Resales and Day Use

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

It appears that Bluegreen is reducing the perks on resales (down to even Day Use) to really differentiate between buying from Bluegreen vs. resale. The following appeared in the Street Talk Blog:

» 2007 » April

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"FLORIDA: April 20
Filed under: -EASTERN USA — street @ 12:08 am
BOCA RATON: Bluegreen Resorts has decided to get firm in its attempts to control resales. It is doing so by enforcing restrictions on resale inventory that is not sold by an authorized reseller. Essentially, if you are in the Preferred program, VIP program, Enhanced/Traveler Plus membership or basic membership with perks such as Bonus time and day use at Club Component Sites, you will not be able to transfer these programs to a buyer on the resale market.

You can still exchange with RCI or into other Bluegreen properties, but the only way to use those other programs is via developer sales or the aforementioned authorized resellers.

Other resorts operate similar restrictions, including Marriott, with what seems to be limited success. Anyone have hard data on how successful such programs are? Anyone with an opinion about it?"

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No author is given for the statement so take it for what it is worth. It is being discussed on TUG:

Bluegreen Resorts attempts to control resales. - TUG Bulletin Board

Charles

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

If the day use is part of the original disclosure (and most likely it is) then they could be facing some lawsuits if they try to enforce that change. If it isn't then the buyer has no right to it anyway. Any additional costs it may represent had better not be coming out of the base budget paid for by those owners however. Anyone checking on these guys or is it another Good Ole Boy's operation with corporate flunkies running the resorts? Based on this type of disrespect for the owners I would tend toward buying elsewhere. Not that it matters to them.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

There is nothing new in this memo on StreetTalk. Everything described was already included as part of the Feb 21 announcement that Bluegreen was enforcing its current policies regarding transfer of VIP bonus time, day use at resorts, and preferred owner benefits. Traveler Plus already wasn't transferring prior to the Feb 21 announcement.

To address John's question, the multi-site public offering statement and bylaws which govern the Bluegreen Vacation Club has had this exact language in it since at least 2002. Bluegreen has had rules in place that prevented the transfer of these benefits for at least 5 years. They just decided this year that it was time to enforce those rules. Bluegreen grandfathered everyone into with those benefits who purchased prior to Feb 21.

This is poor reporting. This was introduced 2 months ago.

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

There is nothing new in this memo on StreetTalk. Everything described was already included as part of the Feb 21 announcement .... This is poor reporting. This was introduced 2 months ago.

Jim,

However, everything I saw did NOT refer to Day Use. It may have been in the February 21 document but I don't think I ever saw the original document.

Charles

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Jim,

However, everything I saw did NOT refer to Day Use. It may have been in the February 21 document but I don't think I ever saw the original document.

Charles

I see. I have the original memo sent out on Feb 16. It clearly states that Day Use does not transfer. And, the language is exactly as stated in the Multi-site public offering statement. I believe they did that for legal reasons. They can legitimately enforce rules that are already documented, disclosed and approved within the Bylaws of the Club.

And, as you know, Bluegreen has been aggressively communicating their intentions to enforce these rules for over 2-3 years. They even have an annual owner confirmation interview that owners sign to acknowledge that these policies are in place.

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Thanks

Jim,

Thank you. I did not see the February 16 document in its entirety (only snippets) and I have to admit I have not finished reading the by-laws. My fault on that.

Charles

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

If the day use is part of the original disclosure (and most likely it is) then they could be facing some lawsuits if they try to enforce that change. If it isn't then the buyer has no right to it anyway. Any additional costs it may represent had better not be coming out of the base budget paid for by those owners however. Anyone checking on these guys or is it another Good Ole Boy's operation with corporate flunkies running the resorts? Based on this type of disrespect for the owners I would tend toward buying elsewhere. Not that it matters to them.

Sorry, not on board with you.

My experience with Bluegreen has been very respectful towards the owners. They want us happy. They have good management. Their changes are generally in support of their owners. That is definitely what I found out at last year's board meeting.

Enforcing this rule just makes it easier for those of us already in the system to use the benefits coming to us. If all the ebay cheapo sales got Bonus Time, it could get very difficult for the rest of us to use it.

I find this to be completely respectful to the owners that have paid Bluegreen directly.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

BOCA RATON: Bluegreen Resorts has decided to get firm in its attempts to control resales. It is doing so by enforcing restrictions on resale inventory that is not sold by an authorized reseller.

And, as you know, Bluegreen has been aggressively communicating their intentions to enforce these rules for over 2-3 years. They even have an annual owner confirmation interview that owners sign to acknowledge that these policies are in place.

