Big Increase in Resort Title Transfer fees.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

All Bluegreen Points transfers need to go through Resort Title. The resort transfer fee used to be $125 plus an amount on top of that for closing and escrow. This has always been below the industry transfer rate for a full transfer of ownership. Now, it will cost $475 minimum to transfer points from one owner to another. It will be $250 if you transfer your points to a family member. If you make a Pinnacle Vacations purchase, the closing costs are now $600 up from $520.

This will have a couple of practical implications.

1) Flipping Bluegreen Points will become economically challenging. Having to pay 2 transfer fees of $475 will kill that idea. This is good for brokers who simply transfer points between owners and collect a commission. This impacts the PCCs the most. Perhaps this isn't a bad idea.

2) Small packages will become very difficult to sell. An 8000 bi-annual package would be lucky to get $500. Now, it will be as much for the transfer fee as it is for the points.

3) eBay resellers who charge a fee on top of the Resort Title transfer fee will now need to increase their fees. That means many will go up to around $700-800 for closing.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Does the added cost mean added efficiency!

You get what you pay for- right!

I'm sure this means that six month processing times and poor communication are a thing of the past.......

[BWD6 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BWD6]

Do you know when this takes effect? Is this for new closings starting today or will it affect transfers currently in progress?

I see this as just one more step to make it less attractive to purchase and sell resale.

The value of BG points has been decreasing steadily since they started enforcing the "no transfer of benefits" rule.

It is fairly routine to see BG points on ebay now sell for$.05 - $.10/point. I suspect this will decrease even further. I agree with Jim that smaller point packages will almost be worthless. You will have to give them away.

I hope owners can continue to pay there maintenance fees because they have effectively dried up the resale market.

Having said all of this, I can understand why they are doing this. All of there steps over the past couple years have been designed to discourage resale purchases. This is just the next step.

For veteran timeshare people that have experience with other systems, what is the next logical step for BG to take? Continue to increase maintenance fees at accelerated levels?

What other steps might they take?

David

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Do you know when this takes effect? Is this for new closings starting today or will it affect transfers currently in progress?

I see this as just one more step to make it less attractive to purchase and sell resale.

The value of BG points has been decreasing steadily since they started enforcing the "no transfer of benefits" rule.

It is fairly routine to see BG points on ebay now sell for$.05 - $.10/point. I suspect this will decrease even further. I agree with Jim that smaller point packages will almost be worthless. You will have to give them away.

I hope owners can continue to pay there maintenance fees because they have effectively dried up the resale market.

Having said all of this, I can understand why they are doing this. All of there steps over the past couple years have been designed to discourage resale purchases. This is just the next step.

For veteran timeshare people that have experience with other systems, what is the next logical step for BG to take? Continue to increase maintenance fees at accelerated levels?

What other steps might they take?

David

Actually, I think what they want you to do is make purchases from their authorized reseller. The rates for points from Pinnacle had been pretty consistent over the past several years. It's only been the last 2-3 months that prices have come down there. And, it hasn't been really that much when compared to other systems and eBay.

I am actually not sure how Bluegreen handles inventories for defaulted ownerships. I had always thought they just put it back into inventory for sale at the resorts. I'm not sure how they handle it anymore since the resorts have more inventory than they can sell.

Theoretically, it wouldn't be that hard to offer these defaulted packages back out to resale buyers so that maintenance fees can continue to be paid. However, it really all depends on how they handle it. I'm sure if defaults became a problem, Bluegreen would take some type of action to correct it.

[Keep Traveling Member Find all posts View Profile Close Keep Traveling]

Looks like I will be out a couple hundred dollars. Should I contact the closing company to check on ?

KT - Heith

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Looks like I will be out a couple hundred dollars. Should I contact the closing company to check on ?

KT - Heith

As long as your transfer was in progress as of Feb 1, you should be okay. If you bought off of eBay from a reseller who gave you a fixed closing cost, you should also be okay unless they specify that you owe a certain amount.

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

The value of BG points has been decreasing steadily since they started enforcing the "no transfer of benefits" rule.

I disagree with this. Points are points, their value has not been toyed with in the least. What used to cost you 10000 points still costs you 10000 points.

How you get those points may have changed, however, but that has little to do with the points, but more to do with how badly you want the side bennies.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Jim,

If you have time- would you start a thread in the "Transferring Ownership" forum explaining the process and costs now involved in a Bluegreen transaction. I was going to, but I believe you handle more of these than I do and are closer to those involved.

Thanks,

Rich

[santoape Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close santoape]

Just another way for bluegreen to make money because of the economic hard times, just go ahead and screw the consumer..

[BoardGirl Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BoardGirl]

I don't think so, I think it's to cut down on, pardon the phrase, "frivilous transfers". Should certainly make transfers a lot faster if the tiny rollovers are out of it.

If it was really about dollars and cents, they'd up the cost of other things or add fees where there are none.

But I also don't know if they have subcontracted new work out, or what they were already doing became more expensive.

regardless, I'm pretty sure this isn't "screw the consumer" stuff. But I have no facts, just gut feel.

