Timeshare Donation Dirty Little Secrets

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

I'd rather let you read them yourself and draw your own conclusions instead of argue each point here with you. ... We tell them and make it clear that if they want to take more than the $5,000 ceiling, they need to get a licensed appraiser. ...Go back and read the instructions to Form 8282.

Good suggestion, it does not in a clear place in your website and the 1st message you posted here, isn't it? But that is basic what I will suggest too.

So I went to IRS
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p561.pdf page 9

Deductions of More Than $5,000
Generally, if the claimed deduction for an item or group of similar items of donated property is more than $5,000, you must get a qualified appraisal made by qualified appraiser, and you much attach Section B of form 8283 to your tax return.

and if anyone interesting, they should look at pp 11 to see the the brief talking about 8283 and also Instructions for Form 8283 (12/2006)
and the form
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8283.pdf

Since you mentioned form 8282 which is supposed to filed by a NPO, so I went to IRS and take a look
IRS.gov Search Results

Not CPA, so I guess if I want to practise this, I will look at a CPA to discuss this in detail

Let me see if my understanding is correct, since I am not CPA, so I will for now assume you did check the IRS part to cover what you say. I will try to figure out if it is true or false if I really need to refer you to someone or use myself.

1. $500 is your income
2. you will use the NPO and put it on the line
3. if you hold it for 36 month, then we may claim higher value if we dare, and refile adjustment (means do a 1040X)
4. if for some reason you sold it within 36 month, we will claim that amount and probably refile the adjustment.

So, if I understand this right, and assume my tax knowledge is right, this is what you are saying. If at this moment I make a donation (2007), I will pay you $500, you will keep it in a NPO, and intend to default it if something wrong which you believe the resort can not do anything to you. At 2008, when I file my tax, I have to find an appraiser to appraised the value of the property, and hopefully, I got a high value appraisal. Then I need to file form 8283 which you will sign it. And if it is a impossible value, I will have to hope you will not sell it within 3 years, so you will not report it to IRS and get audit. Otherwise, I have to file a 1040x within 3 years. During those 3 years, you could sell it and mess the whole thing.

Why you want to sell a tax scheme like this to make live so complicate?

If the owner can get the appraised value, it does not matter which charity they give to. If the owner can not get that, it does not matter which charity they give to either.

Is it because it makes you feel less guite to say "all these owners that give the TS to me are low live lier anyway, it is perfect for me to cheat them and mess them"? What about the HOA? You openly talk about the possibility of intentional default

You already have one advantage than some other organizations, you will let the owner selects their closing company and receive money only when the title get transferred. Just sell that, it is better than sell the rest of Tax Scheme.

If you really want to involve some charity, at least put some audited expense report from some reputable firm so people can see the overhead, and put more description on the charity itself in your website.

Jya-Ning

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Perhaps someone should contact the IRS and FTC to check out the sites.

[Donate@trejesto.com Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Donate@trejesto.com]

Hello BruceCz

Hello Bruce,
It is good to hear from you..... it is a small world :-). I have helped you several times in the past. Me and Leamon both assisted you with a Christmas Mountain closing some time back, you have purchased several from eMid and I helped facilitate alot of their closings as well as did ads for ebay.

Now, to clear up any confusion regarding your statement below --- I believe you mean Jeff who does live near Branson and is ebay id "SumdayVacations". Bryan lives in Tennessee and works solely with eMid and finally Ms. Julie Sweet was the one that helped you with your reservation, she was living in Hawaii at the time but now resides in Arizona, she is still with eMid.

Again, it is good to "forum" with you
Have a great day
Andria

P.S. Can I start blaming Spence, Boca, TonyG, BigFrank or Johnny O for my errors also? It might keep me out of trouble -- LOL

I think you might assited on some my ebay paperwork for Bryan who operated near Branson but not under the name of Midsouth. I think it was something called Brandywine or SumdayVacations. I think you were then working out of Hawaii. Am I correct? It's hard to keep track after buying about 50 differant ownerships the past 7 years. That is one off the 29 we still own.

