Advice please - Shenendoah Crossing UDI

[4ms Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 4ms]

Hello,

I found this forum today and have been trying to absorb the wisdom.

We bought the UDI in Shenandoah Crossing years ago (3 weeks / year). I recall a high pressure event later where they wanted us to convert to points and we declined. And it was entirely forgotten for years as we moved many times.

Now retiring from our Army after 3 years in Iraq, I found the BG info and called and they wanted many thousands of dollars in back maint fees.

The search that led me to this friendly forum also indicates that our propoerty's value may be less than the back BG maint & rec fees.

We're also trying to figure out exactly what we have with the UDI since most of the discussion concerns points.

Obvlously we haven't made good use of the property but we may have better opportunities now. So we may want to reactivate with BG or unload the property or pursue other options.

Suggestions welcome on how best to proceed.

much thank,
joseph

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

Hi, and [SIGN]Welcome to TS4Ms[/SIGN]

I can't help with Bluegreen, but we surely have "wisdom" here who can. I am just impressed/surprised that noone else got the "4ms" id before you

Whatever you do, do NOT give any person or company $ to help you "unload" your interest. Folks here will help you maximize it, enjoy it, etc... and even if after learning the ropes you decide it's not for you, you should never pay anyone an upfront fee to help you sell it.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Depending on how you use it, your UDI is good for many more weeks than you think. It's good for holding FOUR reservations at any one time. ONE Red, TWO White or Blue, ONE any color made less than 90days prior. You can churn as many of these reservations per year as you would like making a new reservation as soon as you check in for any existing reservation. If you like that part of Virginia, or like horses, that's a lot of reservations. For each cabin, 17 ownerships were sold (3x17=51wks) but because there are people like you recently, it is very easy to get lots of reservations.... but because of the horses, maintenance fees are very steep ~$1000/year and then $100 for each week reservation made on top of that. If you got tired of going there you could make lots of deposits into a Weeks RCI account or PFD-Points for Deposit into a Points RCI account. The Points scheme would be a great one if the MFs and HK fees weren't so much (at BGs CMV-Christmas Mountain Village all those fees are half what SC's are so it works great there).

BG buys those UDIs back for about $2500 and sells the points they convert them to for big bucks! I had six of them but never found the niche for renting them out so I gave them all back to BG, since I paid less then that for each I came away OK.

Thank you for your service to our country. Sorry you have let this lie fallow.
I was there in '91; CDR USN Ret

Hello,

I found this forum today and have been trying to absorb the wisdom.

We bought the UDI in Shenandoah Crossing years ago (3 weeks / year). I recall a high pressure event later where they wanted us to convert to points and we declined. And it was entirely forgotten for years as we moved many times.

Now retiring from our Army after 3 years in Iraq, I found the BG info and called and they wanted many thousands of dollars in back maint fees.

The search that led me to this friendly forum also indicates that our propoerty's value may be less than the back BG maint & rec fees.

We're also trying to figure out exactly what we have with the UDI since most of the discussion concerns points.

Obvlously we haven't made good use of the property but we may have better opportunities now. So we may want to reactivate with BG or unload the property or pursue other options.

Suggestions welcome on how best to proceed.

much thank,
joseph

[4ms Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 4ms]

Thank you for the quick replies and Happy Easter!

REPLY
I have used 4ms on other forums; it's easy to remember... And I love serving and will continue in some capacity; I've enjoyed great missions and comrades, however, extended and repeated family separations suck massively.

WAY FORWARD?
We're leaning towards trying to use the property. But recovering from the fallow time may it prohibitive to bring it current and sadly in that case we'd probably just remain in the status quo - bills piling up and no way forward either to use or to unload.

We'd like to hear any advice on overcoming this impasse. From some of the other threads it seems like this may not be uncommon (but perhaps not as egregious), so how is it resolved - other than paying 3 or 4 times the value in back fees?

We understand that other owners and BG would want full payment for these years. On the other hand, we got no value from these years and so we could rationalize that paying the current year fees and moving forward may be good for all. i.e. we're paying $1300/year again and we again have an opportunity to use the property.


VALUE?
Thank you also for reinforcing the value of the UDI. Quick internet search shows SC UDI resale is in the $2-$5k range. Will BG buy it back for $2.5k and forgive the fees? If so, that may be a clean solution...

If this is such a great deal, why does it seem like the resale is less than a roughly equivalent number of points. I may be screwing up the math, but 9000+8000+7000++ puts it at least above the Silver (20k) level. And it seems that Silver point sales are higher. Do the UDI's have the VIP priviledges & include RCI / II, etc (assuming of course the fees are paid).

And are the UDI fees more than the points plan fees?

