The myth of exclusivity

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Over the past several months, I have seen many posters describe timesharing and its "exclusivity". Evidently, many people bought into the idea that a timeshare is a special product for special people and that special product has features that only benefit owners.

So, was timesharing ever "exclusive"?

I will claim that since timesharing was set up around the ability to exchange, that it was sold as being exclusive, but it indeed never was exclusive. If an owner exchanges their timeshare interval to someone else, that person coming into the resort is NOT an owner at that resort and has NO financial stake in that resort. Therefore, they are no different than a renter.

To me, a product is exclusive if very few people can BUY it. A high end fractional at Ritz-Carleton is exclusive because most people cannot buy it. A Rolls Royce is exclusive because it is so expensive.

If it's true that timesharing is all about people wanting to go to the same place every year and exclusivity, then they should eliminate exchange all together and raise prices so that only the rich can afford it. Until then, timesharing is NOT about exclusivity.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Boca - I would have to agree that the original weeks exchange model used by RCI did assume exclusivity via ownership of a timeshare property to gain access. Unfortunately they didn't foresee the human quality of finding loopholes or bargains by manipulating such a system. Once members figured out that the time honored method of deposit low - take high was viable the top times were immediately snatched up leaving the trash times for RCI to try to market. Since the limitation of having to market strictly to other owners wasn't working - they are too smart to take the leftovers - the dregs had to be moved to outsiders. Once that occured the light went off on another time honored trait. Corporations like to maximize profits. Why market the unwanted dregs for pennies when the better times can bring in far more? Why give those more valuable times away to the dreg owners when they can be more easily marketed to outsiders if no "equivilent" level trade is requested? Why not hide the value of the trade so no one knows if they are getting a fair trade or not? It degraded into a near perfect system for the exchange companies but not for the mere owner. Actually it is surprising that RCI decided to offer points as it will eventually do away with the free, self valued inventory they have to rent now. You can be sure that never would have happened if the mini-systems hadn't come along to syphon off the best resorts/times and assure that the more general deposits were mostly secondary time or worse. II is still trying to cater to those mini-systems through sweetheart arrangements but eventually they too will realize they get nothing but leftovers for the general member base. All the good stuff is completely picked over by the multiple and favored mini-systems before the mere weeks owner gets a look at it. Not a model for happy general members.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

I felt that Timesharing was like an exclusive club. It still is but not as much since rentals got into the picture.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

And to think I have the reputation Over Yonder of being an antagonist, one who starts threads purposely to stir the pot.

As those of us who have said what you are saying those of us have said, it is the system that was sold as a closed system, exclusive to owners somewhere, with other resorts being made available through a closed exchange program, one available only to owners somewhere.

That is obviously what is meant by exclusivity.

That is a fact that only an agitator would debate, IMHO.

(Add smilie to cushion the words.)

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

... Actually it is surprising that RCI decided to offer points as it will eventually do away with the free, self valued inventory they have to rent now. You can be sure that never would have happened if the mini-systems hadn't come along to syphon off the best resorts/times and assure that the more general deposits were mostly secondary time or worse. II is still trying to cater to those mini-systems through sweetheart arrangements but eventually they too will realize they get nothing but leftovers for the general member base. All the good stuff is completely picked over by the multiple and favored mini-systems before the mere weeks owner gets a look at it. Not a model for happy general members.

I don't know what you mean about the mini-systems syphoning off the best times? Are you saying that, say, Fairfield, can grab a mittful for its own members?

I'd like to learn more about this - please point me in the right direction.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Many benefits to the minis

I don't know what you mean about the mini-systems syphoning off the best times? Are you saying that, say, Fairfield, can grab a mittful for its own members?

I'd like to learn more about this - please point me in the right direction.

It works in two ways. Both benefitting the mini-system owner and penalizing the "regular" weeks holder.

First the mini-group gets a tremendous boost in trade power by the volume it brings to the table. The exchange company - II or RCI - wants those deposits and sees it as a good tie in. So they may give a preference in advance dates to reserve or by locking away inventory for xx days so only the mini's can reserve it. I see that clearly with Sunterra and II. The same week at a Sunterra resort used as a "deposit and hope" with II gets the standard downsized unit and borderline use times I'm all too used to seeing with them. But take that same exact week, place it into Club Sunterra options (points) and suddenly only 1/2 to 2/3 of the points are needed to reserve top times and bigger units with II. And have "change" left over to use with Club. So the out going trade is often better for the mini members.

