Change in - Automatic Saved Points Policy - Going Away?

[BrendaM Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BrendaM]

I called Bluegreen customer service yesterday because I had a question about my account. The CSR told me that sometime later this year they are going back to manually saving points (by phone or a new feature that will be added on line). They will not be automatically saved. She did not have a specific date but thought it would be sometime in June. She said letters would be sent to owners to communicate the announcement.

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Change in Saving Points Policy

There has been a lot of discussion in the BG Yahoo Group on the upcoming change in the policy on saving points. This group should have a heads up on it too. Here is the original post:

"On Feb 23, 2011, at 4:31 PM, ... wrote:

Did anyone see this in the latest Colorful Places?

Effective June 2011, there will be a change to BG's saved points policy. There are two key changes:

Saving points will no longer be automatic. You must request to save points by the points' expiration date.

There will be a fee to save ($35 online, $50 by phone)."

Name withheld since it was from a different discussion group and I don't have permission to use the name in this group.

The next 20 messages will probably say it's about just making money but it doesn't make any sense to be simply about money. More on that later.

Charles

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

It's not about money

There will be a fee to save ($35 online, $50 by phone).... it doesn't make any sense to be simply about money.

Much of this comes from the insight of Jim and others.

If BG simply wanted money, they could easily raise the Vacation Club dues on all of us by some $20-35 and be guaranteed to get it. I don't know how many are saving points so I don't know how much the new fee will generate but not as much as increasing the dues (even after you factor in those who are in default on their dues).

This is going to create a call center nightmare. People will be angrily calling to find out why their "saved" points disappeared. It will be a PR problem, etc., etc.

There could be be another reason. That saving and borrowing are out of equilibrium. More on that later.

Charles

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Saving and borrowing are out of equilibrium?

There could be be another reason. That saving and borrowing are out of equilibrium.

The initial discussion on Yahoo focused mainly on money and on "How could BG do this? I never agreed to this!!" and other such comments. Here is my lengthy response:

"Don't forget, you agreed to this policy when you purchased your points.

We should ask ourselves, is there another conceivable reason for the new fee other than simply making money? I think there is. Of course, I do not know if it is since I am not privy to all of the data that BG has. So, let me offer a second reason.

Let us consider an extreme case in that every person saved their points this year without knowing that everyone else did. All of the BGVC units would sit empty. The following year we all decided to use our saved points and our annual points in that year. Result: Half of us would get reservations and half would get nothing. Before everyone says that is impossible, don't say it. Improbable Yes, impossible No. The other extreme case is if every member borrows next year's points with the intention of using them this year along with their annual points. Result: Half of us would get reservations and half would get nothing. Reality obviously is somewhere in between the two extremes. And ideally the borrowing and saving would be exactly the same amount and everything would be just fine. But what if they do get out of whack. Where saving is much larger (or smaller) than borrowing. The result is unhappy owners. Bluegreen has an obligation to somehow keep borrowing and saving balanced.

How to you keep them balanced? You look at what is causing them to be out of balance and try to correct that. Perhaps owners with 9,000 annual points in red time were saving their points so they could go to a newer resort that took 18,000 points in high red time. The person who bought 18,000 points so they could go to the high red unit, now can't because someone else has it. A possible result could be a policy change in which saved points can't be used for high red time. What if such a policy change works for awhile but then doesn't work adequately anymore. BG has an obligation to change the policy to bring borrowing and saving back into balance. Perhaps this is the reason for the new change.

I started this small essay saying that you agreed to this policy already. Now to back up that statement with fact. Turn to your Multi-Site Public Offering Statement and go to Exhibit 0: Page 32: Paragraphs III.5.A.(1) and I quote from the November, 2009 Statement (it reads the same as the 2002 statement:

"Owner Beneficiaries are allowed to save and borrow Vacation Points from past years and future years in accordance with Club rules as such may exist from time to time, including on the following basis:

(a) Owner Beneficiaries will be authorized to save and borrow, but the saving and borrowing will be limited, on an annual basis, to a percentage determined, from time to time, by the Vacation Club Managing Entity. The Club rules governing saving and borrowing will be based upon anticipated relative use demand of each Component Site and will be exercised by the Vacation Club Managing Entity in good faith and based upon all reasonably available evidence under the circumstances with the objective to further the best interests of the Purchasers as a whole with respect to their opportunity to use and enjoy Accommodations and Facilities of the Vacation Plan. The rules may provide that saving and borrowing may be subject to a charge ..."