It was a floating Christmas Mountain Wi Dells unit. I belive you helped reserve a summer week for us before the deed was in our name.

If I am wrong I am sure it is not my fault, its either Spence's, or Boca's or TonyG's or BigFranks or Johnny O's, etc fault.

Bruce

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Perhaps someone should contact the IRS and FTC to check out the sites.

Tony,

You have a good point. Dr. Ken is trying to use his non-profit status to promote what looks to me like an illegal tax evasion scheme. I wonder if the IRS or Attorney General has an audit process for the charter of an organization to ensure that illegal activity isn't being pursued. I am not an attorney or CPA either, but that's what it looks like to my untrained, but observant eye.

Jya-Ning,

If a person can get a legitimate appraisal, then they don't need to go through this process. The process appears to be intended to reduce the likelihood of someone getting audited or caught after a bogus appraisal.

Also, to be fair to Dr. Ken, he does bring up at least one valid point. That point is that a charity can take a donation and simply dump it onto the market below Fair Market Value. This is true for any types of donations of property like cars, boats, etc as well.

The unique issue related to the timeshare industry is that it is very hard to determine the Fair Market Value of a timeshare. On any given day, a timeshare that is sold for $20000 can also be sold for $2000.

There are many ways that Dr. Ken could have turned this knowledge into money. He could have, for instance, created a timeshare appraisal company and charge $500 per appraisal. That would be an ethical business if done right.

Independent of whether or not this scheme truly is illegal, it is unthical and a bald face attempt to make tax payers bail out timeshare owners. I am personally against such schemes.

Maybe Dr. Ken is onto something. Maybe we should create a business call "we bankrupt timeshares." This non profit takes in timeshares, refuses to pay maintenance fees, and defaults on all obligations. And, it preserves the credit of the original owner. Unfortunately, this can't be done if there is a mortgage on the property. And, they won't allow an assumption of the mortgage since the company would have about a 350 credit score. Developers typically will not transfer title to another person or organization if there is a lien or outstanding balance due on it. Otherwise, this could be a gold mine business. It would be in the same category as charging people to take their timeshares away from them.

[slim04 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close slim04]

Dr. Rich, if Community Health Training, Inc. is a legitimate NPO, you really need to consult with a tax lawyer or a reputable CPA firm, otherwise I think you will jeopardize its 501(c)(3) status. Legitimate tax shelter promoters always have tax opinions from reputable law firms attached to their offering materials to state that the proposed transaction will withstand IRS scrutiny.

FWIW, I think your scheme will fail because of the Business Purpose Rule. Simply put, if you do a transaction solely to evade taxes, without any underlying business purpose, the IRS will ignore the 36 month period.

If you don't bother getting competent tax advice and aggressively promote your scheme, it will be much harder to claim an innocent misinterpretation of the tax law by a NPO.

[brucecz Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close brucecz]

Totally worth my time in visiting for a few minutes. Funniest post in years, Bruce!!

Melvin, nice to hear from the political bigshots. I hope all is well with your lovely Sargert Of Arms, Rita.

But in regards to your flippent mocking reply to my sincerce post offering many great values and comfort to the members off this site, shame on you.

For the entertainment (AT MY EXSPENSE) you enjoyed, please send a $500 atonement donation made out to my Church. Your jeering post directed at my semi honest posts try to help the sheep on this site by this shepard I find deeply disstressing and apalling.

Now in a effort to help you I will suggest that you declare all of your bribe money you have collected that you declare that income on your income taxes to avoid doing federal and state time. Please send another $500 donation to my Church for my semi-legal advice.

I have heard that you offer good value and service in regards to bribes. Keep up the good works.

We heard that your former bails bondsman you used to use for your legistrative staff suffered some missforture and no longer resides in Kentucky, but is now the guest of the federals in Marion, Ill.

Please consider my church for supplying our sort of almost legal bonding services for your employes and immediate family.

We semi belive that that all of these $500 donations are semi legal if signed in your semi truck that you use to ship your semi corn drippings.