I have not discovered another discussion on this particular nuance and truly welcome your thoughts and experiences as we try to navigate a way forward for our family.

thanks again,
joseph

[4ms Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 4ms]

Hello again,

Some PMs have suggested that more information is needed. Here's what I found.

We paid ~$8k to AMCLUB, Inc in 1991 for a Deed for 1 / 6000th fraction Undivided Interest as tenant-in-common in Shenandoah Crossing Farm and Club Resort Section.

I believe I have the Resort Cabin since I think the old RCI / BG numbers began with RC. The deed has a unit number xxxxC if that can provide a clue.

thanks again for the help!
joseph

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Thank you for the quick replies and Happy Easter!

REPLY
I have used 4ms on other forums; it's easy to remember... And I love serving and will continue in some capacity; I've enjoyed great missions and comrades, however, extended and repeated family separations suck massively.

WAY FORWARD?
We're leaning towards trying to use the property. But recovering from the fallow time may it prohibitive to bring it current and sadly in that case we'd probably just remain in the status quo - bills piling up and no way forward either to use or to unload.

We'd like to hear any advice on overcoming this impasse. From some of the other threads it seems like this may not be uncommon (but perhaps not as egregious), so how is it resolved - other than paying 3 or 4 times the value in back fees?

We understand that other owners and BG would want full payment for these years. On the other hand, we got no value from these years and so we could rationalize that paying the current year fees and moving forward may be good for all. i.e. we're paying $1300/year again and we again have an opportunity to use the property.


VALUE?
Thank you also for reinforcing the value of the UDI. Quick internet search shows SC UDI resale is in the $2-$5k range. Will BG buy it back for $2.5k and forgive the fees? If so, that may be a clean solution...

If this is such a great deal, why does it seem like the resale is less than a roughly equivalent number of points. I may be screwing up the math, but 9000+8000+7000++ puts it at least above the Silver (20k) level. And it seems that Silver point sales are higher. Do the UDI's have the VIP priviledges & include RCI / II, etc (assuming of course the fees are paid).

And are the UDI fees more than the points plan fees?

I have not discovered another discussion on this particular nuance and truly welcome your thoughts and experiences as we try to navigate a way forward for our family.

thanks again,
joseph

My experience with them and other timeshares is that you owe for each year. You may think that you can proceed as you suggest, but you cannot. You owe for those years and you will probably have to pay what you owe to move forward. Your lack of use does no ameliorate your debts. You might as well say, hey, I didn't have any kids so why should I pay real estate taxes to support the schools.

[Maggie Member Find all posts View Profile Close Maggie]

Unfortunately UDI or points ownership is the same as real estate ownership when it comes to being responsible for your share of the maintenance and taxes. It doesn't matter if you use the property or not, the expenses go on. If you own a property and you don't pay the taxes on it it will eventually get sold to pay the taxes. When that happens the person who buys the property at auction ususally gets a bargain. Because your property has been managed by Bluegreen they have been paying all the maintenance fees and taxes for you. They can't let it go for auction because there are other owners involved too. The other owners have been able to book more than their share of time because you haven't been using yours. But Bluegreen has to make up the deficit of owners who don't pay their fees.

I want to express my appreciation for your service to our country and the world.

I do hope you find some way of using your UDI ownership but unless you have the ability to use this ownership it is hard to get the value out of it. It is much like a boat or a second home. If you can't use it the expenses still continue. In general UDI's are of more value than just owning points because you can get so many more reservations with a UDI. However if you don't make the reservations and then rent them out or use them than you have ongoing expense and no revenue or use.

Best of luck and I do hope that now that you are back in the states you can begin to benefit from your ownership.

Maggie

[4ms Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close 4ms]

Spence,

Thanks for the quick feedback and for your service as well.

ODS / AFVC
I also did the Desert Storm shin dig - mostly in Dhahran area (Jubail, Kobar towers, PSAB, etc), but also in Riyadh and along Tapline road / KKMC and into Kuwait & S. Iraq. Nothing like memories of burning oil!

From on half-pay guy to another, do you have any experience with Armed Forces Vacation Club? Armed Forces Vacation Club I also found it while researching this little issue.


OLD FEES
We certainly understand the back fees and were hoping to find some Good News ref the old fees. Your point is well taken, though one might suggest that the duty to support your government is higher. Perhaps more so if one paid $10k+ for something that's worth [after further analysis] a tenth or twentieth that and then discover that this asset is actually a current bill for another ~$10k.

Please forgive rationalizing that, although attracted to bringing this current, other family funding requirements weigh heavily. And so the status quo impasse may continue - BG seems happy to keep adding fees while we look for resolution.

