Point Values

[Keep Traveling Member Find all posts View Profile Close Keep Traveling]

Is there any real difference between the following:

EOY = 20,000 pts and 10,000 yearly points

What would be the pros and cons of the two situations.

Thanks,
KT
Heith

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

They are equivalent packages in Bluegreen's eyes. However, there are some practical differences.

Let's say you have a July 1 anniversary date for both packages and the bi-annual package has an odd year. In the normal course of getting your points, you would receive 20000 points on July 1, 2009 in the bi-annual and 10000 for the annual. So, you get 10000 points front loaded for the same amount of maintenance fees. However, this is a one-time benefit only.

The other important difference is when points turn into saved points. In an annual points package, all points turn into saved points after one year and then expire after the second year. So, the 10000 points granted on July 1, 2009 will turn into saved points on July 1, 2010 and will expire on July 1, 2011.

In a 20000 point bi-annual package with July 1, 2009 anniversary date. 10000 of the points will turn into saved points on July 1, 2010 if none are used. All points expire on July 1, 2011.

On the resale market, bi-annual points are much less desirable. 90% of buyers or more want annual points. This is mostly due to the hassle in managing multiple bi-annual points packages.

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

In addition to Boca's great explanation.....

Some folks really like having double the points every other year especially if they don't know about the price difference of developer points versus resale points. They may be willing to go on a GREAT vacation every other year instead of one nice vacation every year. By having EOY points, you can do that.

Boca has been recently mentioning that with Trust Fund E EOY Points, your maintenance fees with EOY points are considerably higher than the equivalent number of annual points.


Susan

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

Boca has been recently mentioning that with Trust Fund E EOY Points, your maintenance fees with EOY points are considerably higher than the equivalent number of annual points. Susan

Yes, I have heard that but I can't understand why. If there is a difference, could someone show me the calculation which makes it so.
Charles

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Yes, I have heard that but I can't understand why. If there is a difference, could someone show me the calculation which makes it so.
Charles

This is NOT so. To calcuate maintenance fees for EOY points in Trust Fund E, all you do is take 1/2 of the bi-annual points and use the exact same formula. In other words, 10000 annual points and 20000 every other year points have the exact same maintenance fees and taxes of $681.

What people may be misinterpreting is that if you own a very small number of points, you end up paying a very high maintenance fee per point. That is true whether you own annual or bi-annual points.

For instance, let's say you own 8000 bi-annual points in Trust Fund E. Your ANNUAL maintenance fees are: $458.40. Add in the $129 annual dues and you pay $587.40 for what amounts to as 4000 annual points. That is $.1469/point. A non-owner can easily rent points from another owner for $.08/point. So, if you are going to own, you should either NOT own Trust Fund E points or you should rent.

The EXACT same calculation and conclusion holds for a 4000 point annual package.

[VA_Traveller Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close VA_Traveller]

This is NOT so. To calcuate maintenance fees for EOY points in Trust Fund E, all you do is take 1/2 of the bi-annual points and use the exact same formula. In other words, 10000 annual points and 20000 every other year points have the exact same maintenance fees and taxes of $681.

What people may be misinterpreting is that if you own a very small number of points, you end up paying a very high maintenance fee per point. That is true whether you own annual or bi-annual points.

For instance, let's say you own 8000 bi-annual points in Trust Fund E. Your ANNUAL maintenance fees are: $458.40. Add in the $129 annual dues and you pay $587.40 for what amounts to as 4000 annual points. That is $.1469/point. A non-owner can easily rent points from another owner for $.08/point. So, if you are going to own, you should either NOT own Trust Fund E points or you should rent.

The EXACT same calculation and conclusion holds for a 4000 point annual package.

Interesting...

have you ever calculated the breakeven # of points, where its cheaper to own then rent @ 8 cents a point.

Another thing that I have always wondered is if there is a certain point level where you have enough to pay your maint fees with points, and also have enough to do some vacationing?

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

You used to be able to pay your maintenance fees with points and have some leftover to use but not with the latest reduction in what points are worth to pay maintenance fees. It's got some people rather upset.

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

This is NOT so. To calcuate maintenance fees for EOY points in Trust Fund E, all you do is take 1/2 of the bi-annual points and use the exact same formula. In other words, 10000 annual points and 20000 every other year points have the exact same maintenance fees and taxes of $681.

What people may be misinterpreting is that if you own a very small number of points, you end up paying a very high maintenance fee per point. That is true whether you own annual or bi-annual points.

I was going by what you said in the Yahoo group from a post you made on 1/28 that indicated that EOY points owners pay much MORE in maintenance fees than annual points owners do or at least that's how I (and apparently Charles also) interpreted it. This is what you wrote:

I wish Bluegreen would stop selling every other year points mostly because owners who have 10000 every other year points or less are paying way too much for maintenance fees every year. But, I doubt they will.

However, even if Bluegreen stops selling every other year packages, there are plenty on the resale market to satisfy any future demand for it.

