Message For BlueGreen Owners

[Paskoo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Paskoo]

How can I be an unhappy BlueGreen owner. This has been a money making machine for me. Think of this example:

I booked six units (Monday to Friday) at "The suites at Hershey" for a total of 8400 points. Park is closed in February so the season is considedred Blue. I am using one for myself and renting the five otheres to friends for $75 a night ($300 per unit for four nights). This is $1500 in my pocket for 8400 points, plus I also have the vacation myself in an extremely nice and cozy two bedroom suite with fireplace and Jacuzzi in bedroom and a heated pool down the stairs. This is a huge unit (good for eight people). My friends are thankful for finding such a great deal.

I have been doing things like that ever since I bought this timeshare from resale a few years ago. In fact, I am close to covering my original purchase price. I am running short on points (I am silver) and thinking of going to higher level if and when I have the cash in my hand as opposed to putting it on credit cards. Probably another two yeasrs.


An extremely happy BlueGreen owner
Farooq Nasim

[Timeshare junkie Member Find all posts View Profile Close Timeshare junkie]

Sorry, another happy BG owner!

The original poster must feel like he/she is a Jew at a Klan meeting (really politically incorrect - I know - but an accurate analogy).

I can see both sides.

I feel we were originally tricked. We first bought at Falls Village and fell for the lure of free Dixie Stampede tix. $15000 free tix. We went in to cancel a couple of days later, but were cajoled in to believing we could make a nice profit using BG's 92% success rate at rentals. But of course you sign away everything that you are not using it as an investment, but just to vacation. CLEVER! Now there's a case for a class action. But alas, they scrapped the rental program (probably as they started to feel some heat relating to that 92% rental success rate), and introduced their next carrot - Select Connections (no legalities there).

Reading this, you probably thinking i am ready to sign on for NJ class action (maybe the next installment of Jersey shore will be at Bluegreen's resort). To the contrary. We are happy BG owners. We look at our original purchase as educational expenses (consider: You go to college for 4 years, work your butt off, and still come out 100k+ in debt). We have bought more than once off the resale market, and now know ho to max our ownership.

I hope you learn the same!

[akparsa Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close akparsa]

Yet another one!

I'm another happy Bluegreen owner!

I didn't buy directly from BG, but even sitting through the sales presentation annoyed and offended me. I knew enough before I went to the presentation to know that some of the stuff was misleading, and I hated their manipulative tactics. (there were no outright lies at my presentation, just a lot of sleaze factor). I can see that I might be an angry and frustrated owner right now if I'd bought from them under those circumstances.

That said, the initial cost is sunk now, so your choice is either figure out how to make the best of it, or stay stuck with the anger and bitterness. You can't get the money back.

The good news is that with Bluegreen, the icky stuff seems to stop after you get through the salesperson's web. If you learn a few tricks about the system, it is actually a good value for the MF.

The major trick any BG owner needs to learn is to double up on your MF for one year, borrowing the following year's points. Thereafter you just pay a single MF, but your points are always good for 2 years allowing you to make use of the wait list and get reservations that might otherwise come just after points became saved.

I'm a little surprised that the OP was surprised at having to pay $700 a year in MF. If you're hoping to get a week at a nice vacation every year, you're going to have to pay a reasonable fee every year.

[ben1973 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ben1973]

is this site run by Bluegreen?

Wow... this is the most pro-Bluegreen site I have ever seen. Yes, I did re-post an article I had written before since it would be a lot more trouble to re-write the same information. I did notice that no one addressed the really blatant lies that Bluegreen told us, and instead focused on some smaller points. Nevertheless, I will respond to each here:


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interesting. Bluegreen stopped their owner rentals program a few years ago. can't imagine how you got a check today.
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Although "years ago" is inaccurate, yes, I did not receive a check today. I agree with you that receiving a check from Bluegreen is very improbable, as they are much more interested in taking checks from me.


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This was a complaint on Ripp off a very long time ago I did try to explain to him how to use his points but he would not listen .

It appears that its a copy and paste from that site.
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It's amusing to me that because you "explained" something to me and I didn't use it, I automatically "didn't listen." Believe me, we have tried to use our points various ways. We have tried renting them, we have tried referring people (everyone goes immediately to "Do Not Call" since they apparently are much wiser than we are), and we have tried using them. The reality is we never agreed to pay about $700 a year... the whole concept was that this would be *cheaper* for people who like to vacation, and we could easily go on our vacations cheaper than that. Even with the Bluegreen fees, you still have your travel and food costs as usual, and it's extremely doubtful that we would spend $700 each year on vacations.


