated, many timeshares are sold retail, yet I believe more are being sold on the secondary market than what you are thinking. There are literally thousands of timeshares being resold using many venues that resale timeshares, (ex. Paper Media, Internet, Walk-in Auctions, Online Auctions, Walk-in resellers. Etc..) with that being said, it would be in the donors best interest to examine these markets to determine Fair-Market-Value (FMV), using retail value would be the LAST choice as any Tax Professional will tell you.

As far as the $5000.00 Tax Deduction Limit, this is stated as the limit without a professional appraisal that will be have to be attached with form 8283 when you submit your taxes. The cost of an appraisal normally would not justify the appraised value and personally I wish you good luck finding someone to appraise a timeshare.

Also, I believe the IRS Publication No. 561 Fair Market Value Determination goes into a few more options than you listed above, so If anyone is interested in researching it, visit publication: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p561.pdf.

***** Donating a timeshare is still a wonderful option for hundreds of timeshare owners. It allows them to get out from under their timeshares in a timely manner, does not cost them anything, they will not be out any further monies and in most cases, even though it may not liquidate for thousands of dollars, the nonprofit organization is happy with any sum.

Just so you know I removed your link for your ad that you placed in 2 days after you posted in your other post. If this happens again you will receive an infraction.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Just so you know I removed your link for your ad that you placed in 2 days after you posted in your other post. If this happens again you will receive an infraction.

I'm fairly certain that I've purchased several timeshares from Andria McDowell then working for eMidSouth a large eBay reseller. I guess she's moved on?

[Donate@trejesto.com Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Donate@trejesto.com]

Just so you know I removed your link for your ad that you placed in 2 days after you posted in your other post. If this happens again you will receive an infraction.

I did not place a link to my sites in the above post. I am not sure why you wrote the above, this post has nothing to do with my first ones a couple of weeks back.

P.S. Tonyg did give me an infraction, as a newbie I did not know the rules. I apologized for any problems that I might have caused and promised to be a good from then on. He forgave me & hopefully you can also.

[drkenrich Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drkenrich]

How to get HIGH DOLLARS for your timeshare

I include this in this thread because it pertains to part of the idea. I did NOT include in the my initial post or in my first reply because it broaches a different idea that isn't pertinent to the original thread.

Here is just one simple idea of how you can get a much higher price for your timeshare than through "normal" channels. I'll give it step by step summary.

1. Call the local police or city hall in the area of your timeshare and ask them this, "What do I need to do to be legal to park on a public street in a car and put a for sale sign on the top of the car or in it's window?" Get whatever they tell you in writing and do it in preparation for the sale.

2. Find a local escrow or closing company that will accept your information pre-sale and be ready for a quick closing. At the same time, check on the Internet to contact those few companies that will finance or refinance timeshares. Get this all set up in advance before you do the next step.

3. Take your timeshare vacation at either your appointed time or try to exchange it for a peak season week internally within the resort.

4. On your first day of arrival get a car. Since you usually check in during the afternoon or evening have a good nights sleep.

5. The next morning, before people start arriving for their timeshare demonstration sales pitches, park your car across the street with a sign meeting the police or city magistrate's requirements for parking and post a sign saying something like, "Make your best deal and I'll sell mine for $1,000 less!" Make the sign really visible, in colors and interesting.

6. Sit in the car and wait.

7. Some people coming in will stop to see what you're about. Explain to them what you have, and that if they decide to buy, they will have so many days to cancel and get their deposit back. Tell them that if they bring back a completed sale contract and want yours you will sell it to them for $1,000 less than the best deal they got.

8. When someone comes back out, check their contract, negotiate a little more if you need, come to an agreement and get to the closing company and use the finance company if you need to.

9. You sell your timeshare much closer to resort prices, they get their money back and a good deal at the same time.

10. What can the resort do? Absolutely nothing. If they try, you've already established legal permission to be there doing what you're doing. Will they try to throw you out of the resort of give you problem? Look for it and be ready to bring suit against them for liable, threats, discrimination, etc. The likelihood is that they will NOT do anything if you stand up to their complaint to you understanding that you can go after them for a heap of cash if they don't fulfill their contract with you for a relaxing and pleasant vacation experience. Besides, how many people can you turn off toward sales if you sit outside in your car with a protest sign if they do and how much will that cost them? You do have power if you're willing to use it.


How does this pertain? One criteria used by appraisers and the IRS in determining valuation is the ability to sell on the open market. If all you avail yourself of is listing on the Internet, you're in the same leaking boat as everyone else is. If you do the above, you're much closer to what the resort does. Letting the IRS and the appraiser know and understand that you were capable, willing, prepared and planning to do the above gives you an easier ability to argue for a higher valuation.

These are all tactics meant to get you as much for your timeshare as possible.

Enjoy a little vacation.

