Some general questions

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

You can not consider just the going in cost. You have all the forever fees as long as you own it. Then, when it comes time to get rid of it, good luck. Expect less than half of your going in costs.
I think 2,000 for a vacation is a bit high.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

Well, Bing- you are partially right, but if you buy a good timeshare- odds are that you can sell it for what you paid (resale of course). Once the postcard companies get through giving the second fleecing to unknowledgeable timeshare owners and the increase in resales subsides, timeshare prices may even rise. I have made money on most of the timeshares that I bought resale and subsequently sold. Rentals also help with paying the annual fee and taking something off your original expenditure. Timesharing works if you know what you are doing before you jump in and those that buy something that they have no idea of it's value or how to use it will pay a high price- and sometimes get taken advantage of a second time when they want out.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

You can not consider just the going in cost. You have all the forever fees as long as you own it. Then, when it comes time to get rid of it, good luck. Expect less than half of your going in costs.
I think 2,000 for a vacation is a bit high.

My average cost for a week in a 2 bedroom, 2 bath unit including an 8% cost of invested capital on my upfront fee and all exchange fees, maintenance fees, special assessments, etc is around $350. That right. $50/night including tax. In a 2 bedroom unit.

My average is starting to go up to around $400 since I am staying in nicer places such as this one:

View from my unit at Marriott Maui Ocean Club in Maui


or this one:

View from my unit at Marriott Waiohai in Kauai


In this case, the timeshare I used to get these two weeks cost me $1500 including the closing costs. It is a 2 bedroom lockoff unit.

The Maintenance fee was $835. The lock off fee was $75. The exchange fees were $89 each.

So, for a total capital cost of $1500 plus other fees of $1088, I was able to get both of these units. That is a cost of $544 per week of use.

Marriott charges around $400/night or around $3000 per week to rent these villas.

I could probably sell this timeshare for at least $3000 now. If I did that, I would have received BOTH of these vacations for FREE. But, I am going to keep it for a while since I love staying in these resorts for around $600 per week when everyone else who is renting B&Bs are paying $3000.

Even if I simply donate this unit back to someone on this board, my total cost for those 2 weeks would have been $1294 per week which is $1706 less than renters at these resorts.

So, the problem is NOT with timeshares. The problem is with your economic model for evaluating timeshares. You are using the same model you would for purchasing a house. And, you are assuming that buying directly from the developer is the only way that people purchase timeshares. Both of these assumptions are the wrong ones to use. If you just open your mind up, you 'll see that timesharing is by far and away the single best value for family travel EVER CREATED.

It's better than sliced bread. If I had to had to make a choice between sliced bread or timesharing, sliced bread is history. Timesharing is really that good.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

Bing,

I invite you to start a new thread to air your grievances about timeshares. It sounds like your objections are relatively general, so belong in one of the general forums.

I think a discussion using real facts and figures could be very interesting so please do share your vacation travel experiences and expenses with the group.

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

timeshares are timeshares

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Thank You

timeshares are timeshares

Bing,
Yes they are. Thanks for your comments. The responses to your points makes me even more confident that timeshares are for me. By the way, if my points run out, do you know of any non-smoking, three bedroom B & B's that I can get with full kitchen, large living and dining rooms, 3 and 1/2 bathrooms, and 10 guests for $750 per week during prime summer time? Also must have an indoor and an outdoor pool, tennis courts, mini golf, and scheduled activities for the kids.

Charles

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

Everything you mention except the non smoking is what I don't want or need.
I like it small,no sticky kids, maybe 3-5 couples in a non tourist area. Nice,small well prepared breakfast and time to relax on the porch.

When I check out I get a receipt. Don't have to pay a fee for the roof or pool or sidewalks. I don't have to worry about always increasing MF's, SA's Club dues, Club trans.fees' lockout fees, and parking fees.

TS are not for everyone in contrast to what most salesmen might think.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

That's great, Bing - you have found what you like.

I, personally, much prefer the privacy of my own condo unit vs sharing a house (and possibly Bathroom!!) with a bunch of people I have no desire to interact with, let alone share meals with or be pressured into 'nature walks', etc.

