Example of why weeks systems will never have mass market appeal

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

There is a post on TUG from a poster with the screen name of Chicagod80

Here is what he said:

Hi am a newbie- I am trying to find out whether more experienced TUG members have completed an analysis on the trading power of various resorts -alternatively , is there some type of report / forum where the basics of trading net worth is dscussed and explained . I have a 2 bedroom /2 Bathroom floating red week at the Sun City Resort in South Africa - while I have traded into some quality resorts , I truly have no idea why I can get 2 bedroom units at Vistana in Mid December but can only get a 1 bedroom unit at the Grand Mayan - Nuevo Vallarta - would I be able to get a 2 bedroom at GM if I had a three bedroom unit ?

Any help would be most appreciated

Chicagod80

The majority of people in the world would agree that this is a fundamental flaw of weeks exchange systems. If this were disclosed to them upfront, it would be a showstopper to most sales to people who do not want to go to the same place every year for vacation. This systemic issue alone would prevent timesharing from ever achieving true mass market appeal.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I think you have it backwards on market appeal. The majority of timesharers own to use, and having the security of a fixed week has a lot more market appeal to that group, without the uncertainty and hocus pocus of points or floating systems.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I think you have it backwards on market appeal. The majority of timesharers own to use, and having the security of a fixed week has a lot more market appeal to that group, without the uncertainty and hocus pocus of points or floating systems.

Stop! You're argument is being examined by the Bureau of Logical Fallacy Investigation.

Boca's question was mass market appeal. You can't prove mass market appeal using attractiveness to current owners. You have to disprove it by referencing the mass market. By their nature current owners are a population for whom the product is known to have appeal.


****************

Let's play a little bit of reductio ad absurdum here and apply your logic in a different setting to bludgeon the point.

I grew up in Minnesota, where there are some Scandinavians who make this vile concoction called lutefisk. Not only that, there are some social events (Scandinavian fraternal organizations and Norwegian Lutheran churches, mostly) that have lutefisk feeds.

So let's say I have to go to one of those events; no way out. So I walk in the door and after meeting minimum social obligations, I bail as soon as I can because of the stench.

Then, let's say that later on I'm having a shake at Bridgeman's with a boyhood friend who actually helps organize such events and he tells me he's planning to expand his lutefisk social planning business to the southeast US. I tell him (speaking my best Minnesotan), "Ya know, Davey. This lutefisk business expansion thing you're thinking about maybe might not go just as you think it might. Because, ya know, not everyone might enjoy lutefisk quite as much as you and the Swanson boys do."

And Davey puts down his cup, fingers his mustache a moment, looks at me and says, "Yeahbbut, I don't that's going to happen. I know what you're saying and I thought about it. So at the Sons of Knute feed last month I asked everyone I knew if they would go to a lutefisk event if they were living in North Carolina and going to a Methodist church, and the church had a lutefisk social in February or March.

"And, ya know Stevie, every one of them said, "Yeah, you bet I would go. That would be just like having a little bit of Minnie-sota right there in the Outer Banks. Me and the missus - why we'd absolutely love it. I think you got a great idea there, Davey. Go for it, and don't let any of those smartypants skeptics put you off on it.' So based on my information, I think this lutefisk social thing has that - what you called it - 'mass appeal'. I think I got myself a winner here, Stevie. Just like when you and I were twelve years old and we did that haunted house in your garage and every one of the little kids in the neighborhood came and paid their 25 cents admission. Remember how we scared the crap out of little Joey Patterson when we put his hand in the bowl of peeled grapes and told him those were eyeballs? And then he wet his pants and he went home crying to his Momma? God, those were the great times weren't they? Those kids today, you know, they just don't have it as good as we did. It's becoming a crazy world, it sure is. Nope, Stevie, lutefisk is gonna fly. It'll be big."

*****

The way to determine if lutefisk socials have mass appeal is to talk to people who don't currently go to lutefisk socials, not to base conclusions from acquaintances who like lutefisk socials. In the same vein, the way to determine if the weeks timesharing model has mass appeal is to talk to pepole who don't own timeshare weeks, not to ask existing weeks owners who consititute a population of people preselected to view that option favorably.

Furthermore, you have also argued forcefully in the past that timeshare ownership is an exclusive club and that walls need to be erected and maintained to keep timesharing separate from the masses.

******

Your argument is determined to be invalid based on logical fallacy and on inconisistency with previous submittals to this agency. Your comments are hereby dismissed with prejudice.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

That's who buys timeshare. That is the known quantity. Anything else is purely speculative, and as I recall on TUG you have in the past been critical of anything you labeled speculative.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

In business, my collegues have a saying for what you just said. That is planning for the future by looking in the rear view mirror. If what you suggest is true, then there would NEVER be innovation because things would always be exactly like it has always been. Fortunately for all of us, that is not what happens in our capitalistic economy. Smart entrepreneurs anticipate unmet customer needs and current product deficiences, bring new products and services to market and wipe out those who don't adapt to the new market realities.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

That's who buys timeshare. That is the known quantity. Anything else is purely speculative, and as I recall on TUG you have in the past been critical of anything you labeled speculative.

Nope - I'm merely responding to you trying to change the reshape the argument into what it isn't, and pointing out your inconsistencies. I''m not speculating one bit on whether or not there is a mass market for timeshares.

But I am calling you out for employing rhetorical devices to cloud issues and reshape discussion.

Steve: you cannot logically maintain both of the following arguments:

1. Timeshare programs in general, and the weeks program in particular, should be a separate travel program, firewalled off from the mass market because it services a specialized niche of the travel world.
   
2. A weeks exchange program has mass market appeal, as proven by your asserted high satisfaction of weeks owners.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

It seems to me that there was mass market appeal before points came along.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

It seems to me that there was mass market appeal before points came along.

Yeah, BigFrank is an example of Large Mass market appeal.

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

Mass market?????......is that only for people who go to church?

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Mass market?????......is that only for people who go to church?

Actually, it's only for those people who live in Ted Kennedy's state.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Based on numbers and the fact that it plateaus far short of a majority, it is points that is the niche product, not weeks. The firewall is necessary between RCI Points and RCI Weeks because RCI has rigged the system to give Points members access to prime Weeks inventory at a bargain basement price while giving Weeks no assured access to Points inventory at all.

The market has shown that timeshare based on the traditional exclusivity principles that have applied for many years DO have a mass market appeal. The large number of timeshare sales over the years undeniably show that.
Take away the exclusivity, and they may still have a mass appeal to use, but not necessarily to own. Who is going to buy the cow when RCI is providing the milk for pennies?

Nope - I'm merely responding to you trying to change the reshape the argument into what it isn't, and pointing out your inconsistencies. I''m not speculating one bit on whether or not there is a mass market for timeshares.



But I am calling you out for employing rhetorical devices to cloud issues and reshape discussion.

Steve: you cannot logically maintain both of the following arguments:

1. Timeshare programs in general, and the weeks program in particular, should be a separate travel program, firewalled off from the mass market because it services a specialized niche of the travel world.
   
2. A weeks exchange program has mass market appeal, as proven by your asserted high satisfaction of weeks owners.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Just reading the topic line

Example of why weeks systems will never have mass market appeal

and acknowledging that the industry has changed in recent years, it should be pointed out that the Weeks system did/does had/has mass market appeal. Millions of owners bought their timeshares under it and the majority are still using it.