Newbie with Sampler - and Questions!

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

Hubby's boss couldn't make the recent reservations at CMV he'd made (he's with RCI), so he gave it to us, instead. Much to my annoyance, when we got there hubby agreed to meet with a salesman for gifts. Much to hubby's astonishment, I agreed to the one year trial.

The salesman wasn't too obnoxious, and we liked Christmas Mountain Village Townhouse muchly, plus the point system excited me. The prices the salesman was suggesting, however, did NOT excite me, and I am most reluctant to sign onto something with yearly charges that might be extremely hard to sell. Nor am I going to go into debt to pay for a vacation; not only are we good at entertaining ourselves, we live 45 minutes from a beach rated in the top ten by Parents Magazine (and it totally deserved it).

I know nothing of time share but I figured there had to be a resell market somewhere - took me forever to find one. Read I dunno how many threads with people complaining about Bluegreen, but most of them seemed to be people who hadn't read the contract (which is not to say reading the contract resolves all the issues I personally have with the sales policy, but most of the stuff people complained about was covered). Plus there were satisfied customers popping up to defend the company on grounds that sounded good to me. Interesting reading but a very inefficient way of collecting information. Next time I'll know to go looking for a discussion board first.

First question - we intended to put in a down payment and then pay the balance as the first payment. I have verbal assurance this means we don't pay the finance charge, but I'm not sure that's in the contract. The contract says we don't pay a penalty for paying off early. I assume that they can't charge us for money we don't borrow, but OTOH the Total Sales Price listed includes the finance charge for the credit, so now I'm nervous. Did we agree to that charge even if we pay it all as our first payment?

Second question - one thing that does seriously concern me is the smoking policy. We've had some disagreements with hotels over what constitutes a non-smoking room, so apparently we're pretty fussy. Although I admit an ionizer does usually resolve the issue - still, there were a few times it most definitely didn't, and I'm wondering how much of an issue it's going to be. Any non-smokers who live with non-smokers who care to comment?

I would predict we'd spend the most time at Mountain Run and CMV, simply because they're closest, and I'm guessing the smoking thing won't be a huge issue there, but we'll probably want to hit one of the ones in TN most years. Hubby's company has a branch out there and we used to go down once a year when my parents lived in Fairfield Glade; the kids and I would hang out with my retired parents while hubby went to work so it didn't cut into his vacation time. My parents recently moved to South Dakota (go figure), much to the chillins' disappointment, so the TN resorts are a major draw. But OTOH TN is tobacco country, so in terms of the smoking thing that's the one I'm most concerned about at the moment.

The whole "pick your dates and call in" thing is not my style - is it possible to call in and say, "I'd like Mon-Thur nights at this resort in this season somewhere that'll sleep six; any openings?", or should I have a list of possible dates in that season and keep throwing them out to see if one catches?

I've read reviews saying that people called requesting MountainLoft where they ended up in Laurel Crest; is this sort of shifting common?

What constitutes "called constantly demanding we go in for updates" in the real world - every day? Twice a day? Every hour? Once? Does saying, "I prefer to go through a reseller, thanks" chase them off - or tick them off? Some people make it sound like they got more hassles for "owner reviews" than they did before signing on, so I've got no way to check that one out for myself.

Although I still have some issues, and we'll see what I think after I've checked out some more resorts, at this point I've got to say that buying into Bluegreen from a registered reseller looks like a great deal to me. I've got five kids, so having a kitchen is a great draw; we homeschool and have quirky tastes so generally go off season anyhow; and we're good with getting rooms Mon-Thur so we have the weekend to "recover" - or to work on the house. The people who get most frustrated with BG seem to be those who got in over their heads financially; those who wanted something totally different; or those who don't seem to get the system, none of which apply to us. Assuming I do get the system, that is.

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

I love Bluegreen as do most of the people on this forum. You have a GREAT handle on everything! The sampler is an excellent way to help you figure out if timesharing is for you, if BG is for you and how many points you might think you need to start out with. You have the first two covered already! That's great. You are well ahead on the learning curve and much further than some folks who have been owners for years; pay their annual maintenance fees and dues and yet never have taken a BG points vacation.

One issue that you are most likely are not aware of is that Bluegreen has signed a Letter of Intent for Diamond Resorts International to purchase Bluegreen. Some sort of action has to happen by September 15, or the deal is off.

