Curious about BlueGreen

[Pit Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pit]

I've been looking into the Fairfield points system for awhile and am considering the purchase of a small points package (resale, of course) for use and/or exchange, but I'm in no hurry.

I like FF due to their resort locations in Wisconsin Dells and Tenn, both places I frequently vacation. But, then I read about BlueGreen -- also has resorts in the Dells and Tenn. So, BG is another option for me, perhaps a better option.

I've been reading a bunch of threads, but I don't understand the differences between BG points and the different CMV variants (blended, Cottage, Timbers). Anyone know where I can find a good primer on this subject?

Any comments on FF vs. BG? What is the approx cost in m/f when exchanging via RCI with BG? Can BG points be used like FF points, where one can deposit a specific week or use "generic" deposits?

Thanks in advance for any help.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Pit,

Let me take a crack at answering your questions. Please feel free to post as many questions as you have here. We have lots of experts available who can help you out.

First, Christmas Mountain Village. Before Christmas Mountain Village became a points resort, it was like all other timeshares at the time which offered various weeks based offerings (fixed, floating, etc). The concept of the UDI was nothing more than a special type of ownership at Christmas Mountain Village. Brucecz can provide you the history of that type of ownership which is really fascinating to me, which as I recall was created because there was a time when the resort had trouble selling out. So, they created this special type of ownership to facilitate sales.

I believe in 1994, Christmas Mountain Village became a member of RDI Group (Resort Development International) which created a 20 resort points club with Christmas Mountain Village as one of its member resorts. Bluegreen bought RDI in 1997 and those 20 resorts formed the nucleus for what we know today as the Bluegreen Vacation Club.

So, when you see concepts like UDI or Flex, Floating or fixed weeks at Christmas Mountain Village, people are referring to different ownership types at that resort that have existed for 10-20 years. So, the Bluegreen Vacation Club co-exists with these early weeks based offerings. Owners of all types are managed by Bluegreen and the Bluegreen reservation line assists owners with bookings of all types whether it be for a UDI, fixed or floating week or points.

If you like Christmas Mountain Village and want to own there, you need to decide what type of ownership you want. Bluegreen will only sell you Bluegreen Vacation Club points today. But, you can buy any type of ownership on the resale market depending on your specific needs.

If you are only interested in the Bluegreen Vacation Club, then you can buy Bluegreen points from any source and you will be able to book reservations into any of the available Christmas Mountain Village resorts along with the other Bluegreen Vacation Club resorts.

There is one type of ownership called the blended UDI which is a very special class of ownership. It was created when owners were allowed to "convert" their UDIs into points. Many did and so they were able to retain many of the benefits of their UDI ownerships while also using the Bluegreen Vacation Club. Bluegreen is no longer converting these UDI ownerships into points. They are very popular with people who like the UDI, but also want access to the BVC.

Hope this helps.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Fairfield and Bluegreen have much in common, but diverge in several areas. George Donovan, the CEO of Bluegreen Corporation, was the President of Fairfield Communities from April 1979 to December 1985. He was the creator of the FairShare program which was the original weeks based program in Fairfield. In most owner updates, the Bluegreen sales guys will tell you that George ran Fairfield and decided to make a better points system. I think that is partially true. Fairfield introduced Fairshare Plus in 1991 which is the original Fairfield points program. Bluegreen bought RDI in 1997 and has been fine-tuning and adding to it ever since.

So, how does this relate to today's programs. At the highest levels, I would say that Fairfield resorts are a half step above Bluegreen resorts and tend to be in slightly better locations. Fairfield tends to have more resort amenities. Bluegreen tends to focus their attention on the actual rooms. Fairfield is much larger in both numbers of resorts and numbers of owners. Fairfield has a really nice product called the 4 bedroom penthouse. It is fantastic.

Fairfield maintenance fees are quite a bit higher than Bluegreens. Bluegreen upfront capital costs are higher. As I mentioned on another thread a 2 bedroom unit in Fairfield ranges from around 154,000-203,000 points for prime season. Some are more, some are less. In Bluegreen it about 9000-16,000 points.

So, if you were to buy 154,000 Fairfield points or 9000 Bluegreen points, here is roughly what you would pay. This will tend to get you 2 bedroom units at the moderate resorts in both clubs:

Fairfield: $3000-4000 depending on the resort. MF: $600-750. (note: some resorts are more expensive and they tend to be the ones that are newer with lower maintenance fees)

Bluegreen: $3500-4500. MF: $485-525. The difference in the maintenance fees get much more pronounced when as you achieve higher levels of ownership. Large owners are heavily rewarded in Bluegreen.

It is much easier to figure out the better deals in Bluegreen than in Fairfield because there are so many fewer options. In Fairfield, the fees vary by resort and whether it's a fixed week or UDI points. And, some resorts separate out taxes, others don't and the Fairshare Plus fee changes based on the size of ownership. You need to be much more careful when buying a Fairfield property vs. a Bluegreen property although there are gotchas there as well.

I believe that Bluegreen is a much better trading vehicle because the maintenance fees are lower, so your cost to transact is lower. And, many Bluegreen resorts have affiliation agreements with II. So, you can trade in both RCI and II where only a limited number of resorts in FF can trade in II. And, it's usually one or the other, but not both. In addition, Bluegreen has very cheap points alternatives that can be used for trading in DAE and SFX. If you want a point system for trading, its' this one or WorldMark.

