VRI seems to be fighting the PCC's

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

http://tstoday.com/members/magazine/...%20warning.pdf

It looks like they are encouraging their resorts to treat weeks conveyed to the dummy LLC's of the PCC's as fraudulent conveyances.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

http://tstoday.com/members/magazine/...%20warning.pdf

It looks like they are encouraging their resorts to treat weeks conveyed to the dummy LLC's of the PCC's as fraudulent conveyances.

A bold and brilliant move.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

With 160 resorts they need to be aggressive against this scourge and they have been leading the charge. They should be supported by all in this fight. (I would hope even e.bram would go along but...)

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

They may have a legitimate case as many of the PCC's never transfer the ownership to themselves or whatever outfit liquidates them. The last timeshare(non VRI) I bought was directly transferred from the original owner to me---presumably leaving out the two parties in between. The real problem only occurs when there is no sale and no transfer which often happens. I'm sure governmental bodies would also like fees for the intermediate transfers. On the other hand my paying only $ 98 for the transfer was a definite favorable selling point.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I think it's appropriate for weeks that are deeded to dummy companies who default on their maintenance fees.

If all PCC transfers are voided, there will be many new ebay owners that get hurt in the process, unless the ebay deeds go right from seller to buyer without getting transferred to PCC in between.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

I think they may have a difficult time proving the intent to defraud.. If the holding company can show an attempt to sell or rent the interests as well as some completed sales or rentals, it will likely be very difficult to prove that the intent was to abandon rather than just a failed resale or rental business venture..

In this country, it is not illegal to fail in a business venture.. It happens all the time! How many real estate developers begin projects that are never finished, and then simply abandon those businesses in time.. It only feels like a crime to the victims who are hurt by the failure..

I don't like these groups, but I think this is just another example of panic and industry bluffing... Unfortunately- this is a common step that occurs when an established industry is threatened by a new business model..

1) They begin by ignoring the threat.. Believing they are too established to be concerned by what starts as a small venture.

2) They then attempt to legislate them out of business.. (This doesn't work either, since the new business generally meets a need that isn't served by the established industry).

3) They will attempt other legal action, which also fails... (By this time, the new entity has established enough of a niche and market share to have the financial ability to fight and win)..

4) They either copy the model, or just make room in the industry for the new player..

Right now- depending on which industry behemoth we consider they are somewhere between steps two and four.. Established industry is almost always too slow and set in their ways to deal with effective new business models, and even though I do not like the timeshare relief programs I do have to admit that they serve a need that has not been addressed by timeshare developers and that they are now firmly established as a part of the timeshare industry..

More resorts are creating their own "pay us to take back your timeshare" models.. I think this will continue.. What they eventually do with those intervals will be the interesting part!


The only question now is whether in the long term they cripple the timeshare industry, or if it can evolve in time to absorb the threat..

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

The problem is not the PCC business model. The PCC business model is fine. If someone wants to pay someone to get rid of their timeshare, they should be able to do it.

The real problem is that many timeshares are worthless. That is directly the responsibility of the Board of Directors of the HOA. These resorts need to take dramatic action to create resale value for their intervals. If they don't, they deserve to fail.

The only legislation required is that timeshare resorts should be required by law to take deed backs for any and all timeshare intervals. They can charge a reasonable fee of say 1 or 2 years maintenance fees. Until they do something like this, they have absolutely no moral authority against the PCCs.

[gandalf252002 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gandalf252002]

Filling a service not provided by the resorts is exactly the the PCC's do and I despise them the same as most. The reason we have issues with them is more often then not the effect they have on us when they default on the MF's increasing ours. Not sure how doing deedback's though will change this. Whenever MF's are not paid whether it be through PCC's defaulting, owners' defaulting or simply not having an interval sold to collect MF's somebody else has to pay and that is going to be the other owners. As much as I like the idea of giving back my ownership I do not see personally how this is going to help the other owners. The only way is if the developer can re-sell it in order to start collecting MF's again. As we all know the market is down for both developer's and resales, so there is no reason to believe that a developer is going to have any more luck selling than a PCC.

The problem is not the PCC business model. The PCC business model is fine. If someone wants to pay someone to get rid of their timeshare, they should be able to do it.