Some things to consider when buying resale:
1. If you do not buy from an authorized reseller, you do not get all of the benefits of buying from the developer. Still, buying from an authorized reseller will cost at least 2/3 less than buying from the developer and buying other resale, will cost you even less.
2. Be careful of E-bay: there are less than reputable sellers on there; I have bought BG resale points only once the others have been through word of mouth--mostly on the Yahoo Bluegreen group board. Join that one too, if you would like to and between both you will learn all the ins and outs of buying resale.
3. Knowing what anniversary date you are buying into and especially, whether they are annual points or EOY (every other year). Also, there are varying ways that maintenance fees are calculated, depending on what trust the deed is held. This probably is the MOST confusing but it is do-able. Some are a better value than others.
4. There are other types of BG ownerships too on the resale market: floating weeks (especially the UDI from Christmas Mountain Village) and fixed weeks.

That's probably enough for right now...............................

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Smoking, Updates, Etc.

Second question - one thing that does seriously concern me is the smoking policy. We've had some disagreements with hotels over what constitutes a non-smoking room, so apparently we're pretty fussy. Although I admit an ionizer does usually resolve the issue - still, there were a few times it most definitely didn't, and I'm wondering how much of an issue it's going to be. Any non-smokers who live with non-smokers who care to comment?

I would predict we'd spend the most time at Mountain Run and CMV, simply because they're closest, and I'm guessing the smoking thing won't be a huge issue there, ... OTOH TN is tobacco country, so in terms of the smoking thing that's the one I'm most concerned about at the moment.

The whole "pick your dates and call in" thing is not my style - is it possible to call in and say, "I'd like Mon-Thur nights at this resort in this season somewhere that'll sleep six; any openings?", or should I have a list of possible dates in that season and keep throwing them out to see if one catches?

I've read reviews saying that people called requesting MountainLoft where they ended up in Laurel Crest; is this sort of shifting common?

What constitutes "called constantly demanding we go in for updates" in the real world - every day? Twice a day? Every hour? Once? Does saying, "I prefer to go through a reseller, thanks" chase them off - or tick them off? Some people make it sound like they got more hassles for "owner reviews" than they did before signing on, so I've got no way to check that one out for myself.

My wife and I are non-smokers. Smoking is becoming less and less of a problem. We have only had one real problem in 10 years and it was at CMV. But now they say smoking in the unit is not permitted. It was not a problem at Laurel Crest.

Regarding getting a reservation, either process should work. But it would be easiest for the reservation person if you would suggest a date and a resort and if nothing is available, try different dates and/or resorts. It sounds like you are planning to go off season Monday-Friday which means you will just about always get what you want.

I have never heard of anyone being put in a different resort. I wonder if the "complainers" asked for a reservation in Tennessee and not specifically at Mountain Loft. (However, if a resort is completely booked for a particular week, and the upstairs shower floods the downstairs unit, the unit is unusable and management has a big struggle in finding something else. So I guess it could happen. But I have never met anyone to whom it actually happened.)

Regarding getting called for "updates", just say not interested, thank you, and hang up. You will probably be called before you leave for the resort and several times at the resort. If that is too annoying, you might just say that you had an update two weeks ago (it now has to be less than a month). If the caller says, "No you didn't", then say and I won't this time either. Thank you. And hang up.

And as Susan said, you are already way ahead of the curve.

You might also consider joining the Bluegreen Yahoo group. In a short time, you will be helping others.

Charles

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

One issue that you are most likely are not aware of is that Bluegreen has signed a Letter of Intent for Diamond Resorts International to purchase Bluegreen. Some sort of action has to happen by September 15, or the deal is off.

Yah, I picked that up eavesdropping on some owners in CMV. I seem to have picked up their wariness of the whole ideal as well. I like that Bluegreen is smallish at this point. But I haven't looked into Diamond yet at all.

buying from an authorized reseller will cost at least 2/3 less than buying from the developer and buying other resale, will cost you even less.

Good; that's the impression I was getting.

3. Knowing what anniversary date you are buying into and especially, whether they are annual points or EOY (every other year). Also, there are varying ways that maintenance fees are calculated, depending on what trust the deed is held. This probably is the MOST confusing but it is do-able. Some are a better value than others.
4. There are other types of BG ownerships too on the resale market: floating weeks (especially the UDI from Christmas Mountain Village) and fixed weeks.

That's probably enough for right now...............................

Yes, because numbers three and four read "more research needed" all over.

My wife and I are non-smokers. Smoking is becoming less and less of a problem. We have only had one real problem in 10 years and it was at CMV.

That sounds livable.

it would be easiest for the reservation person if you would suggest a date and a resort and if nothing is available, try different dates and/or resorts. It sounds like you are planning to go off season Monday-Friday which means you will just about always get what you want.

