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Bluegreen eBay auctions: apples to apples comparison

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  • Bluegreen eBay auctions: apples to apples comparison

    For a couple of months, I have been wondering what the market price is for Bluegreen Vacation Club points. And, I've wondered how much the "new program" points are worth relative to the "old program" points (I'll post another thread to explain the new program vs. the old program when I have time). I think I now have an answer. The model is fairly complex, so if you need further explanation, post a question on this thread or send me a PM and I'll help you understand it. In any event, I wanted to help people compare various BVC deals so that they could make an informed choice when they buy.

    Well, I collected eBay completed BVC auctions over the past two months and I created a model to normalize every auction that sold to make every completed transaction comparable. In other words, I wanted to create a model where I could reduce the auction down to a "real cost per point" as opposed to the fake cost per point that one gets by dividing the purchase price by the number of points.

    The variables of the model are as follows:

    1) Purchase Price which is the completed auction price.

    2) Closing costs. Almost every auction overcharged the buyer.

    3) Maintenance fees. As listed, I think most auctions had last years fees. If anything, these are understated. Due diligence is required to determine the exact amount.

    4) Annual points. If it were an Every Other Year deal, I divided this by two.

    5) Bonus points. I assumed every auction had this year's points available for the reimbursed maintenance fees. This needs to be checked for every auction as I am sure the assumption is incorrect. Bonus points were last year's points included in the deal. I valued those points at the cost of the MF for those points. They are actually worth less since saved points cannot be used for high red, ultra red, special red and leaf season.

    Some notes:

    1) the purple indicates the actual ebay completed auction number.

    2) the red (EOY) indicates that the points are every other year points.

    3) "upfront cost per point" is the purchase price plus excess closing costs divided by number of points. I net out the bonus points.

    4) 6 year maintenance savings. Various Bluegreen contracts have different methods for calculating maintenance fees. Some are more favorable than others with the "new program" points being the most favorable of all for large accounts. I assumed the baseline maintenance fee is the same as the old program which is $.054/point. Then, I project savings out over 6 years and discount those savings to today's dollars using a discount rate of 6%. I picked 6 years as the expected time of ownership. If you keep your points more than 6 years and you have significant annual savings in maintenance fees, then the purchase is even more favorable.

    5) Real cost per point. This is the effective cost per point when all over charges and discounted maintenance fees are netted out of the purchase price. In other words, each person would be paying exactly the same cash over 6 years in each of these deals if they paid the real cost per point upfront.

    I know this is complex, so if you have questions, let me know. The model is sound and it does a good job of comparing eBay deals. The real cost changes a bit if you change the discount rate or the expected ownership period.

    I'll post my summary and conclusions in the next thread.
    My Rental Site
    My Resale Site

  • #2
    Conclusions

    Here are some observations I can make from the model I created:

    1) New Program points are worth between $.045-.12 per point more than old program points. In other words, buying 60,000 points in the new program at $.47/point is the same as buying 6 - 10,000 point contracts in the old program for $.35. This is due primarily to the tremendous savings in maintenance fees you get when you have a lot of points in the new program.

    2) Even at only 15,000 points, the maintenance fees are worth $.045/point more than in the old program. This explains partially why Bluegreen is creating a Bronze level of ownership.

    3) eBay auctioneers are ripping off buyers by overcharging them on closing by an average of $285. The average closing costs for each auction is $510 when it costs only $225 to transfer an ownership of Bluegreen points. And that's if you want to use them for escrow. If you don't want to use them for escrow it's $125. This is highway robbery.

    4) The average "real cost per point" of Bluegreen annual points is $.427 per point over the past 2 months. This accounts exclusion of an outlier for an auction that sold for $.84/point.

    5) The average "real cost per point" of Bluegreen EOY points is $.48 per point. This accounts for netting out of one deal where I think the bidder thought he was bidding on EY points and over paid. I do think that this effect of people bidding on what they think is every year points when the auction is indeed every OTHER year points accounts for most of the increase in purchase price.

    6) This data suggests that the market value for Bluegreen Vacation Club points is between $.40-45/point for old program points and between $.45-.50/point for a new program bronze level ownership and $.52-.57/point for a new program platinum level ownership. This is after you net out all extraneous costs and adjust for maintenance fee savings.
    My Rental Site
    My Resale Site

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    • #3
      Wow, that's an incredible workout. Thanks.

      Let me make sure I got it right. You derived the 0.045-0.12 difference purely based on the hypothetical calculation comparing the reference purchase in old system and various packages of the new system. The ebay number bassically gives you the current average price for the OLD system (apparently there is no ebay auction of the new program yet), from which you could derive the reasonable new program price.

