Marriott vs Points-based

[snpperhd Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close snpperhd]

Hi…I'm interested in purchasing a timeshare, mainly in Hawaii. I've received extensive information regarding some Marriott properties, both on Hawaii and in Las Vegas. While we intend to predominantly vacation in Hawaii, I understand having property in Las Vegas could be a better option…it's considerably cheaper and has what I've been lead to believe, great tradability. Marriott also boasts their point system, which if they're to be believed, can be used for hotel and airfare without restrictions...is this true?
Although not fully educated on the WorldMark/RCI etc, point-based timeshares, I understand them to a degree. While seemingly much cheaper, I can't see the tradability of a points-based system. Are Marriott properties an overpriced option? Is Las Vegas really tradable for a family wanting to vacation mainly in Hawaii? Should I try WorldMark/points systems; will I be able vacation with them without planning a year out? Thanks for any help you may provide.

snpperhd

[aliikai2 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close aliikai2]

1st of all, the only way to get Marriott points

is to pay the developer the retail price, normally very high compared to a resale purchase.


Then, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but you need to starting reading here and on Timeshare Users Group - Timeshare Owners Helping Each other, Unbiased Timeshare Information for All Owners, Buy Sell Rent Timeshare every advice article for a few weeks to months before you can start to grasp this thing we call timesharing.

You might not be a successful prospective timeshare user if;

1) you can't plan 8-12 months in advance.

2) you are hoping to trade into Hawaii every year with a lesser demanded unit

3) You have to ask if Las Vegas is a better option.

4) you are hoping to use Marriott points for air tixs, etc


Just keep reading, and asking narrow questions, it will make sense sooner or later.

jmho, Greg

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

First there are many point base TS systems. WM is but one of these. If hawaii is where you want to vacation, I'd pick a TS which has lots of options for Hawaii.

-Buy a Marriott in Hawaii ( but Marriott doesn't really have points, they have Hotel reward points which are very different than TS points AND only if you pay $15K extra to buy your TS from Marriott)
-Buy the Hilton affiliate "the bay club" it much cheaper than the HGVC resorts in Hawaii but will get you points if you want to vacation somewhere else in the system.
- Buy HGVC in LV or Orlando, you can use your HGVC points to get to Hawaii pretty easy. (easy at 9 month out)
-Buy Pahio ( part of the FF/Wyndham system) but the best and cheapest in Pahio will not be in FF but only managed by FF. So you'll not be in FF points. BUT they are much much cheaper than any other option.
-Buy Worldmark points. But I'm not that happy with WM resorts in Hawaii and to get reservations at the WM resorts in Hawaii you must plan very early (a year out at least).
-Buy Vacations International (VI) or Shell Vacations points, both are mostly west coast point based TS systems and have several resorts in Hawaii. Any VI point package is fine but with Shell you must buy Hawaii points to make sure you'll be able to go to Hawaii ( don't buy the cheaper AZ or CA pts). Both these options are pretty cheap.

But the best option is staying here for awhile and learning more about your options before buying anything.

Buying a TS is easy selling one you don't want can be very difficult. So take your time!!

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

snpperhd,

First let me welcome you to TS4M's

I will try and help you with your questions, and there are others here who will also give you the benefit of their knowledge.

If you are looking to purchase a Marriott timeshare, the first thing you need to make a decision about is do you buy directly, or resale.....Buying directly from Marriott will enable you to trade in your timeshare for a set number of points, each year, or every other year, depending on the timeshare. You can use these points for hotel stays, airline flights, etc. How best to use them, is another subject.

Most here believe that the thousands more that you would need to pay buying directly from Marriott, is NOT worth getting those points. You can save thousands by buying resale.

Hawaii vs Las Vegas......If you would like to vacation in Hawaii most years, it is best to purchase in Hawaii, at the resort that you'd like to visit most frequently, and in the season that you'd like to visit.

Hawaii is a difficult trade, and although the MF's and cost of the timeshare are higher that LV, it is the only way that you would be guaranteed getting what you want. It is possible to exchange into Hawaii, but when you are looking to visit, would play a major role in whether or not you would be successful, in obtaining your request.

Could you give us little bit more info on when & where you would like to travel, number of people traveling with you, etc. This would make a difference in your chances of an exchange, and might be the answer to buying in Hawaii, or not.