SUMMARY of thoughts that have been shared and reinforced today today:
1) We paid way too much buying from AMCLUB in 1991, but these tactics remain common.
2) SC UDI may be a good deal IF you actually go there several weeks per year (and perhaps if you 'bank' the weeks with RCI).
3) Old maint & rec fees are forever
4) UDIs do NOT have BG VIP status
5) UDI fees do NOT include RCI
-- corrections invited!


SEGUE

Team,
Additional perspectives welcome, however, the other key questions concern, "What do we have?"

Assuming resolution, what may be the best way forward? Again, further research seems to indicate that UDIs do NOT have any of the VIP privileges and the fees may not even include RCI. But I'm not sure.

And we've seen references to folks 'converting' UDIs to points. Is there a comparison of UDI vs points that includes costs and amenities or probably more importantly maint fee$ per points or weeks?

Also, are their any experiences on the 'trading power' of the SC UDIs? Is it best to bank 'weeks' or points?

The other key take-away seems to be that IT DEPENDS on personal circumstances. So, I'll share and invite feedback. Our circumstances are that we had 3 kids when we bought this in 1991. Our oldest is now in college and we have 3 in HS & 2 in grade school. We prefer to vacation at the beach rather than in the country. I believe we went to SC once in the 90s before we fell off the charts and I don't image that we would go there more than once per year in the future. We now live back in No. VA which is where we were in the early 90s and we intend to remain in this area.

I feel like I've sucked in quite a bit of knowledge in the past day or so from this forum and related sites and I realize that it's coupled with very little experience and I thank you all for sharing!

again, much thanks!
joseph

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Spence,

Thanks for the quick feedback and for your service as well.

ODS / AFVC
I also did the Desert Storm shin dig - mostly in Dhahran area (Jubail, Kobar towers, PSAB, etc), but also in Riyadh and along Tapline road / KKMC and into Kuwait & S. Iraq. Nothing like memories of burning oil!

From on half-pay guy to another, do you have any experience with Armed Forces Vacation Club? Armed Forces Vacation Club I also found it while researching this little issue.


OLD FEES
We certainly understand the back fees and were hoping to find some Good News ref the old fees. Your point is well taken, though one might suggest that the duty to support your government is higher. Perhaps more so if one paid $10k+ for something that's worth [after further analysis] a tenth or twentieth that and then discover that this asset is actually a current bill for another ~$10k.

Please forgive rationalizing that, although attracted to bringing this current, other family funding requirements weigh heavily. And so the status quo impasse may continue - BG seems happy to keep adding fees while we look for resolution.

SUMMARY of thoughts that have been shared and reinforced today today:
1) We paid way too much buying from AMCLUB in 1991, but these tactics remain common.
2) SC UDI may be a good deal IF you actually go there several weeks per year (and perhaps if you 'bank' the weeks with RCI).
3) Old maint & rec fees are forever
4) UDIs do NOT have BG VIP status
5) UDI fees do NOT include RCI
-- corrections invited!


SEGUE

Team,
Additional perspectives welcome, however, the other key questions concern, "What do we have?"

Assuming resolution, what may be the best way forward? Again, further research seems to indicate that UDIs do NOT have any of the VIP privileges and the fees may not even include RCI. But I'm not sure.

And we've seen references to folks 'converting' UDIs to points. Is there a comparison of UDI vs points that includes costs and amenities or probably more importantly maint fee$ per points or weeks?

Also, are their any experiences on the 'trading power' of the SC UDIs? Is it best to bank 'weeks' or points?

The other key take-away seems to be that IT DEPENDS on personal circumstances. So, I'll share and invite feedback. Our circumstances are that we had 3 kids when we bought this in 1991. Our oldest is now in college and we have 3 in HS & 2 in grade school. We prefer to vacation at the beach rather than in the country. I believe we went to SC once in the 90s before we fell off the charts and I don't image that we would go there more than once per year in the future. We now live back in No. VA which is where we were in the early 90s and we intend to remain in this area.

I feel like I've sucked in quite a bit of knowledge in the past day or so from this forum and related sites and I realize that it's coupled with very little experience and I thank you all for sharing!

again, much thanks!
joseph

AFVC gives you access to the same excess weeks that RCI offers it's members. If you're not a member of RCI and can use it, great.

BG wants your UDI but they'll only pay about $2500. They will then put it in their BG points pool and sell the points for tens of thousands as if they were new, a great business to be in.

Trading power of really RED weeks is moderate. Really RED is not Pink or Off-White - really RED is when kids are out of school. ANy other week RED, White, or Blue will get you only the trash that sits around in the RCI system. To be able to cash your SC weeks in for RCI Points you need to have an RCI points account, you can't get that with your SC ownership you need to own another resort that is in RCI Points and converted to RCI Points.