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No, you don't have to wait. There is an easy workaround on this. Prepay next years fees which then gets your points into your account now so you can reserve now. That means you have to pay twice the first year but then each year thereafter you prepay so then its only once each year. Of course, the fee for 2011 hasn't been determined yet so when November rolls around you will have to make up the difference.
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That is an easy workaround! By the way, do you have $700 we can use for this endeavor? Bluegreen has already taken the rest of our money.

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I assume they're referring to Big Cedar, which is about as solidly *IN* the Ozarks as you can get. Maybe they got mixed up because they wrote this while in a hot rage, but OTOH if keeping details straight is an ongoing challenge I can see why Bluegreen isn't working for them.
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Actually, it may be in Michigan. This was not written in a "hot rage," as you assume, but Bluegreen does keep us in a constant state of unrest. It's quite amusing that you look at this as evidence of why Bluegreen doesn't work for us. Please address the very calculated lies they told us next time, such as the fact that our property will "increase in value" and can easily be "resold" for more than we paid for it. This is a better argument technique than attacking straw men.


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I have been doing things like that ever since I bought this timeshare from resale a few years ago. In fact, I am close to covering my original purchase price. I am running short on points (I am silver) and thinking of going to higher level if and when I have the cash in my hand as opposed to putting it on credit cards. Probably another two yeasrs.
An extremely happy BlueGreen owner
Farooq Nasim
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If what you say is true, I expect you to contact me so that I can sell you my 10,000 points for $5,000. That's half what I paid for them. That will help you get to a higher level without buying them at full price from Bluegreen. I look forward to hearing from you.

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Reading this, you probably thinking i am ready to sign on for NJ class action (maybe the next installment of Jersey shore will be at Bluegreen's resort). To the contrary. We are happy BG owners. We look at our original purchase as educational expenses (consider: You go to college for 4 years, work your butt off, and still come out 100k+ in debt). We have bought more than once off the resale market, and now know ho to max our ownership.
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I do appreciate this poster not coming across with an arrogant attitude, but I will say again... if you want more points on the resale market, buy them from me. The fact that no one has taken my offer shows how cheap Bluegreen points really are. They promised us an increase in value, and I can't even sell them for half. I'm hoping someone will address this point instead of the usual _ad hominem_ and "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about" arguments.

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I'm a little surprised that the OP was surprised at having to pay $700 a year in MF. If you're hoping to get a week at a nice vacation every year, you're going to have to pay a reasonable fee every year.
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We don't necessarily go on vacation every year. And even when we do, we are limited by where Bluegreen's locations are, and how the weeks work. I will agree with you that there are many people who work for Bluegreen who are very pleasant and understanding. It's really the people at the top of the corporation that bother me...the people who train their salespeople to lie to people's faces and get them into a situation they can never get out of.

Consider this... we could just stop paying our maintenance fees, but they could literally come after us in court. For what? We don't actually *own* anything. Why can't they just say, "Well, they aren't paying their fees... let's let someone else buy their property." But they don't do that because what they are about is *money* and only money. Who cares if their customers are trapped and can't afford these bills anymore? They'll send a debt collection agency after you and ruin your credit. So people get in on a small program like we did, and then they're screwed for the rest of their lives.

I'm actually considering that person's offer who said he'd take our points if we pay the $125 transfer fee. I wonder if that offer is actually serious, or if anyone would like to make an offer for our 10,000 Bluegreen points.

I grow tired of hearing about how great these points are, but then noticing how no one jumps when I want to sell them. It's awfully convenient to make fun of me for not wanting such wonderful points, but then being unwilling to buy mine for half price. Does the phrase "Put you money where your mouth is" sound familiar to you guys?

[vintner Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close vintner]

No, this is not run by Bluegreen, but those of us who have owned BG for a while have learned how to use the system and to get good value for our vacation time. We have learned from this site and have shared our info on this site. We help each other.

Bluegreen rental program was discontinued in 2007, so the statement of 'years ago' was accurate. There are other ways of renting your points, if that is what you want to do.

My maintenance fee is much larger than yours. I also use 2-3 weeks a year and do rent out some time. I have purchased points multiple times, so I do find value in the bluegreen points system.

If you want to sell your points, I would suggest talking to BocaBumm99. Realize that with the economy downturn, nothing is keeping value, whether it is a car, a house or timeshare points.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Hi Ben,

Welcome to our Bluegreen Vacation Club Forum. We welcome you here as well as anyone else who may love, hate or want to learn more about Bluegreen and the Bluegreen Vacation Club.