When you signed on the dotted line, you agreed to these conditions.

Another hypothesis. With MF going up and the economy having gone down, perhaps fewer people are borrowing points and more are saving points and the system got out of whack.

Another hypothesis: When BG was building new units and buying new units, the unsold units provided a mechanism to handle saving and borrowing getting a bit out of whack. But with fewer unsold new and purchased units and BG heading towards a 50% goal of Fee for Service, perhaps there isn't enough slack to handle a system out of whack.

As I said before, I do not have the raw data upon which to do an analysis (and even if I had the raw data, I probably couldn't do a proper analysis anyway), so I can't say I KNOW why BG is putting the policy into effect but I suspect that others do not KNOW that it was done to simple make money."

Charles

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Sorry

I called Bluegreen customer service yesterday because I had a question about my account. The CSR told me that sometime later this year they are going back to manually saving points (by phone or a new feature that will be added on line). They will not be automatically saved. She did not have a specific date but thought it would be sometime in June. She said letters would be sent to owners to communicate the announcement.

Sorry Brenda. I did not see your post and started a new thread. If a moderator wants to (or can) combine the threads, that's fine with me.

Charles

edit - threads merged at Charles request...

[VA_Traveller Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close VA_Traveller]

Your speculation is probably closer to the truth then just a money grab. While using extremes for examples is troublesome, there probably is a bulk of saved points (we can't afford to go anywhere, lets save them), and that needs to be accounted for.
This is an easy way to put the onus back on the owners to save, and the fee is a small barrier to eliminate some points (would you now save 500 points if its going to cost you $35...1000?) at what point is it not cost effective to save.

We usually borrow ahead, so not really an issue.

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

While using extremes for examples is troublesome

I did not use the extremes as examples, they are just brackets designed to make us realize that if saving and borrowing aren't equal, or if the inequality is not constant year to year, then there will be problems for some owners not being able to obtain reservations.

Charles

[VA_Traveller Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close VA_Traveller]

I did not use the extremes as examples, they are just brackets designed to make us realize that if saving and borrowing aren't equal, or if the inequality is not constant year to year, then there will be problems for some owners not being able to obtain reservations.

Charles

hahah..well, in your own words

Let us consider an extreme case

[Tom in GA Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom in GA]

Biannual Points

Question....what about biannual point owners. Will they also be charged for any points saved from the first year? I would assume so from the discussion.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

Now I know why I have 9 daily digests today alone from Yahoo Group.

Are they planning on charging ALL owners?
Will this effect borrowing points or only the act of saving?

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Saving only it appears

Are they planning on charging ALL owners? Will this effect borrowing points or only the act of saving?

The "heads up" is in the latest edition of "Colorful Places" which has not reached us up here in the frozen tundra. So I can't quote from the notice. However, all of the discussion seems focused on "saving" so I am guessing that saving is causing inventory problems so BG is only tackling saving. As pointed out before, if they were simply only after money, it would be much easier to simply raise club dues. There will be lots of angry owners who will throw away their notice unread when it arrives and be quite upset when they lose their unused points.

Charles

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

The "heads up" is in the latest edition of "Colorful Places" which has not reached us up here in the frozen tundra. So I can't quote from the notice. However, all of the discussion seems focused on "saving" so I am guessing that saving is causing inventory problems so BG is only tackling saving. As pointed out before, if they were simply only after money, it would be much easier to simply raise club dues. There will be lots of angry owners who will throw away their notice unread when it arrives and be quite upset when they lose their unused points.
Charles

I am traveling so have not seen it as of yet...and yes, lots of people will be upset.

[Lindetech Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lindetech]

Charge for Saving Points

I wonder if BG has considered charging a percentage of the points you are trying to save. I think that would make more sense than charging the same fee for someone saving 1000 pts vs 10000pts. It would certainly give you an incentive to make good use of your points.