The only legislation required is that timeshare resorts should be required by law to take deed backs for any and all timeshare intervals. They can charge a reasonable fee of say 1 or 2 years maintenance fees. Until they do something like this, they have absolutely no moral authority against the PCCs.

I don't like these groups, but I think this is just another example of panic and industry bluffing... Unfortunately- this is a common step that occurs when an established industry is threatened by a new business model..

More resorts are creating their own "pay us to take back your timeshare" models.. I think this will continue.. What they eventually do with those intervals will be the interesting part!

[Ridewithme38 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ridewithme38]

The problem is not the PCC business model. The PCC business model is fine. If someone wants to pay someone to get rid of their timeshare, they should be able to do it.

The real problem is that many timeshares are worthless. That is directly the responsibility of the Board of Directors of the HOA. These resorts need to take dramatic action to create resale value for their intervals. If they don't, they deserve to fail.

The only legislation required is that timeshare resorts should be required by law to take deed backs for any and all timeshare intervals. They can charge a reasonable fee of say 1 or 2 years maintenance fees. Until they do something like this, they have absolutely no moral authority against the PCCs.

I agree with Boca.....

I think alot can be done if the Resorts start taking Deedbacks for 1-2yrs maintance fees...IF i was an owner at a place i really liked...and the HOA offered to sell me another week, with 2yrs MF already paid...i'd take it alot quicker then from a random seller on ebay

[BWolf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BWolf]

I agree with Boca.....

I think alot can be done if the Resorts start taking Deedbacks for 1-2yrs maintance fees...IF i was an owner at a place i really liked...and the HOA offered to sell me another week, with 2yrs MF already paid...i'd take it alot quicker then from a random seller on ebay

I like the idea as well.

I certainly would not like paying more than 2 years MF.

--------------

I wonder what is in it for VRI? I know one of our VRI managed resorts has an active resale program. Perhaps VRI would like to start a VRI-wide resale program? Units they don't sell become "specials" or go on the rental market. Money can be made this way.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

I think they may have a difficult time proving the intent to defraud.. If the holding company can show an attempt to sell or rent the interests as well as some completed sales or rentals, it will likely be very difficult to prove that the intent was to abandon rather than just a failed resale or rental business venture..

In this country, it is not illegal to fail in a business venture.. It happens all the time! How many real estate developers begin projects that are never finished, and then simply abandon those businesses in time.. It only feels like a crime to the victims who are hurt by the failure..

I don't like these groups, but I think this is just another example of panic and industry bluffing... Unfortunately- this is a common step that occurs when an established industry is threatened by a new business model..

It isn't that tough go prove when their stated plan is to abandon the property regardless of any half-hearted attempts to sell it.

This isn't some type of brillant new business model but yet another way go get big dollars out of owners who just want to be out of an obligation they no longer need. Fortunately for the same amount or less they can usually deal with the resort to properly handle the issue & that, combined with ever increasing criminal prosecution, seems to be putting a serious hurt on this "business model". I don't see it as a long term problem once efforts are made to control it and make unattractive as an option. This appears to be happening quickly as word is spread. Some borderline resorts will fail in part due to this but if so they probably weren't viable from the start. The industry needs a serious shake out & downsizing.

[ampaholic Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ampaholic]

It almost reads as if VRI is gearing up (in a slow behemoth way) to "compete" with the typical PCC business model with regards to deedbacks.

If this is the direction they are headed the PCC may be the endangered species.

IMO

MROP actually pioneered this - you have been able to deedback (not sure if that's the right word) an MROP membership for quite some time - for a fee of course.

[ampaholic Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ampaholic]

-snip- The industry needs a serious shake out & downsizing.

True enough.

One of my resorts in Wisconsin is aggressively marketing itself as a sort of "everymans" Country Club.

They are using the common facilities for weddings, family reunions, corporate events to generate money. They are also renting unused intervals to generate funds.

I appreciate the effort to keep MF's down and keep the resort viable

I think a little creativity by the management is a good thing in this area.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

It almost reads as if VRI is gearing up (in a slow behemoth way) to "compete" with the typical PCC business model with regards to deedbacks.

If this is the direction they are headed the PCC may be the endangered species.

IMO

MROP actually pioneered this - you have been able to deedback (not sure if that's the right word) an MROP membership for quite some time - for a fee of course.

And VRI is also the management companry for MROP. Co-inky-dinse?