Property Donation Group: Scam

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

I just found out all I needed to know, Jim..

As far as IA and ATC goes, here is my previous response: (Our understanding is that for the most part these complaints were unfounded....Some poorly informed clients grew impatient and were quick to complain....)

I think many people on these forums are already familiar with the business model used by this organization. If you aren't, simply do some simple searches online.. There have been long discussions on TUG with both positive and negative reports.

Basically, the ownerships seem to be assigned or flipped for a profit.... I have no issue with this model if and all parties are aware of the process. However, that does not seem to be the case.. The "closing package" is created showing the transfer from the seller to the IA employee. However, the final deed is recorded after ridiculous delays (to allow time for another buyer to be found and the property to be flipped) transferring ownership from the client to a new third party. Or the sale cancels if a buyer cannot be found..

Whether dealing with Isaac, Jeff, Jon, Tony, Ed, April, Michelle, Christina, Shelley, Tommy, or Stacy (the names kept changing but the end result did not)- the results were always the same. Unpleasant.. Sorry, Vanessa- but now you are just another name on that unsavory list.

Before you deal with these groups (and the company names are possibly more plentiful than the individual names: IAVacations- American Timeshare Closings - redweeks4less - money4timeshares- Charity Closings- and others.. At this point I simply cringe when I see an address in Sevierville, TN!) just be careful and ensure you perform you full due diligence.

Here are a few questions you can ask:

Why is a POA closing required?

Can you use an independent closing agent at your own expense?

Can the closing group provide you with an escrow account, or the contact information for either a licensed title agent, or attorney who supervises their closings?

Can the closing group provide you with proof that they are licensed as either an escrow agent or a title company?

Can the charity provide you with a current form 990? This tax form will show you basic information about the charity and its tax exempt status, as well as the revenue, expenses, and assets of the organization. Expenses are often broken down into program services (this is money actually used for the stated purpose of the charity), management and payroll, fundraising expenses, and payments to affiliates. If the majority of the money received is spent on payroll and payments to affiliates, it could be a reason for concern...

Finally, if after all of this you still decide to take the risk - PLEASE accept Jim's offer of guidance and help..

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Thanks..

Rikkis Playpen, good luck finding an "actual" client that is unhappy, but if you do then the $100 is yours.

How about the Rivera family? They originally signed docs in Oct of 07 and they finally completed in July of 08.. For an Orlando week with no ROFR- closing should have taken about 4 to 6 weeks at most. It finally ended up being deeded to a Holthaus after the contract was first assigned from an Ely to a Stephens. Closing was performed by a Michelle Chandler, American Timeshare Closing, LLC- Po Box 4578, Sevierville, TN 37864.

Frank can provide you with instruction on how to make a donation to this site if you are willing to do so..

[PDG Member Find all posts View Profile Close PDG]

Poa

Here is Stacy's response to POA: (As for the POA. It's required because it costs us money to transfer properties and also time. We used to send contracts before without POA and we would either spend the time typing the deed and sending it to the client and then we would never hear from them again or if its a property we could sell we would time and money finding a buyer and then when we send the deed to to seller they would decide to back out. As for properties that aren't worth anything we are doing them a favor to take it off their hands. We don't have a problem with them saying no to using our service.) Also they can provide any escrow or licensing details that you want. As for using your own closing company we have already made it clear and will reiterate: We use the same company because we have a system that is already in place. We are not interested in dealing with thousands of real estate lawyers and unfamiliar closing companies. About the Rivera family, etc,., those were not our clients so that argument is irrelevant to PDG. I will continue to repeat myself until it sinks in. You may want to read the thread in it's entirety before you try to bad mouth us again. Thank You

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I think this is an excellent thread. It's excellent because it illustrates what happens behind the scenes of a timeshare purchase and transfer.

The cleanest and most transparent approach that has the most consumer protection is the one that Rich describes. It is the fully brokered model with a licensed and bonded title company. Brokers get paid commission for selling listings. This results in the cleanest sale. The downside is that the cost can be higher. But, you are getting more protection. And, deeds are more likely to be done properly when working with a licensed title company and their real estate attorneys.

The model that PDG appears to be using is one very similar to the one used by Post Card companies and related business models. It, too, can work. It also tends to have a lower cost structure so the purchasers tend to get a better price. However, there are additional risks. Money isn't typically held in escrow and granting POA can be an issue because you never know exactly what someone is signing on your behalf. I would only grant POA to someone I absolutely trust. You chances of getting ripped off are higher than in the full brokered model.

So, in essence, both models can work. But, there is issues and risks with both. Before you make a timeshare purchase or agree to have someone help you, you should know the difference. If you get a great price, you need to know why and what risks you bear for going down that path.

[PDG Member Find all posts View Profile Close PDG]

I agree with BocaBum99

That is why we make it very clear to our clients what's involved before taking their business and also why we have no consumer complaints. If we did have a complaint I wonder why they never let us know? Our phone IS on and our email accounts ARE active.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Welcome anyway.... Perhaps you'll donate one day!

