Resorts that accept deedbacks

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Understand the logic- but there is something really wrong with that thinking...

Great points Steve. Right on the money. Any deed back offer bt it's very nature needs to be done quietly and as little as possible. It is a tremendous risk to the Association.

With all respect, in an industry that continues to SCREAM for transparency, the idea that associations need to only accept deedbacks via a cloak and dagger system of secret whispers and personal favors just seems wrong.

By saying this, the association would also be making the statement that vacation ownerships at their resort are without any value- and that the very existence of the property depends on forcing unhappy owners to continue paying annual fees by threatening them with strong arm collection agents and by impacting the credit rating of the defaulting owners..

Isn't it time that at least the owner's associations themselves began to believe in the product that they manage? Resorts need to be creative and find solutions other than simply holding timeshare owners hostage. Why can't resort managers get involved with their local community and make their resort useful to locals as well as vacationers.

If it is just low season weeks that have no value- amend the declarations and create a points system with that inventory with very low annual fees and give this to locals. Allow them to utilize the amenities, rent conference rooms, cater to the local service groups, hold dart tournaments, flea markets- something.. Anything to create some revenue in the off season.

The time for hiding things in this industry has passed.. Fear and deception, and most importantly an overall lack of faith is what is killing this industry even more so than the economy.

If a timeshare resort is just not sustainable financially- then bankrupt it and shut it down. End the misery. Retraction in an industry is never easy, but sometimes is necessary for survival.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

I fully agree with the need to end "cloak & dagger" measures and support efforts to make things as open as possible in what is unfortunately a sleazy industry now. But doing so for any deedback offer virtually guarantees an end to any such progrm as the exposure to an overwhelming thus unsustainable response is too great. Remaining owners who had no intentions of selling or defaulting facing higher fees to pay for thosr that took the offer.would likely, wisely take it too as self protection. Bad for all and a tough spot to get out of. Better to avoid it all by not offering deed backs or being careful not to make them an overly attractive option. Does that mean secrecy? No, but vareful release of information only to those in true need. Or to no one. It isn't possible to have a viable operation yet offer a free / no or low cost out to all.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

Offering deedbacks is, in fact, proclaiming that weeks have no value, and is thus very counterproductive.

You also seem to overlook the fact that HOA's at sold out resorts do not have sales staffs to resell the weeks deeded back. The resale channels that they do work move some weeks, but not if the system is overloaded by inviting deedbacks. Many of the better managed HOA's are already quite creative on ways to resell weeks, but without the organized tourflows that developers arrange, it is a slower operation.

You also seem to have an extremely unrealistic concept of what it takes to amend the governing docs of a timeshare. For many it is so difficult it verges on the impossible as a practical matter. Besides most own-to-use members, the ones with the best participation in HOA's tend to be highly allergic to points in the first place.

You also seem not to recognize how a deeded timeshare is organized. Bankrupting the HOA, which might well not qualify for bankruptcy in the first place, still leaves each of the owners owning a timeshare week and they then just organize another HOA. To terminate a timeshare requires a supermajority if it was organized post- Uniform Condominium Act or unanimous consent if it was organized before the Uniform Condominium Act was adopted in the state. That is not an easy proposition.

With all respect, in an industry that continues to SCREAM for transparency, the idea that associations need to only accept deedbacks via a cloak and dagger system of secret whispers and personal favors just seems wrong.

By saying this, the association would also be making the statement that vacation ownerships at their resort are without any value- and that the very existence of the property depends on forcing unhappy owners to continue paying annual fees by threatening them with strong arm collection agents and by impacting the credit rating of the defaulting owners..

Isn't it time that at least the owner's associations themselves began to believe in the product that they manage? Resorts need to be creative and find solutions other than simply holding timeshare owners hostage. Why can't resort managers get involved with their local community and make their resort useful to locals as well as vacationers.

If it is just low season weeks that have no value- amend the declarations and create a points system with that inventory with very low annual fees and give this to locals. Allow them to utilize the amenities, rent conference rooms, cater to the local service groups, hold dart tournaments, flea markets- something.. Anything to create some revenue in the off season.

The time for hiding things in this industry has passed.. Fear and deception, and most importantly an overall lack of faith is what is killing this industry even more so than the economy.

If a timeshare resort is just not sustainable financially- then bankrupt it and shut it down. End the misery. Retraction in an industry is never easy, but sometimes is necessary for survival.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Offering deedbacks is a reasonable alternative to foreclosing and a good way to get non performing weeks into a sales program. Those resorts that don't do it are not acting responsibly in managing the resort. Selling weeks on that resort week's premisies is a lot easier and gets better prices than on line sales.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

What I am calling for is simply more creativity from associations and resort management companies.. Each resort will have an entirely unique situation, so will obviously require a unique answer. Admittedly, I'm throwing pasta at the wall to see what sticks- but it is new ideas that are needed. The old way of doing things does not work any longer..

Let's make an agreement that for each idea we shoot down, we also add another idea to the thread.. I would expect that the vast majority of the ideas will be unrealistic, but hopefully we will come up with a few good ones that will be helpful to a struggling resort association.

My idea of pushing non-performing weeks into a trust from which small point packages can be sold may not be a reasonable solution for some properties. But there must be a simple way to do this..

The idea behind it was simple. There are numerous resorts which allow day usage of the amenities to owners, and thus have been able to attract interval owners from within the community who desire nothing more than access to the pool, exercise facility, and conference rooms. It's the country club mentality- and it works..