One of the best benefits of ownership of Bluegreen is what they call bonus time. Bonus time is the space that is bookable les than 45-days from check in. You can get any available studio unit for $39, 1 bedroom for $49, 2 bedroom for $59 plus applicable state occupancy taxes. My family and I use this all the time since there are so many resorts in Florida.

VIP and Preferred owner benefits. Bluegreen and Fairfield both have VIP programs. In the Fairfield program, my favorites are no housekeeping fees, the reservation fees, picking the specific unit, and 25%-50% discounts and complimentary room upgrades for reservations made less than 60-days from checkin and ARP for advance reservation privilege. In Bluegreen, many of the benefits that come in the Fairfield program are part of the standard program. They include no reservation fees, no housekeeping, bonus time instead of discounted points usage and picking specific units. Preferred owners can pay their maintenance fees with points at a very good rate and can get on the waitlist to booking the super prime weeks before standard owners.

From an online website point of view. I'd say that Fairfield has the current edge since you can book reservations online and check availaiblity. You can't do that yet in Bluegreen although Bluegreen just introduced online availability and booking for bonus time. So, online reservations will soon follow.

As far as the specific resort comparisons, I have only been to the resorts in the Southeast. You should post questions to compare the resorts in the Northeast and midwest. You will get better insights from those experts.

The last thing I want to mention is that the Fairshare Plus system is very complicated. It is the single most complicated points system in all of timesharing. Some argue that they did it for a reason. I claim it is way too complicated and they should scrap it and start over. I won't go into detail, but if I listed all of the potential fees, it would blow your mind. It is true that you won't have to deal with most of those fees. But, I can say this, the first time I reviewed the program, I cried uncle and asked for help. And, I'm the guy who went to Walmart, bought a pedometer, calibrated it and measured the distance from the entrance of Splash Lagoon to River Island at Orange Lake Country Club based on a brainstorm that JLB had who is the guy who has done daily searches on RCI for years. So, when I say it's complicated. It is complicated. The good news is that once you get it down, like anything else, it isn't that bad.

[Pit Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pit]

Please feel free to post as many questions as you have here. We have lots of experts available who can help you out.

I know I've come to the right place.

Boca, thanks for your detailed replies. Let me chew on that for awhile, and I'm sure I'll have more questions.

[EAM Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EAM]

Another FSP vs. Bluegreen question

When exchanging UDI FSP points via RCI, one has the following options:

1. Depositing a generic set of points (offline, invisible points deposit) that cannot be used for online searching in RCI
2. Depositing a specific week of Fairfield's choice to be used for online searching (online, visible, points deposit)
3. "Search first" in which you, an RCI guide, and a FSP guide have a 3-way conversation to see how many points are needed to get the resort(s) you want.

Fairfield used to allow owners of UDI FSP points to reserve a specific week at their home resort and deposit it in RCI but that is no longer permitted.

What similar options are there for owners of BVC points?

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

Way more straightforward for the Bluegreenian: book a week and deposit, use it to search online or to begin an ongoing search.

I can book at most any resort in the Bluegreen network for deposit. There is a restriction, tho, as the resort must be owned by Bluegreen as opposed to the "Associate Resorts." That has not been a problem for me since there are plenty of desirable resorts I can deposit.

I can book a really cheap week with points (2000-5000 points) if I know I'm not shooting for prime time/prime location. This allows me to get a lot more weeks out of a minor points stake. It is always up to me as to how many points I want to spend on a deposit. If I need higher trading power, I book a better week for more points.

I think also that BG has a 'same network' priority so you could book a cheap week for deposit at Resort X and exchange into a bigger or better week at that same resort. I have not done this, but plenty of others have. Again, a way to stretch your points but still go where you want.

[EAM Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EAM]

Thanks for your reply. IMHO, this would make Bluegreen more attractive than Fairfield. However, Bluegreen seems to be following Fairfield's lead in denying special benefits to owners of large amounts of points if those points were purchased resale. For the most part, I would hope that Bluegreen does not mimic FF in regards to methods of RCI exchanges as well, although I do like FF's "search first."

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

No, they are just being practical about withholding a preferential status to those who didn't do business with them directly. There are still a great many Preferred Owners who are not having bennies ripped from them.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

And, the big difference between FF and Bluegreen is that Bluegreen allows you to get developer benefits if you buy from an authorized reseller. FF doesn't allow any resale purchases to count. Well, at least resale purchases that approximate the resale market.

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

The only thing that resale Fairfield doesn't count toward is VIP benefits. Otherwise, a resale Fairfield is full fledged and has no differentiation between it and retail Fairfield.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

The only thing that resale Fairfield doesn't count toward is VIP benefits. Otherwise, a resale Fairfield is full fledged and has no differentiation between it and retail Fairfield.

VIP benefits are what we are talking about. My favorite VIP Gold benefit in FF is booking a specific unit. Then, you can get specific views.

With Bluegreen, everyone gets that right.

[EAM Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EAM]

Fairfield used to make VIP benefits available to those who purchased from a subsidiary of Fairfield. I seem to recall hearing that there used to be a few Fairfield/Century 21 offices that offered FSP points at resale prices. Anyone know if this was true and if so, if those offices are still around?