I am the moderator of this board and I am NOT a Bluegreen employee. I am an independent Real Estate broker and I do resell Bluegreen Vacation Club points. So, I am not a completely unbiased observer. However, I can assure you that the posters here are independent owners and the happy ones are truly happy. They have figured out how to make the Bluegreen Vacation Club work for them. If you hang out here for a while, you will learn how to use it properly and if you vacation, there is a good chance you learn to love it too.

Yes, you are correct that their are a lot of complaint sites out there about Bluegreen sales and marketing tactics. Many of those complaints are common through out the timeshare industry no matter what resort group you buy a timeshare from. The sad fact of this industry is that it uses a very high cost sales and marketing model for selling its products. The timeshare companies offer free gifts to people to come to sales presentations and they close them hard while they are there. Because they have to close them while they are there, they can leave out key information or intentionally/unintentionally misrepresent the product. Most owners buy from one of these sales presentations and they don't learn about the realities of selling a timeshare until they really need to do so. Believe it or not, most of those owners are still very happy with the Club.

That said, Bluegreen is actually a very owner friendly company. Once you get beyond sales and marketing, the rest of the company does its best to help you vacation with as high a quality experience you can have. That is the overwhelming opinion of those who post to this message board.

What we have learned here is that owners who have the right expectation for what the Club can do for them, tend to be happy as long as they vacation. The good news is that by participating in this forum and others like it, you can learn how the Club actually works, when you can expect to get reservations vs. when you are likely not going to get a reservation.

So, if you want to learn the secrets of making Bluegreen work for you, then hang around and learn the tricks. People will share them here. At least you will get the truth about how everything works.

By the way, there is very little chance that you will sell your points for half what you bought them for. You would be lucky to get between $500-1000 for it. That is the sad reality of today's resale market. Not great if you are trying to sell, but really great if you are looking to buy.

Good luck,

Jim

[VA_Traveller Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close VA_Traveller]

That is an easy workaround! By the way, do you have $700 we can use for this endeavor? Bluegreen has already taken the rest of our money.

This was something that my wife and I ran into also, but we did find an easier workaround then this. My anniversary date is May 1, so getting anything in prime time is, as you observed, difficult. Since dues are due in November, what we do is budget so we have the money available in late Sept. We then call and prepay and our next years points are available for booking immediately. You still need to plan ahead and know where you want to go and book it then. Also, if your situation allows it, travel in the shoulder seasons, May and Sept for us.

Please address the very calculated lies they told us next time, such as the fact that our property will "increase in value" and can easily be "resold" for more than we paid for it. This is a better argument technique than attacking straw men.

I don't want to start an argument with you, but you bought real estate. Given the state of that market, everyone has lost value in homes, etc. Real estate is always risky, and carried no guarantee of future value. Shifting blame to the sales pitch deflects blame from yourself, as ultimately, its your signature on the sales agreement.

I do appreciate this poster not coming across with an arrogant attitude, but I will say again... if you want more points on the resale market, buy them from me. The fact that no one has taken my offer shows how cheap Bluegreen points really are. They promised us an increase in value, and I can't even sell them for half. I'm hoping someone will address this point instead of the usual _ad hominem_ and "this guy doesn't know what he's talking about" arguments.

You are correct, BG points on the resale market are now really cheap. This is more reflective of the whole timeshare/ real estate / economic factors then any deliberate attempt of a salesman to hide the truth. Timeshares are a luxury item, and as such, will always be the hardest hit in recessionary times. Even at 50 cents a point, yours are expensive.

If you read some of the threads here, you will see a common theme, the sales people are not well liked. Then again, the term 'used car salesman' and 'He's selling snake oil' didn't develop in a vacuum. Blaming them for what you believed...well, sorry, your not totally blameless here either.

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We don't necessarily go on vacation every year. And even when we do, we are limited by where Bluegreen's locations are, and how the weeks work.

Between BG, Select Connections and RCI, I don't see any limitations that would prevent you from going where you would like.

Consider this... we could just stop paying our maintenance fees, but they could literally come after us in court. For what? We don't actually *own* anything.

Yes you do. If you don't know what you own...what can I say.

Why can't they just say, "Well, they aren't paying their fees... let's let someone else buy their property." But they don't do that because what they are about is *money* and only money.

This is a business with shareholders. Why would you expect ~anything~ else?

Who cares if their customers are trapped and can't afford these bills anymore? They'll send a debt collection agency after you and ruin your credit.

So will banks, hospitals and tanning salons for that matter. Imagine, someone wanting you to honor your obligation.

I grow tired of hearing about how great these points are, but then noticing how no one jumps when I want to sell them. It's awfully convenient to make fun of me for not wanting such wonderful points, but then being unwilling to buy mine for half price. Does the phrase "Put you money where your mouth is" sound familiar to you guys?