Of course your maintenance fees don't include RCI. Generally you'll find that only in the various points systems like Royal Holiday Club and Wyndham, etc. or only for the first year of a retail purchase.

If you'd like to have lunch sometime later next month, let me know, I'm busy until mid April.

[basham Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close basham]

The tough love and reality check have been taken care of now.

Which was needed, other suggestions.?

[wandering gnome Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close wandering gnome]

Exchange companies

There are other exchange companies besides RCI. Some do not charge membership fees. DAE does not use trading power and might be useful for white and blue weeks. Exchanges are determined on first come serve basis. Check out Exchange Companies under Forum navigation at this site. Also, the Advice tab at www.tugbbs.com and individual companies web sites.

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

PM Me

It was great to have you in our BG chat last night, 4MS. I probably have the most experience of all who have replied as I have made reservations with my former SC UDI and I traded it in for points with BG, adding to my supply of points I already had. I had just been charged $300 in special assessments (this was 2006, so you would have those to pay also), which were being billed $100 per year for three years. I had to pay all of those before they would trade me my UDI for points, which by the way I had to pay them more money to do.............at the time, I was trying to get to 60,000 points and I had 51,000 points. They charged me an exorbitant amount per point, of course, but actually, when taking into account my UDI, the points actually cost me about 85 cents per point.

I would be most happy to discuss this on the phone with you. I will send you a private e-mail with my phone numbers.

The best thing for you to do, IMHO, is to pay your back maintenance fees, recreation fees and special assessments, as much as it will hurt you. They are adding fees/finance charges to all of that as time goes on so it may indeed be your best place to burn some of your money as I know you have other obiligations to take care of also. Depending on how much those are and what they are for, I may be able to help you out with some advice on taking care of all of that too. We teach Financial Peace University at our church, led by Dave Ramsey via DVD videos. Well, Dave teaches and we fac ilitate the class.

If you never want to have credit to purchase anything (which is our way of thinking as it is also Dave's), then who cares if you have a bad credit history? Buying on credit is DUMB......always pay cash, but sometimes you might have to get credit for instance to buy a house OR if your credit goes down the tubes and you already have a mortgage then they might call your loan due. So, there is much to consider.

The big thing is that you need to learn what you own. The one person who gave you advice told you that you can get many more than three reservations per year and that is oh so true. Another person said that no one will want to go to SC in other than red time and that is NOT true. It isn't as attractive to many as a ocean setting but to others, we love it there.

Because of all the fallow time, you may not be able to recoup alot of what you have to pay but you can at least over time recoup some of it through rentals. If you live closeby (sorry I don't remember), such as within five hours or so and live in a metropolitan area, then with perseverance, you should be able to do some rentals and begin to recoup some of your expense, but probably not all. Also, you probably have alot of GI friends who might like to have a nice place to go for little money when they are on leave.

You cannot sell it to BG or anyone else, without first bringing those fees up to date. Even as a service person having served our country during war time, I doubt they will forgive your debt. HOwever, it doesn't hurt to try to negotiate with them for a lesser settlement and give them the deed back with you getting nothing in exchange. That I think would be your best hope in this case.

I did own a UDI at SC and now pretty succesffully rent out my two ownership UDIs that are at Christmas Mountain Village in Wisconsin Dells. These are the only two places that BG has these UDIs and as one person said, the housekeeping fees are less at CMV (about half) and the annual fees are less (about 3/4) but that doesn't mean you can't make a go of it on rentals at SC either. As I said last night, my ownership at SC was the type with limited numbers of them and so availability was scarce. I think yours is the one with lots of units and so availability will be better, though it is a bit smaller unit with only one bathroom and those are not on the lake whereas the other type of ownership (I think I had a deluxe cabin), most of those are right on the lake.

If I had had the "lower" ownership at SC, I probably would have kept it and worked with it a little longer to try to make a go of it isntead of "Giving" it back to BG. My husband was upset with that ownership and wanted to get rid of it. (One thing I hate about buying with BG at owner update is how long you are stuck there finishing paperwork; it's one GOOD reason to NOT buy at an owner update...........BG should figure out a way to make it so buying at an owner update is not such a liability on your time.)

I paid $750 for the "superior" SC UDI ownership in 2005. A friend of mine bought the "lesser" (but easier to get reservations) SC UDI ownership for $500 the same year. However, the "lesser" UDIs at CMV go for much more than that and the "superior" UDIs at CMV for even more.

Anyway, I will send you my contact numbers and we can talk on the phone and I can give you some additional information.

Susan