      If this is all correct, I think you need to add a few more row illustrating the number for someone that's already in the new program, and purchasing additional 10K, 15 K, 20K etc. Ithis should be different from the one you had, as the calculation would not include the base price of $290.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by xzhan02
        Wow, that's an incredible workout. Thanks.

        Let me make sure I got it right. You derived the 0.045-0.12 difference purely based on the hypothetical calculation comparing the reference purchase in old system and various packages of the new system. The ebay number bassically gives you the current average price for the OLD system (apparently there is no ebay auction of the new program yet), from which you could derive the reasonable new program price.

        If this is all correct, I think you need to add a few more row illustrating the number for someone that's already in the new program, and purchasing additional 10K, 15 K, 20K etc. Ithis should be different from the one you had, as the calculation would not include the base price of $290.
        Yes, you've got it exactly correct on all accounts.

        I thought about the scenario you described for adding on additional points to an existing new program account. But, I thought it would choke the reader with information overload.

        The bottom line is that the new maintenance fee program is incredibly good for larger accounts. It allows you to start small and add on points to get all the benefits of lower maintenance fees later. I'll describe this a bit more when I explain the different maintenance fee programs in another thread. We've got to help the reader eat the elephant one bite (or one byte) at a time.
        My Rental Site
        My Resale Site

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by BocaBum99
          We've got to help the reader eat the elephant one bite (or one byte) at a time.
          I uusally process my information one bit at time.
          “Maybe you shouldn't dress like that.”

          “This is a blouse and skirt. I don't know what you're talking about.”

          “You shouldn't wear that body.”

          Comment


          • #6
            Eoy

            Maybe I should sell my EOY contract, seeing the high sale price they get on ebay... While I was tracking ebay BG sales, I emailed warnings to several high bidders of EOY (especially the every even years) listing, and got a big THANK you each time.

            There are two things strange about my EOY contract: 1) It is deeded for an even year unit, but I get points in Odd year. 2) The deeded week is in Blue or white season and should worth only 7000 or 8000 points, but I get 9000 pt. I called BG before my purchase, and was told "points are points" etc... Since I got a good price and did get 9000 pt, I don't worry, but at resale, is this going to be a problem ?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by xzhan02
              Maybe I should sell my EOY contract, seeing the high sale price they get on ebay... While I was tracking ebay BG sales, I emailed warnings to several high bidders of EOY (especially the every even years) listing, and got a big THANK you each time.

              There are two things strange about my EOY contract: 1) It is deeded for an even year unit, but I get points in Odd year. 2) The deeded week is in Blue or white season and should worth only 7000 or 8000 points, but I get 9000 pt. I called BG before my purchase, and was told "points are points" etc... Since I got a good price and did get 9000 pt, I don't worry, but at resale, is this going to be a problem ?
              You will only know when you sell it and after it transfers. I give it 67% or more chance that the new owner will continue to get 9000 EOY points.
              My Rental Site
              My Resale Site

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              • #8
                I would love to understand Bluegreen points

                I read your sales ad in www.vacationtimesharerentals.com It was a pretty good explanation, even for me. Lots of points for a good price.

                I want to buy Foxrun for the trading power, a pure week, no points. But I keep thinking I should sell a bunch of our weeks and buy those points. I am so easily tempted.

                Anyway, I wish I just had $21,000 lying around right now because it is so tempting!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by shopgirl
                  I want to buy Foxrun for the trading power, a pure week, no points. But I keep thinking I should sell a bunch of our weeks and buy those points. I am so easily tempted.
                  Oh, so you don't want to know that there's a Foxrun week on eBay (http://tinyurl.com/mt4f6) for a $1,500 opening price, no bids yet, and 3 banked weeks.

                  sc
                  --
                  "Because there is good, and there is evil, and evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this."
                  -- Rorschach, Watchmen

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I did see that.

                    I have been watching that one. I wonder how popular a week 51 would be? It shows as red, but is it RED or just pinkish red?

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                    • #11
                      Well, the BG points chart only shows "red" for Foxrun (no Ultra Red, etc.). However, a week 51, Christmas week, is generally high demand just about anywhere.

                      sc
                      --
                      "Because there is good, and there is evil, and evil must be punished. Even in the face of Armageddon I shall not compromise in this."
                      -- Rorschach, Watchmen

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Updated to eBay completed auctions

                        Here is an updated .pdf file that includes auctions over the past month. Notice that the average real cost for EY points is $.44/point and the average real cost for EOY points is $.46/point. The data is converging around these numbers.

                        I did not include UDI auctions that have recently sold.
                        My Rental Site
                        My Resale Site

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                        • #13
                          Does anyone have a tool that facilitates Bluegreen apples to apples comparison?

                          I was thinking it would be great to have a spreadsheet into which you could input all of the variables for each package (i.e. MFs, upfront costs, etc.), to measure the relative value of each?

                          Thanks.

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