Your semi-friend
Bruce

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Maybe Dr. Ken is onto something. Maybe we should create a business call "we bankrupt timeshares." This non profit takes in timeshares, refuses to pay maintenance fees, and defaults on all obligations. And, it preserves the credit of the original owner. Unfortunately, this can't be done if there is a mortgage on the property. And, they won't allow an assumption of the mortgage since the company would have about a 350 credit score. Developers typically will not transfer title to another person or organization if there is a lien or outstanding balance due on it. Otherwise, this could be a gold mine business. It would be in the same category as charging people to take their timeshares away from them.

The problem is that it would hurt the present timeshare owners, who are paying their maintenance fees, and their HOA's too who are trying to keep the costs down for the resort. It wouldn't hurt the developers, who lie to us, when they make their presentation. The developers and the exchange companies together with their fancy and phony resort directories and false promises that you can go anywhere, are not being hurt in this case so will continue unless people finally wise up. Most people seem to buy because they can exchange all over the world rather than buying the timeshare condo for their own use mainly and they don't understand the limitations there are, unless you buy the most expensive package there is. To me, this is the biggest scam in the timeshare industry!

Yes, the prices are too high but most of the fees are justified because of the poor marketing approach these developers use so the expenses are high to them too and they pass it on to the buyer. What else is new? They could do it on the Internet a lot cheaper by offering cheap travel package to their resort rather than having to pay vacationers a bribe to have them take a timeshare presentation at their resort. JMHO.

I don't think it will last much longer the way they are selling timeshares today because people will search the Internet the moment they have purchased and signed a contract at the resort unless they are too lazy or not yet Internet savvy but this won't happen with the younger generation today.

The timeshare resort developers will have to find a better way to peddle their timeshare condos with lower prices or with incentives that the re-sale market cannot match. I don't see how else they can survive? Do you, Boca?

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Yes, the prices are too high but most of the fees are justified because of the poor marketing approach these developers use so the expenses are high to them too and they pass it on to the buyer. What else is new? They could do it on the Internet a lot cheaper by offering cheap travel package to their resort rather than having to pay vacationers a bribe to have them take a timeshare presentation at their resort. JMHO.

How is it a poor marketing approach? A lot of smart people have decided that this is the way to go. Consolidated's Tahiti Village has even taken it a step further with Alan Thicke's TV TV comercials and the playmate's radio fake interview and they're doing $2M a day in sales in the internet age.

I don't think it will last much longer the way they are selling timeshares today because people will search the Internet the moment they have purchased and signed a contract at the resort unless they are too lazy or not yet Internet savvy but this won't happen with the younger generation today.

You may be right, in time things change, but the younger generation is buying in as indicated above.

The timeshare resort developers will have to find a better way to peddle their timeshare condos with lower prices or with incentives that the re-sale market cannot match. I don't see how else they can survive? Do you, Boca?

The developers are always looking for the better way to separate themselves from those nasty resales. They make everything as nebulous as they can with Platinum Benefits and buy it now today only stuff. They will keep trying, offering stuff that they say has value that you can only have if you buy from them, Marriott and their points, Wyn/FF and their VIP status, Sunterra and their Club.

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

Developers have been using the " buy it now only today stuff " for over twenty plus years. That is nothing new.

[tabbyc Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close tabbyc]

Dr. Rich

Are you a Witch Doctor?

[KenK Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close KenK]

Jim:
Dr Ken is already familiar with Dave. He (Dave) answered the post on tug and responded to Dr Kens tax ideas. When the same initial post occured on the Redweek forums, he was referred to the post on the tugbbs but I didn't see a reply yet. (It's very had to re-find anything on Redweek for me...stupid I guess).

Dr Ken was going to check out the comments of Dave....and maybe Wonka, also a CPA....and then reply. I didn't see a comment, but honestly didn't check to see lately.

KenK

Dr Ken,


There is a person who I hold in high esteem. His name is Dave M.

He is a CPA and one of the timesharing world's most knowledgable people on Marriott's. His prior professional advice is that you cannot take the higher deduction that you are suggesting that the taxpayer take.