Our phone IS on and our email accounts ARE active.

You know that saying, "The lights are on but nobody's home."

I hope you do stay active on here. It's a great place to learn about the industry, both the positive and negative aspects.. Be aware, though- many of the regulars are pretty good at discovering a wolf in sheep's clothing, and evidently know just what to do about it!


(And I NEVER thought I'd find the appropriate thread for that smilie!)

[PDG Member Find all posts View Profile Close PDG]

sounds good

You know that saying, "The lights are on but nobody's home."

I hope you do stay active on here. It's a great place to learn about the industry, both the positive and negative aspects.. Be aware, though- many of the regulars are pretty good at discovering a wolf in sheep's clothing, and evidently know just what to do about it!


(And I NEVER thought I'd find the appropriate thread for that smilie!)

If one of our clients fails to notify us of a problem we want to know about it one way or the other so that's fine with us. And yes, we will contribute to your forum soon.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

And yes, we will contribute to your forum soon.

[chriskre Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close chriskre]

...... pretty good at discovering a wolf in sheep's clothing, and evidently know just what to do about it!


(And I NEVER thought I'd find the appropriate thread for that smilie!)

Love the sheep.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Interesting thread and picture too, Frank but enough information to learn something too for someone who wants to get rid of a timeshare that is of no use to them anymore.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

How'd you get the Springer footage to embed?

[Greyman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Greyman]

Rikkis Playpen, good luck finding an "actual" client that is unhappy, but if you do then the $100 is yours. We would very much appreciate to know if there is a problem so we can better serve our clients. BocaBum99, we would be totally open to work with you on any timeshare matters in the future. If a timeshare owner can give their ownership back to the resort or find another way out that doesn't cost money then good for them. As far as IA and ATC goes, here is my previous response: (Our understanding is that for the most part these complaints were unfounded. As most of you know the closing process can take up to 120 days which can seem like an eternity to someone who is eager to be done with their timeshare. Third parties that use Mr. Gillespie closing services often neglect to inform their client of the possibility of a delay of up to 120 days before the process is completed. Some poorly informed clients grew impatient and were quick to complain. These complaints have been answered but the BBB isn't clearing them because IA and ATC refuse to pay the membership fee.) I am pleased to discuss anything in the open. We don't throw stones, we just tell it straight. Have a great evening everyone.

I have been following this thread with a mixture of disbelief and amusement since PDG starting responding. I have seen quite a few crooks, cons, and BS artists during my 50-plus years on this earth and I have to admit that PDG is right up there in the top tier, if for no other reason than their sheer brazenness. They seem to have a pat answer for everything, even if their answers contradict one another.

I won't bother to waste my time refuting everything "Vanessa" has posted. I believe that anyone who would send money to this crowd after reading this thread probably deserves the experience it would provide them.

Let me just respond to the assertion that "everyone knows" that the BBB isn't a reliable source of consumer information and that they only "clear" complaints against their dues-paying members. (You do realize, don't you "Vanessa," that you are accusing a very reputable non-profit organization of extortion?)

If Gillespie's complaint history with the BBB is not valid, then why is ATC LLC currently on the Buyer Beware List published by the Consumer Affairs Division of the Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance?

http://tn.gov/consumer/documents/Buy...reList_022.pdf

The only way to get on this list is if you have had a consumer complaint filed against you within the past 24 months and have submitted no response to the Consumer Affairs Division. If you contest the validity of the complaint, you don't go on the list.

"If you sleep with dogs, you're gonna get fleas."

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

And yes, we will contribute to your forum soon.

I just wanted to make a note that this posted on the 7th, did PDG forget us?

[PDG Member Find all posts View Profile Close PDG]

I have been following this thread with a mixture of disbelief and amusement since PDG starting responding. I have seen quite a few crooks, cons, and BS artists during my 50-plus years on this earth and I have to admit that PDG is right up there in the top tier, if for no other reason than their sheer brazenness. They seem to have a pat answer for everything, even if their answers contradict one another.

I won't bother to waste my time refuting everything "Vanessa" has posted. I believe that anyone who would send money to this crowd after reading this thread probably deserves the experience it would provide them.

Let me just respond to the assertion that "everyone knows" that the BBB isn't a reliable source of consumer information and that they only "clear" complaints against their dues-paying members. (You do realize, don't you "Vanessa," that you are accusing a very reputable non-profit organization of extortion?)

If Gillespie's complaint history with the BBB is not valid, then why is ATC LLC currently on the Buyer Beware List published by the Consumer Affairs Division of the Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance?

http://tn.gov/consumer/documents/Buy...reList_022.pdf

The only way to get on this list is if you have had a consumer complaint filed against you within the past 24 months and have submitted no response to the Consumer Affairs Division. If you contest the validity of the complaint, you don't go on the list.

"If you sleep with dogs, you're gonna get fleas."

"Don't Shoot The Messenger"