Anyone checking on these guys or is it another Good Ole Boy's operation with corporate flunkies running the resorts? Based on this type of disrespect for the owners I would tend toward buying elsewhere. Not that it matters to them.

Don't know, but it seems more like to control the quality of resell agents and based on Boca and his other thread (http://www.timeshareforums.com/forum...re-owners.html) about BG sent to owner tell them one of the resell agent is not welcome one, I actually believe BG really cares about their product and owner and want to create a resell market that favor to owner without going through ROFR. And if that is what they intend, it actually is much better process and effort than any of the so called top level hotel chain ever try to do. John, if you can use them, maybe you should start watch them. I certainly hope their work get paid if that is what their intention is.

Jya-Ning

[RedMan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RedMan]

Sorry, not on board with you.

Sorry, not on board with you.

My experience with Bluegreen has been very respectful towards the owners. They want us happy. They have good management. Their changes are generally in support of their owners. That is definitely what I found out at last year's board meeting.

Bluegreen has every right to enforce this existing rule. I cannot say anything about that.

I do believe though, that this move was more in the interest of the high commission sales people than it was for anything else. I have talked on the phone with owner services with no negative effect, even though they know I purchased resale. I have also been treated just fine at reservation check-ins. On the other hand, if you want to see someone's facial expression instantly change, just mention the word "resale" to a closer at a sales presentation (aka: Owner Update).

Enforcing this rule just makes it easier for those of us already in the system to use the benefits coming to us. If all the ebay cheapo sales got Bonus Time, it could get very difficult for the rest of us to use it.

This is a "cheapo" shot.

I did purchase from an ebay "cheapo" seller after cancelling a developer purchase. No regrets. I did get in before the cutoff date and I would never despise anyone who gained VIP benefits through a resale purchase whether it made it "easier" for me to use the benefits coming to me or not. BTW I will try not to intrude too much on your Bonus Time (Sorry, I just had to through in my own "cheapo" shot).

I find this to be completely respectful to the owners that have paid Bluegreen directly.

I guess this would be true if you purchased all of your points through Bluegreen directly. If you didn't then those high commission sales people would like to strip benefits from you as well. It would give them more leverage at your next update.

None of this should really make any difference though because Bluegreen got their money on the original purchase.

There you have my two cents.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Stay away from that buffet it's for retail owners only

Enforcing this rule just makes it easier for those of us already in the system to use the benefits coming to us. If all the ebay cheapo sales got Bonus Time, it could get very difficult for the rest of us to use it.

I find this to be completely respectful to the owners that have paid Bluegreen directly.

EVERY owner paid Bluegreen at some point. There is no resale until someone buys retail. So when your turn comes to sell for whatever reason I hope you feel good taking far less than you should get because Bluegreen wants to "protect" the "good" owners who pay too much or use preferred resellers. Thats a Westgrate type move for sure.

Anyway you look at it it's a ripoff and in no way owner friendly. Anyone who owns has the same benefits coming to them resale or not. You all pay the same annual fees and none of the money that is paid into retail sales goes to the owners or the Associations. It lines the weasels pockets. For that you want to help them punish those who learn there is a better way to buy?

I prefer resorts/systems that play fair with all owners rather than trying to create artificial tiers to justify higher sale prices. If I deal with a group that does play that game (for example Wyndham) I avoid it by refusing to buy retail and ignoring the meaningless "benefits" of VIP that would cost literally 10's of thousands of dollars more than we paid to buy our points. I can print my own VIP card for a dollar or two that gets me just about the same advantages.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I prefer resorts/systems that play fair with all owners rather than trying to create artificial tiers to justify higher sale prices. If I deal with a group that does play that game (for example Wyndham) I avoid it by refusing to buy retail and ignoring the meaningless "benefits" of VIP that would cost literally 10's of thousands of dollars more than we paid to buy our points. I can print my own VIP card for a dollar or two that gets me just about the same advantages.

John,

Bluegreen is not Fairfield/Wyndham. The price difference between getting the benefits vs. not is between $1500-2500. And, you can choose to have them or not.

This is NOT like Fairfield where you buy at $.12/point and then it drops to $.02/point overnight. If you own 203,000 points, you lose $20,000. That is massive destruction of owner equity.

I think your view on this subject is heavily biased by the main companies you deal with.

You don't know much about Bluegreen at all. Bluegreen is 100 times more owner friendly than Fairfield / Wyndham. I know that as a big owner of Bluegreen, WorldMark and Fairfield.