Second on the incoming side (the deposit given up to RCI/II for the time taken by the mini-system member) the mini-system gets to say what it is worth! So you can be sure it is the absolute minimum they can give back. It's probably one big source of all those off peak weeks and smaller units that flood into the systems. In both cases the regular old paying owner gets hosed by the preference shown to the mini's. In fact the preference is as bad or worse than what is seen in the often lamented RCI Points preference but these perks are far more widespread in total than RCI Points are (yet).

In RCI the FF mini gets a type of "request first" not offered to other members and their fees are paid by FF (included in the annual fes but those are still very competitive compared to the fees paid at other resorts that also require the owners to pay RCI to be members). At II you don't get a full membership (you should) but you pay nothing for what amounts to a "premium" level ability to, as some would say, raid the II system ahead of the mere paying customers.

As a mini-system member I love it. As an owner and paying member the obvious favoritism shown to these mini groups was one big reason I dropped II and RCI weeks.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

And to think I have the reputation Over Yonder of being an antagonist, one who starts threads purposely to stir the pot.

As those of us who have said what you are saying those of us have said, it is the system that was sold as a closed system, exclusive to owners somewhere, with other resorts being made available through a closed exchange program, one available only to owners somewhere.

That is obviously what is meant by exclusivity.

That is a fact that only an agitator would debate, IMHO.

(Add smilie to cushion the words.)

I never said I wasn't a pot stirrer, did I? I don't mind that label. As long as the pot is full of Japanese curry beef, I'll stir it all day long. I admit, I used to pester my little sister to see what I could get away with. But, she always won every argument because whenever I was on the verge of winning, she cried to my dad and I got in trouble. LOL.

In fact, I thought that I said that I like to post on thought provoking topics. That is what a pot stirrer does.

I posted this because I saw someone post just this week on the topic of exclusivity on the WorldMark board and it struck me as odd that they used the argument of exclusivity. When I thought about it more, I concluded that timesharing was indeed not exclusive.

If timesharing was sold on the basis of a closed system of owners exchanging weeks, I can understand that they would be upset when the exchange system was opened up. But, what they bought was an ownership in real estate and a separate membership into an exchange company. The exclusivity was not real. It would have been exclusive if they bought an undivided interest in all of the resorts in the system. Then, they would have ownership rights into the exchange methods of the system.

To me, when non-owners are allowed into a system, it is not exclusive. That is what happens when a non-owner exchanges into a resort.

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

I don't know what you mean about the mini-systems syphoning off the best times? Are you saying that, say, Fairfield, can grab a mittful for its own members?

I'd like to learn more about this - please point me in the right direction.

You should go over and read the Yahoo Fairfield Group BB. When there is a bulk space bank of a FF Hawaii 2 bedroom only resort there is a frensy of generic blue studios picking up 2 br hawaii trades. This is a result of a resort group prioity. There might be some limits but many low end FF weeks are picking up high end FF weeks for a low point value.

In addition mini systems like Hilton and Starwood bulk space bank so they can hold back high demand weeks for internal owner use and only deposit fringe weeks to RCI or II.

Short

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

Accomadations vs Ownership vx Exchange

Boca,
I think we tend to comingle many aspects of the subject and call it timesharing. Some are exclusive and some are not.

Accomadations in the 3000 plus timeshare properties that are members of RCI and II are not exclusive. I can rent nightly stays at many of these units just like I can rent a hotel room. Hotel websites, expedia, resortime, extra holiday, local tourist websites, local realtors. Being a weeks only resort does not generally preclude me from finding nightly stays(maybe 2 or 3 night min) and most resorts I would like to go

Exchange-Sort of exclusive as you need at least one timeshare to join and generally something to trade for something else. Each mini system has their own exclusivity but then pass weeks to RCI and II who have less exclusivity and then pass the excess weeks to Renters who have even less exclusivity as per accomadations above.

Ownership-Again some exclusivity as you need to own something in the Club to get the benefits of the Club. For example HGVC overs bonus time to owners. You cannot get that unless you are an owner. If you want first crack at week 52 in Hawaii you need to own week 52 in Hawaii. It depends on the benefits of ownership as to whether you need or use the exclusive benefits.

Short

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Boca,
I think we tend to comingle many aspects of the subject and call it timesharing. Some are exclusive and some are not.