I'm hoping you're right!

I have never heard of anyone being put in a different resort. I wonder if the "complainers" asked for a reservation in Tennessee and not specifically at Mountain Loft.

I get the impression from one lady that she'd asked for Gatlinburg, they'd told her Laurel Crest and when she asked, "Is that the one in Gatlinburg?" they'd assured her it was. So she did get a tip-off something wasn't right from the git go. It doesn't seem to be a common thing and certainly could be just an occasional miscommunication.

You might also consider joining the Bluegreen Yahoo group.

I was not crazy about the Yahoo system when I was regularly using it some years back, but I suppose I should break down and go give it a look and see if I can set my preferences differently or something.

Thanks muchly, both of you.

Another question:

Is the three-day minimum peculiar to the Sampler, or S.O.P.?

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

I want to know how you did the several quotes from various messages! I really liked that!

Points owners have a minimum two day reservation using points. You can reserve bonus time for one night but it costs you two nights' worth of money for the bonus time. (Advantage: if you only need one night and they end up with one night here and there, you can still get it; unlike before--you had to find two sequential days to even reserve. This was a very smart change on BG's part....with being able to reserve partial weeks, no doubt they did end up with alot of single nights.)

Lodge Alley Inn in Charleston SC is the only exception (that I know of) and you can reserve points or bonus time for one night ONLY. Then there are the resorts (not owned by BG) that are full week only reservations.

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

I want to know how you did the several quotes from various messages! I really liked that!

I hit "multiquote" and then pull the quote tag from each message and carry it along as I read through it, cutting what I don't want to quote using backspace so I don't lose the first quote tag and then pasting it in front of the bit I want to quote. I close each bit by typing </quote> (using brackets instead of angles). It'd be easier to read it I opening each quote after the first with <quote> (brackets again) instead of the full name - easier to find where I change who I'm quoting from, that is - but that requires cutting the name out and recopying and I don't go that far.

Which is likely a more fussy approach than you were hoping for, I'm afraid.

Points owners have a minimum two day reservation using points. You can reserve bonus time for one night but it costs you two nights' worth of money for the bonus time.

That'll work. CMV is kind of halfway between us and my parents (depending on Chicago traffic), and I was speculating on stopping there on the way out or back sometime.

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

I hit "multiquote" and then pull the quote tag from each message and carry it along as I read through it, cutting what I don't

Well, I never noticed multi-quote before and have lots of times wished I could do something like that! Thanks!

I want to know how you did the several quotes from various messages! I really liked that!

See? I'm just geeky enough that I had to try this out!

Hubby's boss couldn't make the recent reservations at CMV he'd made (he's with RCI), so he gave it to us, instead.

That was really sweet of his boss! I hope you received a nice "gift" for attending the sales presentation.............plus his boss will get at least $50 referral credit for having you attend..................hopefully, he will make sure he gets it!

The prices the salesman was suggesting, however, did NOT excite me, and I am most reluctant to sign onto something with yearly charges that might be extremely hard to sell. Nor am I going to go into debt to pay for a vacation.

Three very good thoughts; hard to remember these things when being pressed by a timeshare salesperson. Congratulations for sticking to your guns!

First question - we intended to put in a down payment and then pay the balance as the first payment. I have verbal assurance this means we don't pay the finance charge, but I'm not sure that's in the contract. The contract says we don't pay a penalty for paying off early. I assume that they can't charge us for money we don't borrow, but OTOH the Total Sales Price listed includes the finance charge for the credit, so now I'm nervous. Did we agree to that charge even if we pay it all as our first payment?

We did this at least on our first time we purchased and we did not have to pay all of the finance charges when we paid off early later that same month. I believe the Total Sales Price has to include all of the finance charges by reason of total disclosure of the total cost/expenses to you. What I am questioning about this: did you finance the sampler? I'm surprised they would let you do that but otherwise, with these comments, it sounds as though you did get a mortgage/loan for buying points...............or is that all the way it would have been IF you had bought points?

The whole "pick your dates and call in" thing is not my style - is it possible to call in and say, "I'd like Mon-Thur nights at this resort in this season somewhere that'll sleep six; any openings?", or should I have a list of possible dates in that season and keep throwing them out to see if one catches?

I have done fairly non-specific requests like that and they are very willing to try to accommodate...............I do think sometimes then they miss opportunities for you though as they are trying to scan availability. What usually happens with me when I ask them to do that is because I have tried several different dates at the same resort for the same size unit and there is no availability and then I will finally say, "well, what's the next opening you have for this resort in a two bedroom?" They are SOOOOOOOOOOOO willing and helpful on the reservation line.