[swirg53 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close swirg53]

So far, no matter what, I think Bluegreen is a good company and does look out for the owners. However, they are in the business to make money too! There has been many changes since I have been an owner; some that have made ownership more attractive and some that have made ownership a bit more difficult. I liked this last post suggesting that Bluegreen is just trying to do something to make Resort Title's processing less labor intensive.

By making small packages much more difficult to sell, they could be giving a boost to developer sales. You need more points, that's why you are unhappy with your points and you have now seen that you can't resell such a small package." yadda yadda yadda

I have somewhat disagreed with Boca up to now about buying several resale packages in regards to having to pay closing costs over and over. I take closing costs into mind when I have bought resale points when I calculate my price per point. $125 for closing costs has not incrementally changed the price per point very much of even a small package. (Of course, the effect on the price per point is less and less, as the # of points in the package increases.) But now with the costs increased nearly four times, it will indeed be quite costly to buy smaller packages when for the same fee you could buy one large package of points. But it's all relative to how much you pay for the points.

I figured just about any package, on the resale market, since we already own platinum benefits--I could buy for $875 and be pleased with the price per point including paying the $125 in closing/transfer costs. That's $1,000 I am paying........so now with this same philosophy, I would only be able to offer an owner $500 at most and if that. And as Boca said, the idea of flipping will be much more challenging now. (Although, I love my points so very much, I can't even dream of selling off something I bought for really cheap so that is a moot point to me...............but maybe someday!) [I rarely buy through an outside closer and rarely reimburse for maintenance fees, even if there are current points available.]

The real loser in this will be the seller....they are going to get less for their points than ever before. But if they paid developer prices, the difference between what they could get before this ruling and what they can get now, is pretty minimal versus the price they paid for their points and what they can sell them for on the secondary resale market.

This should indeed make Pinnacle's business more attractive to sellers than ever before.

[BWD6 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BWD6]

I am not sure what you mean when you say "side bennies". This really has nothing to do with transferring ownership.

For example, before they enforced the "no transfer of bennies rule a year ago, an individual could sell points for $.35-$.55/per point. After enforcing the rule, you can still purchase points for that cost and purchase through Jim to get the benefits but roughly $2000 of that purchase price (regardless of the package size) is paying for the benefits and the seller does not see that money.

I believe you will see this same adjustment happen now with ebay sales and the new transfer fees. It will be quite normal to see points selling for less than $.05/point because smart buyers figure in total closing costs when purchasing resale points on ebay, not just the cost per point.

In January, I purchased 12k points on ebay for $677 with reimbursement of maintenance fees, closing costs and Resort title transfer fees for approximately $1700 total. Now, when I am looking at ebay auctions, I figure in the higher transfer costs, I will set my target at a lower cost per point to match what I want to pay for the total package.

Ultimately, the person selling the points will get less money but the cost to sell the points increases. In this situation I am not even talking about trying to get "premier benefits" but just resale points.

It will be interesting to watch.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I am not sure what you mean when you say "side bennies". This really has nothing to do with transferring ownership.

For example, before they enforced the "no transfer of bennies rule a year ago, an individual could sell points for $.35-$.55/per point. After enforcing the rule, you can still purchase points for that cost and purchase through Jim to get the benefits but roughly $2000 of that purchase price (regardless of the package size) is paying for the benefits and the seller does not see that money.

I believe you will see this same adjustment happen now with ebay sales and the new transfer fees. It will be quite normal to see points selling for less than $.05/point because smart buyers figure in total closing costs when purchasing resale points on ebay, not just the cost per point.

In January, I purchased 12k points on ebay for $677 with reimbursement of maintenance fees, closing costs and Resort title transfer fees for approximately $1700 total. Now, when I am looking at ebay auctions, I figure in the higher transfer costs, I will set my target at a lower cost per point to match what I want to pay for the total package.

Ultimately, the person selling the points will get less money but the cost to sell the points increases. In this situation I am not even talking about trying to get "premier benefits" but just resale points.

It will be interesting to watch.

I agree with your conclusions. The only thing that can change this situation is if Bluegreen starts buying back points to stablize prices. But, this can only happen when they burn off their current inventory. Once they do, they should start buying it up because the prices they can get are lower than developing new resorts.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

I agree with David.. This looks like a win for the developer in the short term- but could have continuing implications of an overall decline in the real value of the product over the long term.

Resale values for this brand have been fairly consistent for some time, which in turn make it easier for a developer to generate sales to an "educated" and "credit worthy" consumer.

With the credit issues many developers are facing and with Bluegreen's previously stated intention of reducing sales totals by becoming more selective on lending and credit practices, and their focus on intending to monetize their current owner base (this will require more usage and incidental spending within the system)- a consistent resale value will become more and more critical to a developer's business model.

It will be very interesting over the next two years to see how developers begin to digest and cope with this new reality. In the long run- this economic challenge will hopefully result in a more stable and sustainable industry.

That being said- this is gonna be one giant horsepill of change for the developers to swallow and I don't think it will go down easily!