From that I made an assumption (and asked if my assumption was correct and did not receive a reply) that an EOY contract would have to pay the base price of $310 each year regardless. And that WOULD make EOY points' maintenance fees considerably higher than annual points' maintenance fees. (again, especially for the lower points' packages)

I have one EOY resale contract included with my qualified points maintenance fee bill. It was charged the $310 fee and $310 was not charged on any other contract. I assume that the $310 will be applied to that contract again this fall (or whatever the amount increases to this year) and so it IS a higher price you pay for having EOY points because this base price is NOT cut in two--half one year and half the next year. Now, that is an assumption on my part based on how I was billed in 2008 for 2009.

Now, if you also have annual points that becomes a moot point, but if you only have one EOY points package and it is in Trust Fund E, if my hypothesis is indeed fact, then it is not moot.

Susan

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

have you ever calculated the breakeven # of points, where its cheaper to own then rent @ 8 cents a point.

There was a thread either here or on Yahoo Bluegreen that discussed this and basically the bottom line was it all depends on whether or not you include the amount you pay for your "initial" purchase or not. And if you do, then part of it becomes how long you hold your ownership.

Also, how many times you are hit with a special assessment like we were in 2007 and how much maintenance fees continue to rise. I'm finding it isn't easy in this market to call a spade a spade and get X # of cents per point. It's much easier to look at the # of points and look at the season and go between 5 and 10 cents per point and see what you come up with and what sounds reasonable for the size of the unit, time of the year, days of the week and number of people (couples) using it.

So, it's not an easy thing to calculate a break even on................for me, it's just this: I want to be able to use my points to retire on some day...........I hope my CMV UDIs can eventually pay all my maintenance fees and that I can vacation in the winter months in the warmer climates with my BG Vacation Club points and maybe I will have to do a few RCI weeks (points or weeks) too.................but with the economy the way it is going....who knows....but retirement isn't down the road for awhile yet anyway and maybe even longer now!

Susan

(Sorry about three posts in a row, but since they were so different, I didn't want to put them all in one post.)

[cjnix33 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close cjnix33]

Ok, so how do I know what fund my points are in, whether it is trust fund, etc. I didn't realize there was anything different about points, other than the amount you had. Boy do I have a lot to learn!

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

Ok, so how do I know what fund my points are in, whether it is trust fund, etc. I didn't realize there was anything different about points, other than the amount you had. Boy do I have a lot to learn!

It all depends on when they were originally purchased. Did you buy your points resale or from the developer? If resale, did you buy them from Pinnacle or from some place else on the resale market? If you bought them from the developer, when did you buy them?

These answers will help to determine which trust fund they are in. Also, I believe the form Owner Beneficiary Rights on a resale tells you when the points were originally purchased. Now, I can't remember the exact date it is but Trust Fund E......started, back in 2003, I think.............someone else will remember exactly....I used to know these dates and was going to do a timeline at one time, but that got lost in the shuffle of the to do list!

[vintner Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close vintner]

Boy do I have a lot to learn!

Its okay. I have been a Bluegreen owner since 2002, and I am still learning things here.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Boca has been recently mentioning that with Trust Fund E EOY Points, your maintenance fees with EOY points are considerably higher than the equivalent number of annual points.
Susan

This is a FALSE statement. I did NOT say what you said I did. I think you are misinterpreting what I've said in other posts. To my knowledge, I never said "that EOY points are considerably higher than the equivalent number of annual points." I think you added the part in red. In fact, I have said that they are identical from a maintenance fee calcuation point of view.

I did say and I have said on this thread now multiple times that I wish Bluegreen would stop selling small every other year packages because how much a person pays every year is way to high for how many points they get effectively on an annual basis. Bi-annual points owners pay maintenance fees every year. That has NOTHING to do with annual points.

8000 bi-annual points = 4000 annual points except for the details I have provided in this thread.

I hope this clarifies this issue.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I wish Bluegreen would stop selling every other year points mostly because owners who have 10000 every other year points or less are paying way too much for maintenance fees every year. But, I doubt they will.

However, even if Bluegreen stops selling every other year packages, there are plenty on the resale market to satisfy any future demand for it.

I did indeed post this message. What confuses me is how anyone can interpret it as me saying that every other year points owners pay more than the equivalent annual points package. I don't even mention annual points in this quote.

Let me try one more time to help clarify this issue:

10000 bi-annual points in Trust Fund E pay EXACTLY the same maintenance fee and taxes as 5000 annual points owners who own points in Trust Fund E.

10000 bi-annual = 5000 annual points. The 2009 maintenance fees and taxes for such a package is $495.50 every year.

In addition, when you add the $129 annual dues. Such an owner pays $624.50 for what amounts to 5000 points every year or $.1249/point. My quotes says that I wish Bluegreen would stop selling this package because owners who own it pay way too much in maintenance fees and taxes for what they get.

[crwisconsin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close crwisconsin]

I was going by what you said in the Yahoo group from a post you made on 1/28 that indicated that EOY points owners pay much MORE in maintenance fees than annual points owners do or at least that's how I (and apparently Charles also) interpreted it.

Susan,

What I said was that I had heard someone, somewhere make the claim you did in this thread but I did not say who since I do not remember. I do know that if it were Jim, I would have contacted him personally to have him explain it to me because, as I said, I could not understand how it would make a difference.

Charles