For example....It is difficult to trade into a 2 bdrm in Hawaii. If you are traveling with children, and would always need a 2 bdrm, your chances are much harder than if you only need a 1 bdrm.

[snpperhd Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close snpperhd]

aliikai2, Bill4728 & ArtsieAng Thanks for your quick responses.

More info on my situation.
1. It's just my wife and I.
2. We would like to have a 2-bedroom for the flexibility to invite friends or family, plus for ease of trade.
3. Although no set time of year to vacation, I would say usually towards the end of the year, Aug-Nov.

While I'm not totally excited about paying over $40K for a Hawaiian TS direct from MVCI, I haven't seem many cheap deals on them otherwise. Everyone says resale is considerably cheaper, but I've yet to witness that on a MVCI property. Most times I see a MVCI TS listed, it is barely 15% less than direct...with that in mind, the extra $6K doesn't seem like too much to have the rewards points option. Maybe I'm looking for MVCI resales in the wrong places.
Plus, I'm not totally stuck on MVCI...just the first option I explored. Now that I have a little more info, I think I'll look into the points-based options. Thanks again for the help.

aliikai2--Thanks for the link, I'll start reading immediately.
snpperhd

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

You may not be looking in the right places for resales. Generally speaking, Marriott resales are 50 to 60% of developer or retail pricing. Marriott incorporates right of first refusal (ROFR) into their contracts and, if the resale price is low enough, they will exercise their ROFR and take the unit out from under you. This is bad for people trying to buy a timeshare resale but artifically supports the resale price or those wishing to sell. It's good for Marriott, good for those wanting to sell but not so great for those wanting to buy.

There are a lot of opinions on the value of Marriott Rewards points. Marriott units purchased directly from Marriott can be exchanged (for a small fee) for Marriott Rewards points. These points can then be used for hotel stays, FF miles, cruises or vacation packages. Generally speaking, the packages which include FF miles and hotel certificates represent one of the best values.

There are many Marriott owners that have successfully used their timeshare units to travel to destinations not usually covered by timeshares. We've gone to Ireland for a week using our Marriott Rewards points. It did pay for our RT airfare and 1 week in a Marriott hotel. Since European hotels tend to be expensive with the current exchange rate, this represents a decent value for your points.

As far as Las Vegas have great exchange value, consider this. There will be 2,600 new units built in Las Vegas by the end of next year. By the end of 2010 there are plans for over 8,000 more units. That will amount to 52,000 additional interval weeks added to what's already in Vegas right now. Vegas, in the next couple of years, is going to be overbuilt and over supplied. I would NOT buy Vegas to exchange. Especially if your target is Hawaii, which is a diffucult exchange to begin with. As it stands right now Marriott's Grand Chateau will exchange for Hawaii. Will it still exchange for Hawaii in the next five years? Maybe, but I wouldn't bet my TS investment on it.

There are at least two systems in Vegas that have decent trade ability into Hawaii that I'm familiar with. Those would be HGVC (Hilton Grand Vacation Club) and DRI (Diamond Resorts International). Both have points based reservation systems (Marriott is still a week for a week based system) and both HGVC and DRI have decent availability for Hawaii. Looking with my points through either system I often find availability if I look far enough in advance. If I wait until last minute (anything less than 6 months) then it's tough sleding.

As mentioned earlier, if you want to vist Hawaii more often than not, it's best to own in Hawaii. It might be more expensive but owning where you want to go is about the only way to guarentee you'll be able to get there. Whether buying from the developer is the right thing to do is up to you. HGVC does not put as many limitations on resale buyers as many other compaines including DRI or Marriott. About the only thing you lose with HGVC is the ability to become an elite member with them. Elite membership isn't that big of a deal to many people so Hilton might be a good fit for you.

I own with Hilton and with Marriott. Both have very nice resorts. Marriott has more options within the Marriott family. Marriott may be coming out with a points based reservation system but, there's a lot of rumor that resale buyers could be severly limited with access to this potential new reservation system the Marriott is "rumored" to be developing. Keep in mind the rumors are generally worth what you pay for them.......nothing. But there is one well connected member at TUG that has inside information that the reservation system for Marriott will be changing and probably in 2009. It's just that no one really knows how or a specific date. So it's really all guess work for now.