We all have own preferences.

I wonder, tho, why you are frequenting a timeshare board if your preference is B&B?

[RedMan Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close RedMan]

Everything you mention except the non smoking is what I don't want or need.
I like it small,no sticky kids, maybe 3-5 couples in a non tourist area. Nice,small well prepared breakfast and time to relax on the porch.

When I check out I get a receipt. Don't have to pay a fee for the roof or pool or sidewalks. I don't have to worry about always increasing MF's, SA's Club dues, Club trans.fees' lockout fees, and parking fees.

TS are not for everyone in contrast to what most salesmen might think.

I love my sticky kids. I cherish my time with them.

I really don't see any need for us to have to defend our preferences. You like what you like and we like what we like.

Bless you on your B&B endeavors. Maybe you can find a B&B forum to vent your timeshare frustrations on.

Any sales person will try to convince anyone that their product or service or whatever is something you can't live without. That's their job and some are very good at it. I myself have fallen for sales pitches a time or two and have learned much from those bad choices. I choose not to dwell on bad choices I may have made but rather to move on with life.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Bing,

I love B&B's, too. Before I had kids, my wife and I used to travel up to New England every Memorial Day weekend to stay in a B&B. That all stopped after we had our first child since B&Bs are not kid friendly.

Also, let me provide you with some real information on how knowledgeable timesharers use their ownerships.

Earlier in the year, Angela contacted me about a sighting she made for a very rare beast in the timesharing world.... A 3br Grande Villa Unit at Disney Old Key West. This is a fantastic 2 story unit done in Disney style. Seeing one of these come up for exchange is like hitting the Powerball lottery. As soon as I saw it, I had to grab it and figure out how I was going to get back to Florida. So, I booked it using 12000 WorldMark credits. That exchange cost me $480 for the credits, $135 for the exchange fee and $95 for the Disney fee. Total cost: $710 for the week. Disney rents these units for around $700 per night.

Then, my wife booked airline tickets using FF miles for the family. 4 of us since my oldest couldn't get out of school. We decided we wanted to see friends, so we added on an exchange to a 2br unit at Sheraton Vistana Villages right after the week at OKW. I used an accommodation certificate from a Bluegreen deposit I made into II. It cost me $330 for that week.

About 2 weeks ago, my wife asked me if I got the extra nights we needed as our airline tickets were for 2 days before our stay at OKW. I completely forgot to do anything. So, just last week, I logged onto the Bluegreen website, checked for bonus time and found that there was a 2br oceanfront unit at Dayona Seabreeze. Mind you, this is Labor day weekend and only 3 weeks from checkin. Cost: $155 for 2 nights.

Then, I just got the notification of the Bluegreen Annual meeting for Sept 25. I decided to stay in Florida for it. I used 3 more accommodations certificates from Bluegreen deposits. ACs are basically bonus weeks that you pay a cheap rental rate for receiving.

I got a 1 bedroom unit at Disney Vero Beach is a Studio unit just for me. That unit cost me $220 for the week.

I got a 1br unit at Marriott Beachplace Tower in Fort Lauderdale for $276 for the week.

I also got a 2br unit at Marriott Ocean Pointe resort on Singer Island in Palm Beach County for $330.

So, that's 37 nights of accommodations. Total cost: $2021 = $54.62 INCLUDING TAX.

Not bad for 2 Disneys, 2 Marriott's a Starwood and a Bluegreen Resort. 4 of the 6 resorts are right on the Ocean.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I remember one year when the fees went down on one timeshare group I owned. It seems they felt they had excess reserves and after doing the budget and raising the fee a few bucks in accordance with the new budget, they applied a credit from the reserves- resulting in a lower fee than the year before.
At another resort fees and taxes were climbing too fast, so I talked to management about getting the taxes reduced by showing the city the resale prices and values for their timeshares. The next year, the taxes dropped considerably. These are just two counter examples- one with good management and one where an owner gets involved to save money on taxes. Due diligence is a must before buying if you are not concerned about losing what you spend. When I didn't do any due diligence I got my only resort that came up with a special assessment- so there goes my $ 500 investment a few years ago.