The Bluegreen benefits are worth the price differential. Yes, there is differential services. That's the way I like it. I don't like socialism in our economy and I certainly don't like it with my timeshares.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

I do believe though, that this move was more in the interest of the high commission sales people than it was for anything else.

I don't think so, but, let's agree that we can't answer that ourselves.

On the other hand, if you want to see someone's facial expression instantly change, just mention the word "resale" to a closer at a sales presentation (aka: Owner Update).

Of course! True at any resort or new car lot where you prefer 'pre-owned.'

This is a "cheapo" shot.

Didn't mean it as a cheap shot, perhaps I should have added a smiley.

I did purchase from an ebay "cheapo" seller after cancelling a developer purchase. No regrets. I did get in before the cutoff date and I would never despise anyone who gained VIP benefits through a resale purchase whether it made it "easier" for me to use the benefits coming to me or not. BTW I will try not to intrude too much on your Bonus Time (Sorry, I just had to through in my own "cheapo" shot).

Wow, you think I hate you??

I guess this would be true if you purchased all of your points through Bluegreen directly.

Wrong. Wouldn't matter, once you're in the Bluegreen system. My first purchase was thru Bluegreen, but not the ones after that. BG won't be trying to strip me of any rights I already have, and I'm not upset that I won't get Preferred Bennies if I don't buy all the points thru them. It's their game, so their rules, and I respect that and will play by their rules. Either the bennies mean enuf to me to pay more, or they don't. This gives me A CHOICE!

If you haven't looked into Bluegreen management and what policies they have in force, you don't know them at all.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

EVERY owner paid Bluegreen at some point.

you must mean maint fees and club dues?

So when your turn comes to sell for whatever reason I hope you feel good taking far less than you should get because Bluegreen wants to "protect" the "good" owners who pay too much or use preferred resellers.

why would I sell?? I love Bluegreen and will pass it down to my stepdaughter when my life ends.

You're putting words in my mouth with your quotation marks, so I won't bother responding to those comments.

Anyway you look at it it's a ripoff and in no way owner friendly. Anyone who owns has the same benefits coming to them resale or not. You all pay the same annual fees and none of the money that is paid into retail sales goes to the owners or the Associations. It lines the weasels pockets. For that you want to help them punish those who learn there is a better way to buy?

again, you are misinterpreting what I said, and you are not understanding Bluegreen's policy. All owners own their unit week and the points and can use those in the same way. It's the extra bennies that vary by your ownership.

"Punish" is a word YOU came up with. I merely point out that there is a choice to get more bennies by buying the way BG suggests, or do without the extras and buy cheaper. "Better" is best left to the prospective owner to determine.

I prefer resorts/systems that play fair with all owners rather than trying to create artificial tiers to justify higher sale prices. If I deal with a group that does play that game (for example Wyndham) I avoid it by refusing to buy retail and ignoring the meaningless "benefits" of VIP that would cost literally 10's of thousands of dollars more than we paid to buy our points. I can print my own VIP card for a dollar or two that gets me just about the same advantages.

Fine, that's your right. Then don't whine when you don't get bonus time or day use.

[RedMan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RedMan]

Wow, you think I hate you??

Absolutely not. It's just that you seem to be an advocate of the rule enforcement while I am definitely not. Even so, they still have every right to enforce. I just think it's not about looking out for the better interest of the owners.

Wrong. Wouldn't matter, once you're in the Bluegreen system. My first purchase was thru Bluegreen, but not the ones after that.

I guess I don't understand why you would comment about someone making a resale purchase from ebay while you have also purchased resale. What's the difference?

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

I don't really care, I just understand that they want to preserve bennies for the people that paid 'full frieght' to them. I did the first time. I'm a card-carrying Charter Owner. Sure, I paid more than I had to, but, didn't know better at the time, and have not regretted my purchase. It's a good system, I'm glad I bought.

BG does things for the larger good of their owners. Clearly word is out on resale. So maybe you could buy a teeeeensy resale package but make extensive use of Bonus Time. Absolutely within the rules at the time, but now, they want you to pay for the privilege, as is their right, just as it's your right or my right or person x to buy resale or from 'an authorized reseller' to get Bonus Time, etc., or buy cheap and pass up the perk.

BG is protecting current owners (including all the resale owners prior to enforcing the rule). I just don't have a problem with that since I'm an owner. People that don't own yet may not like it, and I understand that, too, but they can make the choice to get Bonus time, etc., Or Not.