What constitutes "called constantly demanding we go in for updates" in the real world - every day?

It truly varies from one time to the next. They are now into calling you before you even leave home. Some people hold out for a better offer (as an owner) or tell them how much they are willing to take to go to an "owner update" which is truly the hook to get you into a sales presentation to upgrade your points package to a higher points level. After registering, then they send you to the concierge for a parking pass; they have you hooked there--you can't say well we don't need any info and bypass them. You need to get that parking pass. That's the first time at the resort, that they will try to get you to bite on an owner update.

Some of us are known as moochers in the yahoo group--those of us who go to the owner update fully intending on not buying and doing so only for the gift and any information they might be able to tell us that truly is new but most of the time we get info on these boards even before the sales staff knows about it.

If you mention resale to them, they will totally challenge it and tell you how very BAD resale is............can't use 'em...........don't get all the benefits (yes, somewhat, true).............the original owner can still use them........and the gamut.............be careful with resale too, that you consider ALL THE COSTS involved in making the purchase.........when calculating your price per point.

Although I still have some issues, at this point I've got to say that buying into Bluegreen from a registered reseller looks like a great deal to me. I've got five kids, so having a kitchen is a great draw; we homeschool and have quirky tastes so generally go off season anyhow; and we're good with getting rooms Mon-Thur.

Bluegreen is absolutely fantastic for home schoolers because you can travel in the off season................that is a major beef of many of the complaining owners..........they have too few points to get reservations in the summer for a whole week.................recently, the rules changed for the better for these people and now you can book a partial week in any season 11 months out...................it used to be in more popular seasons, you had to wait until 5 months out to be able to book a partial week.

The people who get most frustrated with BG seem to be those who got in over their heads financially; those who wanted something totally different; or those who don't seem to get the system, none of which apply to us. Assuming I do get the system, that is.

You are way ahead of the learning curve as I said.....you understand a WHOLE lot already! And you are right on your reasons why people are complaining about BG............and alot of times, they blame the salesperson for lying to them (and they do LIE and I have been lied to by them but most are decent people just trying to make a living)--but I say it is human nature to remember the GREAT times they were told they could have on the mega million point package that they couldn't afford................so then they get offered a package they can "afford" and they snatch it up, but are still remembering what they could have done with the mega million points.....not equating that they are buying a smaller points package.

Good job! And can you tell that I like this multi quoting stuff!!!!!?????

Susan

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

By the way, you are also way ahead of the game in that you are looking toward buying resale points.............for some of the others of us, who paid full price initially (and some for a LARGE # of points), consider it somewhat of an initiation fee! And quite frankly, some of us -- had we known about resale or found out within the recission period and cancelled...........we probably would not have even bought resale as it still takes a pretty good chunk of change to do that (with no mortgage possibility, though I with you about NEVER buying a timeshare wiht a mortgage--especially to the developer at those prices--only to have something tragic happen and you can't make the payment any more and you THEN find out that your points are worth pennies on the dollar that you paid for them.)............and we would have missed out on some wonderful vacations...........we would not have gone to Acapulco, the Dominican Republic or even Branson or Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head Island and others.

And there are others of us who have also bought from the developer more than once for varying reasons, even after we knew about and had made resale purchases. (and it used to be that any resale points you purchased were authorized points and you got all of the same benefits as if you had purchased from the developer--can't blame them for stopping that!)

THe only authorized reseller of BG points is Pinnacle Vacations. Boca Bum on this board is a referral agent for Pinnacle. by the way, guess who owns Pinnacle Vacations--Bluegreen does! AND isn't that amazing that resale points are SOO bad according to the salespersons but BG actually sells resale points anyway?????

OH!! one other thing; the people trying to coerce you into attending an owner update get a kick back financially for each person they get to attend. Yours would not be an owner update, probably, though since you are not an owner, but they would want you to know what they will do for you--knocking the price you paid for the sampler off your purchase price and any points you have left over, they will add it to your first year points so you won't lose them. whooopeee! But they will definitely want to get a sampler owner into a sales presentation BIG TIME.

[Hobbitess Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Hobbitess]

Well, I never noticed multi-quote before and have lots of times wished I could do something like that!

You can do it without multi-quote in Internet Explorer by hitting control "n" and copying the thread however many times you have posts you want to quote, then hit "quote" on each post and pull them all together in one window. I presume there's a similar function to control "n" in Firefox but I've never figured it out; control "n" works in that it gives me a new window, but it's totally new so it takes me back to my homepage, while copying in Explorer duplicates the page I'm on.

