Our situation

[David LS Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David LS]

I'm very new to this, so I apologize if I'm asking a series of basic questions.

We're in Hawaii and got the sales pitch - we declined, mainly based on our lack of knowledge. The main gist was to buy 77k points at Wyndham Bali Hai and snap onto it other timeshares onto it, making us VIPs. A close relative of mine wishes to practically give my wife and I her timeshares (3 in Hawaii, one in Florida) as she is tired of the maintenance fees and her, now, physical issues w/traveling. These are the ones to "snap on." It was all very glowing to be too good to be true.

It got us thinking, though. We're thinking of basically taking on the timeshares for a $4k purchase and using them to trip elsewhere (London, Alaska, etc.). This appears that it could be worth it, but, I know that 1) one maintenance fee is $900 and 2) they are in weeks (it appears points are better).

I'm trying to sort out the 1) other fees and when and 2) how these weeks are available and 3) can they be used for London and 4) are they all RCI, etc, etc.

Does buying 4 timeshares for $4k make sense?

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

As for spending the intial 4K, is this to the friend or a TS developer?

Only you could truly decide what your economics allow for the initial $$, but the rule of thumb we use here is that you should be very careful about strapping yourself to annual MF's and such for the "hope" of finding the perfect trade with your units.

Also, special assessments happen all the time, and you have to pay them along with the MF....be sure that you can afford these along with the SA's.

Welcome to the forum, and keep reading....I know that lots of folks are here to help you and will guide you to the best answer for you!

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

Hi and Welcome to the forums.

Never buy directly from Wyndham - you can buy their points for pennies on the dollar resale.
77K points will get you a studio unit at best and not at a great time of year.

Please let us know the names of the TSs, the time of year the ownership is and the size of the units that your friend wants to "gift" you and the yearly fees. hawaii weeks usually have high fees.

Starting off with one or 2 would be the way to go if they are places u want to visit two out of 3 years....

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

The Wyndham sales agent is giving you info about their pic point program. It basically works in this manner: You already own non-Wyndham timeshares. You agree to purchase a small point package and in turn, Wyndham agrees to give you a predetermined point allotment each year in exchange for your non-Wyndham weeks. This enables you to get VIP status at a much lower cost than a full developer purchase, and (more importantly to the developer) enables the sales staff to sell existing timeshare owners and overcome their objection that they already own and pay annual fees. I actually like this sales model much better than the developer or Holiday Group trade in models that are common in Mexico.. Wyndham then hopes to rent these outside units via it's Endless Vacations group.

It's not a bad sales program, but it still has to be compared to resales!

Now... With respect to your specific situation.

You don't already own these other weeks so you don't have a pre-existing maintenance fee obligation. Resale prices are incredibly low! 1 to 2 cents per annual point is quite common now. You can like buy 300,000 to 500,000 Wyndham pts on resale for only $3,000 or $4,000. The only real difference is the VIP status. (You won't get than on your resale purchase)..

What you will want to do, is really research the value a VIP status will give you. If you feel it is worthwhile, then the developer plan might be possible (again- remember that you'll have to acquire the other timeshare weeks first!).. If you discover that the VIP privilege is not really that big of a deal- then simply buy resale..

If you need a broker referral- simply ask on this site.

Good luck and try and enjoy your vacation! Any deal that is offered to you- decline for now until you have the time to research- and you can always call back later and the sales mgr will honor it!

[David LS Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David LS]

Answers

The timeshares our relative is interested in giving up are not developer related. Also, the $4k is just a guess - the relative has indicated that she wishes to just give them to us - we don't feel comfortable w/that. Of course, part of that depends fees, etc. The timeshares are Bali Hai, Kaeo Kai and Lawaii Beach in Hawaii and High Point in Florida. I don't know exactly what times of year and I believe they are all 2 bedrooms. I only know of the $900 fee.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

As far as what to give the relative for the timeshares, I would look at what similar weeks are bringing these days on eBay. If you buy anything these days, do it resale. It is a buyers market.

[David LS Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close David LS]

Your answers

Hey, by the way - big time thanks for your time and input.

[katiemack Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close katiemack]

The timeshares our relative is interested in giving up are not developer related. Also, the $4k is just a guess - the relative has indicated that she wishes to just give them to us - we don't feel comfortable w/that. Of course, part of that depends fees, etc. The timeshares are Bali Hai, Kaeo Kai and Lawaii Beach in Hawaii and High Point in Florida. I don't know exactly what times of year and I believe they are all 2 bedrooms. I only know of the $900 fee.

I do know that Hawaii fees tend to run high, and then there are renovations and other costs that spring up...but it seems you are trying to help out a relative...if you want to give her some $$, by all means, do so, but just know that it may mean more to her that she gave them to you and if in the future there is a problem with the resorts, she won't have any guilt about it because she didn't accept any payment...a gift might work better for her peace of mind.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Ok.. Those make it a little more confusing. Two of those are former Pahio resorts (now run by Wyndham) so it's possible they would be converting those instead of the PIC program. The other two are non-Wyndham so they would have to be enrolled as PIC points.

Even if she gives them to you (the Pahio's have a ROFR process which may muck things up a little)- you'll have the closing costs (approx $400 for each) as well as the resort transfer fees (approx $700 for all). The annual dues for all four will end up at approx $3200 each year (plus you'll have the additional fees for the Wyndham purchase itself).. You would then have to include the purchase price for the Wyndham 77,000 pt package (approx $11,000 if you got through a few TO's and they waived the additional PIC and conversion fees)..

Total estimated cost for acquisition: $12,500 (if she gives you all four for free).

If you are doing this to help out your relative- OK.. But, just looking at the numbers- it would seem to be much cheaper to buy the same number of points on resale at $5,000 to $5,500 (purchase price, est. closing, and transfer fee).

****

For readers interested in a little history lesson about Wyndham PIC program and the price difference between this same purchase scenario versus a straight 300,000 point developer purchase.. Wyndham charges approx $40,000 to $50,000 for a 300,000 annual pt contract.

PIC (Personal Interval Choice) purchases used to be a great way to save money on a developer purchase and still obtain Platinum VIP benefits. Many buyers used to employ a strategy of buying a few annual red week 4br villas at Massanutten- then making a 77,000 pt purchase at a Wyndham resort and using the pic program to convert the Massanutten weeks into Wyndham points.. They could end up with a million points and keep the VIP privilege intact at a fraction of the cost of buying all points directly from Wyndham.

Now, however- as the resale market has continued to see declining prices for Wyndham Vacation Club- even using a PIC strategy costs far more than simply buying resale. And the declining "VIP" benefits have further deteriorated the value of using the PIC strategy. Until Wyndham can discover some way to implement price controls to help push resale pricing back up ( such as an active reacquisition program which would cost them millions!), I'm amazed that anyone buys directly from the developer any longer. It's just too easy to buy the same points via resale for up to 95% less!