[snpperhd Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close snpperhd]

Thanks dougp26364...you're right, I've been looking in the wrong places. While perusing TUG, I found several properties well below MVCI-direct prices. I've also definitely learned that Las Vegas is NOT a good trade option. Now that I've seen lower resale prices for Hawaii TS, I just need to review which brand I'm willing to purchase. Having stayed at a Marriott property, I consider them somewhat of a gold-standard for me. It seems you have that same feeling about Hilton. I'll begin my research on those resale properties. Thanks again for your help.

snpperhd

[owabim2008 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close owabim2008]

Ihave a Hawaii property

I have a timeshare through the Shell Vacation Club that I would be willing to discuss with you. You can email me at nmfeldinor@comcast.net and we can discuss it in more detail.
Michael Feldman

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

If I were you, I would book some of the promotional packages at the resorts in Hawaii and see where you like to buy eventually from the developer or re-sale. Most of the new developments have these attractive deals constantly.

I know that the Marriott does and so do the Starwood resorts and the Diamond Resorts International too. There may be more yet.

I would study this forum as well as the TUG forum before buying anything.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Thanks dougp26364...you're right, I've been looking in the wrong places. While perusing TUG, I found several properties well below MVCI-direct prices. I've also definitely learned that Las Vegas is NOT a good trade option. Now that I've seen lower resale prices for Hawaii TS, I just need to review which brand I'm willing to purchase. Having stayed at a Marriott property, I consider them somewhat of a gold-standard for me. It seems you have that same feeling about Hilton. I'll begin my research on those resale properties. Thanks again for your help.

snpperhd

Actually, I own two Marriott properties to our one HGVC property. While HGVC's point based reservation system is very good, HGVC doesn't offer the variety of locations that Marriott offers. If we were to buy another timeshare and had to choose between HGVC and Marriott I'd choose another Marriott resort.

But, I tend to buy where I want to stay. If I were buying to exchange HGVC isn't such a bad deal. However, I feel that DRI's THE Club is just as flexable, trades easier through I.I. that HGVC does through RCI and has far fewer charges than HGVC. HGVC does have better quality resorts than DRI but there are far fewer of them.

There are a lot of systems out there worthy of looking at. HGVC, Marriott, Starwood, Hyatt, DRI and Disney are but a few. Every individual will have their own idea of what fits best for them both price wise and system wise. While we purchased into both Marriott and Hilton we stubled into DRI when a resort we already owned, which was managed by DRI, became included in the old Sunoptions program after DRI bought out Sunterra. I was very thankful that this happened as the first two resort weeks I had purchased had become orphan weeks and both were in Las Vegas. Essentially, being able to join DRI's THE Club (old Sunoptions program under Sunterra) saved our ability to exchange out of an overbuilt location (Las Vegas) for decent destinations.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

If you continue to look at Marriott and are interested in resale, there is a site that lists Marriott sales and can give you an idea at what point Marriott exercises ROFR on the resale contracts. It's located at ROFR

[snpperhd Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close snpperhd]

If you continue to look at Marriott and are interested in resale, there is a site that lists Marriott sales and can give you an idea at what point Marriott exercises ROFR on the resale contracts. It's located at ROFR

Thanks...I think Marriott and the kind will be my main focus. The points-based TS sound good except for the worry of what phase the points were purchased in. More research...

snpperhd

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

Thanks...I think Marriott and the kind will be my main focus. The points-based TS sound good except for the worry of what phase the points were purchased in. More research...

snpperhd

I wanted you to know that we got the contact us you sent. The reason your post was sent to the moderated Que was the system thought there was a spam link, It came from the quote not from your post. Some times the system is to sensitive but it does help to stop the spam.

[SDSunshine Member Find all posts View Profile Close SDSunshine]

Thanks...I think Marriott and the kind will be my main focus. The points-based TS sound good except for the worry of what phase the points were purchased in. More research...

snpperhd

Look at Starwood too. Westin Kaanapali is a top notch resort in a fantastic location. Try searching eBay for Westin properties for the next month or two. You'll see them come up for 50-60% off developer prices, and since Maui is a "mandatory" resort, it will come with "points" that you can us at any other Westin fairly easily. Just my thoughts.

Katherine

[snpperhd Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close snpperhd]

Thanks for the posting explanation bigfrank.

Also, thanks for the Starwood/Westin tip Katherine, I'll check them out.

snpperhd