If you are going to take that type of risk, why not just take a huge deduction and just hope you don't get audited? At the end of the day, the donor needs to justify their method of valuation to the IRS if they get audited.

I would trust Dave M's free advice over your $500 advice any day of the week.

I find it interesting that you admit you are not a tax expert and yet you offer a service attempting to help owners reduce their taxes. By the way, they get a tax deduction for a donation, not a tax credit. There is a big difference. Perhaps you should look it up.

Keep posting. The more you post, the more you will either prove or disprove your value to readers on this message board. I've already proven my value. You have a ways to go.

[brucecz Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close brucecz]

BocaBum99,
Thanks for your kind words. Kindness goes a long way.

I share my real life input here ( hang around if you will ) as a former timeshare owner. I know of many of the scams in the timeshare world and a lot of people end up spending thousands of dollars that they could use on vacation.
My purpose if to inform people who are considering a purchase.
A lot of people look to sites such as this to get information before purchasing a timeshare even though people here have told me different. How can anyone know why a person would click on any site?

I am here to help in hopes that they do not get taken in by some scam as I was big time. So many lies told to me that if I had known better I wouldn't never purchased the product. I had no chance to even make it work for me. I want to keep others from making the same big mistake. I have stated here before that not everyone should buy a timeshare and not everyone needs a timeshare as some timeshare salesmen think. Timeshares work for a lot of people and that is great!. I am not anti-timeshare. I am against people taking advantage of people when they know it is wrong in the name of timeshare vacations. I hope everyone has fun on vacation by whatever means they want to.I have NO problem with the people who make timeshares work for them, go for it, enjoy!

I also have helped several people through the selling process.My advice is free to all.

Scams are the main thing I want people to be aware of !!!

Quote" also have helped several people through the selling process.My advice is free to all.

Scams are the main thing I want people to be aware of " Unquote

I was apalled at your so called "free" advice in this string. Your advice could be turn out to be very costly if someone spent $500 upfront and then maybe ran in to later big time income tax problems following your praise of the OP's postings.

Didn't it seem a bit strange out of all the posts on this string you were the only one that supported and praised the OP?

You certainly are not helping any newbies when you failed to notice the $500 up front charge and at first recommended the OP's services with that services easily discernable pitfalls in regard to his services.

At least later you admitted that you did not read carefully and admitted that did not notice the $500 unfront charge.

I could not help notice your posts had a quarrelsome tone directed at some who disagreed with the OP.
Be very carefull on whom you praise as it dones affect your creditability.

Quote "I am here to help in hopes that they do not get taken in by some scam as I was big time. So many lies told to me that if I had known better I wouldn't never purchased the product. I had no chance to even make it work for me." Unquote. This sounds like the blind trying to lead others through the timeshare minefield after they have had their legs blown off and are still do not have a map of knownlegde to navigate that timeshare minefield.

Maybe you post less and should listen more to the ones that have a track record of being sucessfull in timesharing in stead of making the huge mistake you made of orginally praising the OP untill your glaring potentially very costly mistake was pointed out to you.

Maybe you were hoping that the OP's self serving advice would work for you to help your recoup the money that your bad timeshare buying decissions cost you.

Go ahead and try the OP's program it and report back in three years how much it may have cost you in interest, penalties, tax attorney fees, court costs. The $500 upfront front cost may be the least exspensive part of this deal.

Bruce

[M. Henley Class President Find all posts View Profile Close M. Henley]

At Risk

At the risk of having to donate another $500 to the Church of Bruce, let me say that ski mobiling is just around the corner, thus keeping busy minds busier.

[somerville Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close somerville]

Frank, I may be wrong but I think we may have done business before also. May eBay name was- Annabell67, I sold under that name for over 8 years.... did you purchase Shenandoahs at one time?

I don't know if Frank bought from you, but I bought some Equivest points from you a few years ago.

[Donate@trejesto.com Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Donate@trejesto.com]

Somerville

Somerville,
It is such a small world.... Hopefully all is well with you.
Thanks for the "Chat"
Andria

I don't know if Frank bought from you, but I bought some Equivest points from you a few years ago.