Accomadations in the 3000 plus timeshare properties that are members of RCI and II are not exclusive. I can rent nightly stays at many of these units just like I can rent a hotel room. Hotel websites, expedia, resortime, extra holiday, local tourist websites, local realtors. Being a weeks only resort does not generally preclude me from finding nightly stays(maybe 2 or 3 night min) and most resorts I would like to go

Exchange-Sort of exclusive as you need at least one timeshare to join and generally something to trade for something else. Each mini system has their own exclusivity but then pass weeks to RCI and II who have less exclusivity and then pass the excess weeks to Renters who have even less exclusivity as per accomadations above.

Ownership-Again some exclusivity as you need to own something in the Club to get the benefits of the Club. For example HGVC overs bonus time to owners. You cannot get that unless you are an owner. If you want first crack at week 52 in Hawaii you need to own week 52 in Hawaii. It depends on the benefits of ownership as to whether you need or use the exclusive benefits.

Short

I agree with you completely, Short.

My point is that the umbrella concept of "exclusivity" was just another sales ploy used to close a today deal.

Since a timeshare operates much more like a hotel than any other accommodation product, that promise of exclusivity was never going to last.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Since a timeshare operates much more like a hotel than any other accommodation product, that promise of exclusivity was never going to last.

Not quite sure about this. I thought based on your post, BG's owner can rent cheaper than no-owner in a BG's system? That is the exclusive right. How much it worth or if it worth the retail price is another issue.

Jya-Ning

[short Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close short]

Not quite sure about this. I thought based on your post, BG's owner can rent cheaper than no-owner in a BG's system? That is the exclusive right. How much it worth or if it worth the retail price is another issue.

Jya-Ning

Jya-Ning,

This is were exclusivity also get muddled. Is access to discounts exclusivity or is access to the accomadations themselves exclusivity. I get discounts through the entertainment book at thousands of Hotels. Is this exclusivity?

I think of exclusivity is whether you can gain access to the accomadations at any price. At one time if I wanted to stay at the Marriott Ocean Club in Maui I would have to own and I would have to own a full week and I would have to own it every year.

The only roadblock to staying there is availability(generally way better than exchanging) and price(probobly not all that much more than if you buy from the developer and way easier to get reservations).

I purchased my timeshares to get access to accomadation inventory at a lower price. I generally get a much bigger discount off the going rental rate but I have to give up flexibility and take on more strigent cancellation policies. The same thing happens at hotels. Internet rates are usually cheaper but noncancellable.

JMHO
Short

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Jya-Ning,

This is were exclusivity also get muddled. Is access to discounts exclusivity or is access to the accomadations themselves exclusivity. I get discounts through the entertainment book at thousands of Hotels. Is this exclusivity?

I think of exclusivity is whether you can gain access to the accomadations at any price. At one time if I wanted to stay at the Marriott Ocean Club in Maui I would have to own and I would have to own a full week and I would have to own it every year.

The only roadblock to staying there is availability(generally way better than exchanging) and price(probobly not all that much more than if you buy from the developer and way easier to get reservations).

I purchased my timeshares to get access to accomadation inventory at a lower price. I generally get a much bigger discount off the going rental rate but I have to give up flexibility and take on more strigent cancellation policies. The same thing happens at hotels. Internet rates are usually cheaper but noncancellable.

JMHO
Short

Exactly........

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Just out of curiosity BB, I vaguely remember when you first showed up Over Yonder. It seems like you were new to timesharing, or perhaps were considering your first purchase, something like that.

Exactly how long have you been timesharing?

[cluemeister Member Find all posts View Profile Close cluemeister]

Different view on exclusivity.

I never got into timesharing as an exclusivity issue. That may have been part of the original developer sales pitch, but never entered into our equation. We started out by renting a timeshare, and then almost bought one when in Vegas while vacationing.

Came back, found TUG, and spent months researching. Eventually picked up a PT's on ebay. The reasons were:

1. Getting a 2BR unit on the strip for the $700 mf. I know this doesn't count acquisition costs, but I believe I will get most or all of that back at time of sale. I won't stay in a hotel room.

2. Buying a ts forces us to go on vacation every year. There's always an excuse not to go on vacation. This means we have to, and we will.

Having only attended one ts presentation, (Marriott), exclusivity was never a sales pitch we heard. Having started out as a renter, exclusivity never came into my mind as a reason for owning a ts.