For a resort with a defined off season that does not perform- the opportunity to sell (or even gift) some type of interest could allow for this type of community marketing to be effective. Instead of a $800. per year maintenance fee, how about a $10. per month fee to own the udi equivalent of a day given to locals who want access to the amenities. This creates the same revenue stream at the end of the year, and creates a reasonable "value" for a local buyer- many of whom quite possibly pay more to belong to a local gym full of intimidating muscleheads where they feel out of place.

The same type of program could target local diners if the resort has an onsite restaurant.. How about 25% off of meals (most restaurants have room for that in their price models) or unrestricted happy hour for owners. How about 25% off salon services? How about 50% off the rental rate for a conference room? Consumers love loyalty programs, so bring the same concept to a small timeshare.

This type of service model would not only create revenue from annual fees, but also create revenue for the affiliated businesses onsite.

A resort will simply have to determine what assets is has, and then work to maximize the potential from those assets. In the simplest terms- many resorts will simply have to transition from a sales mindset to a service mindset.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

It's been reported to me that Alhambra Villas in Poinciana will accept deedbacks for a fee of $250.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

It's being reported that Breezy Pointe in Minnesota will accept deedbacks from owners but require a release payment of approx $1,000.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

It is being reported that Cape Winds resort in Massachusetts will accept deedbacks in return for a payment equal to three times the current maintenance fees.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

It is being reported that Club Casa Dorado Beach & Golf (now called Dreams Resort) will accept owner relinquishment at this time.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Scott Riddle, a respected long time timeshare owner/marketer, has recently posted a very good analysis of why it is critical that Associations NOT accept deed backs unless they have a ready mrket for them (ie - existing, paying owners will not be hit for the fees going forward). I agree that simply taking back any weeks offered without a new owner in the mix is most likely a death spiral for most resorts. They have to be more creative and find ways to9 have those weeks generate fees or they are on a path to alienate and eventually lose their best paying owners.

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Scott Riddle, a respected long time timeshare owner/marketer, has recently posted a very good analysis of why it is critical that Associations NOT accept deed backs unless they have a ready mrket for them

John,

Could you point me in the right direction for obtaining this analysis.

Thanks, Charles

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

I was just informed that Silverleaf accepted a owner relinquishment. It was a red season at Villages. There was no cost to the owner. She was upset that none of the bonus time programs could be transferred via resale, and stated that she would have a difficult time giving it away. Owner Services responded that they would accept it back and sent her a deed.

Not sure if this would work for anyone else, but it is certainly worth a try!

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

It was on TUG

John, Could you point me in the right direction for obtaining this analysis. Thanks, Charles

John sent me the following:

"It's post # 19 in this thread on TUG.
I have a question and need advice - Timeshare Users Group Online Community Forums "

Charles

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

No offense intended.. But that is the same old story and excuse.. The association does not know what to do with the junk weeks and can't monetize them, so doesn't want to be on the hook financially.

I understand the issue and financial ramifications- so I also don't believe that any association without a plan to monetize HOA inventory should accept deedbacks.

However- I very strongly believe that any association board without a plan to monetize inventory should be quickly replaced. Far too many boards just sit on their hands and never even attempt to do anything other than enlist a collection agency to squeeze as much money as possible. When the vacancy ratio gets too high, they'll then hope to sell off inventory en masse to other developers.

At least in Scott's post he admits that the same boards that decline accepting individual weeks will have already accepted a large block of unsold inventory from the developer when onsite sales stopped.

The current system for resort management is broken in many cases. Associations have to be willing look at new ideas. There are a number of people in the industry who believe that hundreds of resorts may close in the next few years due to financial failure as more owners abandon weeks or pay relief companies to take them, who in turn simply abandon the weeks. Ed Hastry's group even claims that this will happen to approximately 300 resorts in 2012 alone (which of the self-proclaimed experts made that prediction I don't know).

Something has to happen.. It just makes no sense to me for associations to bury their heads in the sand and hope the economy improves and people start paying their timeshare bills again.

Here are a few simple ideas:
* To complete a transfer, the association no only checks the financial standing of the seller's account- but also the buyer's account. If any balance is showing as due on the books- the transfer is rejected. (This may be stretching the current rules and regs, but I doubt this policy would require any changes to the condo declaration since the resort already has the right and ability to check financial status prior to accepting a new deed).

* Resorts with stagnant or dead seasons attempt to reacquire those intervals through deedback, buyback, weeks swaps with another affiliated resort, etc. They can then close down the property off-season (since it appears that the resort loses money during this period anyway). If some owners won't agree- then simply reduce services and amenities offered during that period to a bare bones operation and just provide lodging.

* Monetize amenities and other services via independent contractor agreements. In other words- lease the pool to a local swimming instructor for a few hours each week, lease the pool and game room for birthday parties and social events, create a revenue share with a tennis coach to use the tennis courts for a day or two, if you have a commercial laundry set up solicit some local restaurants to wash their tablecloths and aprons overnight. Lease the conference room to a start up ministry. Sell lemonade and rice crispy treats on the sidewalk.

Just try something.. And let the owner's base know that you are trying! Solicit ideas from your owner base. Just don't give up! It's amazing with a little positive thinking can sometimes accomplish.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Acadia Village Resort accepts deedbacks if nothing is owed on the unit and a fee is paid. They do reserve the right to cease the program.