As I said, 1/2 price is no deal these days. I would like to get more points also, but I have kids in college, and other expenses that I consider more important right now. Just because no one is jumping to buy your points is not proof that the BG experience is as flawed as you think it is. The guy down the street is selling his beemer, should I buy it simply because its a good car?

I have talked to hundreds of BG owners at the resorts, and while we all have some complaints, overall my impression is that most are quite satisfied with the experience. It sounds like you made an impulse buy, and now have buyers remorse.

Anyone that makes a major purchase without first doing some research...

Caveat emptor.

[vacation_family99 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close vacation_family99]

We purchased with BG 4 years ago. We have really enjoyed our vacations!! What has it allowed us to do? We plan 11 months ahead and then we have wonderful vacations to look forward to! We also pay our maintenance fees ahead of time to maximize when we can use the points.

We have learned a ton by just reading the posts on this site. We have also purchased additional points from Boca Jim.

Take advantage of what you already own ... it really does make for great memories! (I can vouch that I never thought we would be timeshare owners, but my sister introduced us to the BG system and we are very thankful!)

Amy

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Wow... this is the most pro-Bluegreen site I have ever seen.

Come on over to the Bluegreen Yahoo group. I think it is even more pro-Bluegreen.

The reality is we never agreed to pay about $700 a year

Yes you did. You signed papers in which you agreed to a whole bunch of stuff.

the whole concept was that this would be *cheaper* for people who like to vacation, and we could easily go on our vacations cheaper than that.

For about $600 per week I can go to places that would cost $1200-$1500 on the open market.

We don't necessarily go on vacation every year.

Ouch. You signed up for an annual vacation plan but don't vacation annually? In the papers you signed you agreed that buying points is an investment in vacationing and should not be considered a financial investment. In the documents you received on the first real page is the staement: "The prospective purchaser dhould not rely upon oral representations as being correct and should refer to this document and accompanying exhibits for correct representations." And legally you had a period of time in which you could rescind your purchase after you got home and looked at what you signed into.

Does the phrase "Put you money where your mouth is" sound familiar to you guys?

Yes it does. I have purchased BG points many times.

I think your other concerns have been covered but if not, ask them again or point them out again. I want you to enjoy your points as well as I enjoy mine.

Charles

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

Actually, it may be in Michigan.

Mountain Run is in Michigan, but it isn't one of Bluegreen's more popular resorts, so I suspect you meant Big Cedar.

Part of my point about your confusing statement is that you made three errors of fact in a sentence or two, talking about something very basic (the location of a resort), in a relatively low-pressure situation where the facts could be easily checked. But at the same time you expect us to believe that all the details you relate about what your salesperson told you are accurate as reported.

The Bluegreen system is complicated, and people who've owned it for some years are often still working out some aspects of it. Part of the reason Bluegreen has people initial and sign a summary of any contract is that they want to be sure the salesperson didn't lie, but another part of the reason is that few people really understand what the salesperson told them! Even people with a background in timeshares may not be familiar with ideas like Bonus Time, Traveler's Plus, Hot Weeks and whatnot.

If you can't keep track of the fact that the Big Cedar resort in Ridgedale, Missouri is hugely popular, and that Mountain Run in Boyne Falls, Michigan is only fairly popular, you aren't likely to make much money renting, and you may also struggle to make good use of the system as a vacationer. Making good use of a TS points system means you have to plan ahead and have a general idea of when most major holidays are (since you'll want to avoid them if you hate crowds, or reserve as early as possible if you want a unit then), calculate points for different seasons, etc. Making good use of a TS points system means keeping track of a lot of details, one way or another.

I think Timeshare Junkie has a point that, for a lot of people, their first TS purchase ends up being an "educational expense" - costly, but very informative. Personally, I'm astonished at the number of people who get through college (and you're not the only ones by far) without gaining the fundamental knowledge that "you'll never get this chance again, one time offer" means "don't buy this until you've done your research." It may be literally true, in the sense that *that person* won't offer you the chance again, but if it's something worth having, odds are very good someone else will. If the market forces kick out that price one place, they'll probably kick it out again.

And as Charles points out, whatever the salesperson said, and whatever you thought the salesperson said (which aren't always the same with the best of us), you signed a written contract, meaning you agreed to the terms you are now complaining about. I am also amazed at the number of educated people who do that. I would never sign a contract I hadn't read, and if I read a contract and it doesn't fit with the verbal agreement, I ask why not and/or I insist that paragraph be struck out. If the legalese is so dense I can't figure it out, I won't sign it until I run it by a lawyer/someone else more knowledgeable than me who has proven trustworthy.