[1950bing Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 1950bing]

My purpose here is to inform.
Some people who are considering a timeshare purchase look here and other similar sites for information. I want them to get all the facts. I speak from real life experience as a former t/s owner that was taken in by lies and false promises.
Most people here boast about their low costs of vacations. HOWEVER, they seem to forget what has been paid to get into timeshares (inital going in costs which amount into thousands of $) and the years and years of ever increasing fees,fees,fees! MF,SA,exchange fees,even fees to exchange and now parking fees. Some places even charge a cleaning fee ! So, when you say , " I spent this for my vacation " you would have to include all real costs, not just exchange costs. No one just gave you the place for free to start with.
When you don't want the place anymore get ready for a huge loss! Why are they for sale on ebay for a dollar? Why are there are scam companys offering to take your place off your hands for a for a cost to you?
Getting out often costs you what you put out to start with and maybe more if you pay someplace to sell it for you.
I am not here to talk anyone out of buying a t/s. What people do with their money is their business. I hate to see people go into something without ALL the correct information. A lot of rich people love t/s and I say good for them. But, it is not for everyone ! Every timeshare sales person I have ever talked to think that everyone NEEDS a t/s and they have a product to meet every need. When " no thank you " is uttered they get mad and bring in the heavy to pound on you a little more, " give in. "
What other business other than Amway uses hooks to get you to listen? The 90 min.talk is really three hours ! The hot boiler room pressure to get you to buy is cruel. In one case,the police was called in.
They are not all like this but it does happen and that is why I post here.
In my experience with B & B I have never been pressured into anything. If I don't want what they offer I don't go ! Unlike t/s where they load up my phone mailbox with all the tours that I have no interest in at all. Just step outside and the sales people are linned up to try to take up my time and money. This is my vacation, leave me alone. If I want what your are selling I'll ask,period!The people I meet at B & B sometime turns into a lifetime friendship! If you don't like B & B then please don't go on a cruise. I love to cruise too.
To sum up, I'm informing, not venting.
Have a great vacation, just know what you are getting into !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could be involved for the rest of your life.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

B&B is NOT the same as a cruise.

I've cruised several times before and haven't had to share a bathroom with other guests or pressured to attend group activities with them.

I am sooo confused as to your comparison of BB and a cruise?!?!

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Thanks Bing. I respect your opinion and do appreciate that you are providing information about the other side of the coin.

Keep posting. It adds to the conversation. I am extremely confident that timesharing done right is economically superior to most alternatives as long as you put in the effort to understand what you are getting into and managing your assets appropriately. I am not afraid of the facts coming out. The more light that is shined on this topic, the more it will prove my point that timesharing, when done right, is the single best value of vacation travel for families of all sizes.

By the way, I didn't forget the costs you mentioned. It is not just exchange fees. It is ALL of the associated costs including booking, maintenance, taxes, housekeeping, exchanges fees, etc. The only thing I didn't include was the capital cost of the timeshares. That was about $10,000 for the capital required to make the exchages I did. For the most part, I used bonus weeks to get them, so no additional capital was required since all of my original weeks are still intact with the exception of the WorldMark credits used for the Old Key West accommodations. So, to make it 100% costs, I would need to add the cost of capital for the 12000 credits. Or, rent them to replace what I used for $.06/credit. That would add $240 to the overall costs. When adding the $240, that would be the apples to apples comparison of renting those accommodations directly from the developer from a cost point of view.

What's better is that since I used all bonus weeks, I could rent all of my original weeks to cover ALL of my maintenance fees AND cover the costs of the whole trip. Now, that is certainly something that a renter cannot do.

[dukebigtom Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dukebigtom]

I think Boca is right on about this subject.

They may not have ever asked you for extra money to fix the roof. That's because you are not an owner in the B&B, but you can bet when they fixed the roof, the cost was figured into all future rents.

If you want a say in what's going on in TS did you ever go to a board meeting or contact a board member and share your thoughts?

Bottom line, if you don't like TS, that's cool and certainly your right, but why are you on this board dissing them?