That was really sweet of his boss!

Wasn't it? He's a good guy. We got tickets for seven to the Tommy Bartlett Exploratory, which was a deal for us. I was wondering if hubby's boss would get anything, since he's RCI - glad to know he will. He disapproves of Bluegreen, though. Thinks we should go for the traditional week-long thing, when it's the flexibility of Bluegreen that really excited us.

What I am questioning about this: did you finance the sampler? I'm surprised they would let you do that

Yep, they offered to finance us. I thought that was pretty standard; they've got the information to check your credit rating long before. Tracked down the SEC info on them - says they finance 95% of their buyers. I thought timeshare companies liked to finance because that's where they make a chunk of their income-? And if I'm correctly understanding their conversion ratio of sales to prospects who show up, they're selling to one in four. I wonder what percentage of that is the Sampler - they wouldn't have sold anything to us without that option.

but otherwise, with these comments, it sounds as though you did get a mortgage/loan for buying points...............or is that all the way it would have been IF you had bought points?

It looks to me like a pretty standard short-term loan like you'd get for an appliance or what not, but I've never signed one of those so I dunno. Definitely not on par with a mortgage; it's not even a page-and-an-half long.

What usually happens with me when I ask them to do that is because I have tried several different dates at the same resort for the same size unit and there is no availability and then I will finally say, "well, what's the next opening you have for this resort in a two bedroom?"

I think I'll just have a good long list of possibilities and run through them. We'd like to go more places than hubby has time for anyhow.

After registering, then they send you to the concierge for a parking pass; they have you hooked there--you can't say well we don't need any info and bypass them. You need to get that parking pass.

Define "hooked." You don't get the pass until agreeing to the update? Hubby will get snappish if that's how it works.

If you mention resale to them, they will totally challenge it and tell you how very BAD resale is............can't use 'em...........don't get all the benefits (yes, somewhat, true)

Somewhat true? Which benefits? Yeah, I figured they'd challenge resale, but basically for me it's resale or nothin' - they may think I can afford to buy from them, but I disagree. I'll just bore them into despair with my penny-pinching ways ("did you know you can tour Witches Gulch without taking one of those overpriced boat tours? It's all I really wanted to see, and it only cost us three bucks a person!"). Or I could be really cruel and encourage hubby to explain to them the arcana of reselling Lego at a profit.

be careful with resale too, that you consider ALL THE COSTS involved in making the purchase.........when calculating your price per point.

Price for points/timeshare, closing costs, reselling fee, yearly maintenance fee, yearly ownership charge… what am I missing?

recently, the rules changed for the better for these people and now you can book a partial week in any season 11 months out...................it used to be in more popular seasons, you had to wait until 5 months out to be able to book a partial week.

I really do get the impression that, aside from occasional sales abuses, Bluegreen is responsive to the needs of the people it's serving.

and alot of times, they blame the salesperson for lying to them (and they do LIE and I have been lied to by them but most are decent people just trying to make a living)--but I say it is human nature to remember the GREAT times they were told they could have on the mega million point package that they couldn't afford.....

Yah. I think a lot of the complaints boil down to people hearing what they want to hear. I've done it myself. What breaks my heart is the people who sign in good faith but then lose a job or a spouse and are really struggling with the payments.

we probably would not have even bought resale as it still takes a pretty good chunk of change to do that

We'll see if we can pull it off. We haven't really talked about it beyond me throwing numbers at him and hubby saying he thinks we can afford it - I assume he means we'll get that and not the deck we were talking about.

And there are others of us who have also bought from the developer more than once for varying reasons, even after we knew about and had made resale purchases. (and it used to be that any resale points you purchased were authorized points and you got all of the same benefits as if you had purchased from the developer--can't blame them for stopping that!)

I can see reasons we'd prefer to buy direct from Bluegreen, and I suspect there will be more reasons as time goes on, but at this point it's resale or we're not buying I suspect.

Boca Bum on this board is a referral agent for Pinnacle.

I was figuring on contacting him if we decide to buy, but that won't be until next summer I'm guessing. Unless the Diamond thing goes through - not sure what will do in that case. But at this point we figure on using the Sampler for its intended purpose before we make any further commitment.

But they will definitely want to get a sampler owner into a sales presentation BIG TIME.

They told us they have a 98% conversion rate on people who take samplers. Dunno if that's reality, but I'll bet it's what they aim for.