Dr. Ken Rich

[Donate@trejesto.com Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Donate@trejesto.com]

I'm fairly certain that I've purchased several timeshares from Andria McDowell then working for eMidSouth a large eBay reseller. I guess she's moved on?

Hello Mr. Spence,

I thought that might be you, hope all is well. I am no longer with eMid and am not sure if you remember Leamon but both of us went out on our own some time back and are doing great. We have our own closing company that handles real estate and timeshare closings as well as coordinating timeshare donations for a wildlife refuge in Eureka Springs, AR. **Life is good**

Thanks for remembering me "Mr. Shenandoah"
Have a great day
Andria

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Look for it and be ready to bring suit against them for liable, threats, discrimination, etc.

Enjoy a little vacation.

Dr. Ken Rich

What is "liable?"
What kind of Dr. are you?
How can you "Enjoy a little vacation" if you do what you profess?

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

I did not place a link to my sites in the above post. I am not sure why you wrote the above, this post has nothing to do with my first ones a couple of weeks back.

P.S. Tonyg did give me an infraction, as a newbie I did not know the rules. I apologized for any problems that I might have caused and promised to be a good from then on. He forgave me & hopefully you can also.

The reason I said that was because you edited your post 2 days after you posted and placed a link back to your site which was still only 2 weeks ago, I wanted to be sure you saw that I caught it. Right now it looks like Spence has used you in the past. I just hope your not one of the upfront fee sites now. I am moving on and willing to start fresh.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Beware of self professed Doctors selling $ 500 magic pills - particularly by spam.

[Donate@trejesto.com Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Donate@trejesto.com]

The reason I said that was because you edited your post 2 days after you posted and placed a link back to your site which was still only 2 weeks ago, I wanted to be sure you saw that I caught it. Right now it looks like Spence has used you in the past. I just hope your not one of the upfront fee sites now. I am moving on and willing to start fresh.

Sounds good and I appreciate it. Just for the record, we do not EVER charge upfront fees.

Frank, I may be wrong but I think we may have done business before also. May eBay name was- Annabell67, I sold under that name for over 8 years.... did you purchase Shenandoahs at one time?

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

Sounds good and I appreciate it. Just for the record, we do not EVER charge upfront fees.

Frank, I may be wrong but I think we may have done business before also. May eBay name was- Annabell67, I sold under that name for over 8 years.... did you purchase Shenandoahs at one time?

No I never bought there and have only bought 2 from ebay. My Orlando week and a Ga week.

[drkenrich Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close drkenrich]

Reply to Spence's questions

What is "liable?"
What kind of Dr. are you?
How can you "Enjoy a little vacation" if you do what you profess?

The intent of the sentence was to give someone ideas of what they can come up with. Whether it's one or another makes no difference. The importance is to understand that the donor has strength they can use if the resort tries to get pushy. Is that some sort of problem with you?

As to what kind of doctor I am, I'm the best kind - retired. As to what my practice was, it has absolutely no relevance to this topic or questions here. What difference does it make to you? I'm proud of my degrees and use the honorific legally and professionally. Why is it such a concern of yours?

As to how anyone could enjoy the little vacation, I personally think anyone could sell the timeshare in a couple of days with minimum effort the way I suggested if they tried and spend the rest of the time enjoying their vacation and new found freedom. Why is that such a problem for you?

As far as I can see, you haven't bothered to even look at the information on the web site or what has been given. All you seem to know how to do is blast something you don't like. That's fine. But I would challenge you and anyone else to find out for themselves what is there.

Bigfrank, if you'll allow this one link to slip through, everyone, including Spence can see for themselves what is there and how its presented. Here's a simple question I would ask anyone with the honesty and integrity to follow through with - Who gets the $500 initially until the total service is done, the donor is free of their timeshare and the title is actually transferred? Please, Bigfrank, check this out yourself and give us an answer if you don't want to allow the link for verification for others.


Thank you for the opportunity the help others.
Dr. Ken Rich

[Jim McLaren Member Find all posts View Profile Close Jim McLaren]

bring suit against them for liable

You didn't answer Spence's question. What is "liable?" Perhaps you meant libel. If you can't use the English language correctly it brings into question the "professional" credentials you claim. Anybody can make a mistake but not to recognize it when somebody points it out makes one think you typed what you meant. So what kind of doctor ARE you?

Perhaps I should start calling my self Dr. Jim.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Dr Ken,

I believe your strategy for selling a timeshare in front of the resort could work. But, 99.99% of owners will not be willing to use that approach. That's why they pay brokers. There are brokers who have retail outlets near resorts who advertise 50-75% discounts from developer prices. They get a nice commission for their efforts. If what you are saying is that you are willing to do put your car in front of the resort and do that for $500, then that may be a good service. But, I highly doubt that that is what you will be doing.

Your $500 fee is nothing more than another version of the post card companies.

Anyone considering this offer from Dr. Ken, please consider the other alternatives you have. We, on this message board can help you out. You can either donate it to one of the charities mentioned or deed it back to your resort.