Hopefully, you now do something similar, and those are valuable practices even if you do feel you paid too much to learn them.

Ouch. You signed up for an annual vacation plan but don't vacation annually?

I believe ben1973 has biennial points, so the vacation plan they signed up for was for people who don't plan to vacation every year.

[Paskoo Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Paskoo]

"If what you say is true, I expect you to contact me so that I can sell you my 10,000 points for $5,000. That's half what I paid for them. That will help you get to a higher level without buying them at full price from Bluegreen. I look forward to hearing from you"


As I mentioned, If and when I have cash in my hand, as opposed to putting it on my credit cards, I will be looking forward to upgrade. I have already used this year's points and am planning to pay next year's MF in advance to borrow points. I know exactly where I would be looking when I am ready to upgrade.

My advice to you is to get over it and try and learn how to use the system and get maximum out of what you own. There is no use crying over spilled milk if that is what you think of your ownership.

"Open mind for a different view and nothing else matters".

[Reelpops Member Find all posts View Profile Close Reelpops]

I can understand what you are feeling from what you have posted. I am most concerned that you are wasting your energy in a lost cause as far as a class action suit. PLEASE don't waste any more of your life hating Bluegreen and trying to get other people to hate bluegreen. There are plenty of people out there who will join in with your rants, but that is not the problem. The problem is that this energy could be focused into trying to make the most of what you have and get to the place where you can manage it instead of it managing you. Life is too short to waste this much time on negative feelings. There are people here who can help you if you want to be helped and will let them. Nothing is worth what it was a few years ago, but you have the ability to enjoy some nice vacations if you will learn how to work the system. Your purchase is not wasted, even though you feel like you are "stuck with it". My point is that, if you are in fact "stuck with it", learn how to approach it in a positive manner and make it work for you. All of these negative feelings will certainly take a toll on your life, and Bluegreen is not worth that. If you can't let it go, then I would advise you to sell at a loss and get as far away from it as you can to make yourself happy. Bear in mind that none of us knows you personally, so we can only give you the advice that we "think" that you need. I am a Gold level BG'nr and enjoy it. If I didn't, I would get out. Try to make it work for your good.

Reelpops

[trites Member Find all posts View Profile Close trites]

We purchased from BG in 97 and we are not always happy especially my husband, and he was the one who made the original decision to purchase it.
I will be the first to admit that it is costly, but the accomodations have been great and eventually the mortgage will be paid off and we will have free time to use it more often. In the meantime we are learning to rent out the points we don't use. We have used at least 1 week a year to go away with my daughter's family who lives 950 miles away from us. It gives me quality time with my grandchildren. This year we are meeting them in Orlando. The price is high but you can't put a price on the memories. Alot of time we use points for hotweeks even if we can't get away for the whole week. We have talked about refinancing it at a lower interest rate but haven't yet. This was a way to make sure we get away from the stresses of everyday life. I hope you can find some positives about the decision you made to purchase into BG.

[Tom in GA Member Find all posts View Profile Close Tom in GA]

Wise Words

We owned a timeshare in Navarre Beach, FL for 23 years until two hurricanes took it away...I mean really GONE! We decided to buy with Bluegreen after some weekend 'invitation' stays. We are now happy with our purchases (Bronze level) and with some added good advice from BoccaBum (Jim).

I would like to tell you a little about what our timeshare salesman told us when we bought out Navarre Beach unit back in 1982. He gave us a 1 hour 'tour' and told us the following:

1. Timesharing is not an investmet....it is a way to go on vacation to nice place for less money.
2. You have to go on vacation in order to enjoy it....if you don't go, you can't enjoy it...you just pay for it.
3. You should pay cash for it or take out a short term low interest loan. You should not be stealing from your bread money to pay for a timeshare.
4. You should vacation at your own timeshare at least 50% of the time. You get to know other owners that way.
5. Here are the 'legal' papers of timesharing for the resort. Go and read them. Don't sign anything until you do....call if you have any questions.
6. Give me $15 for maid fees for three nights stay in a unit and come and see me if you are interested.

We bought our unit on the third day. Thank you Izzy Cagan....a wise and honest salesman. We miss our white sand beach.

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

We owned a timeshare in Navarre Beach, FL for 23 years until two hurricanes took it away...I mean really GONE!

Tom,

This is a little off topic but you are the first person I have encountered who has a first hand experience of their timeshare being "GONE". I am assuming that the buildings were insured. Did you, as an owner, get any of the insurance proceeds? I have always wondered what actually happens in a case such as yours.

Thanks, Charles

PS Your original salesman did give you very good advice as you well know.