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  • Made a mistake by buying BG and desperate

    Hope someone out there can help me !! 3 1/2 years ago me and my husband attended the pitch in Shenandoah Valley. We purchased 15,000 points a year and the deed is out of Fountains II in Orlando. Well, we pay the bill each month and the assortment of other fees that were not hidden, just not fully disclosed during the pitch. In the 3 1/2 years we have taken 1 vacation. I've tried 3 other times over the course of 2 years to book vacations and have received similar responses. Nothing open. The absolute worse came last year when I called for a week in Hershey, PA so we could go to Gettysburg. I called the first week of January for a vacation the week of Memorial Day. I was told nothing was available, not even the weekend. Two days after I was denied a friend asked me about BG since she had just received her confirmation for the free weekend in Hershey. The same weekend I wanted to book and was told no. I was furious. I'm paying and can't get a room and she has one for free. I have never been so sorry that I attended the sales pitch. Now we have 30,000 points in our account of which 15,000 will expire 31-May-10. I tried to book a week in Hershey (again) for July, 2010 and was told I don't have enough points since its a 'High Red' week (now, saved points from 2009 can't be used for vacation in 2010). In order to guarantee the reservation, I will have to send BG a check for the next year's (2010) maintenence fees. We made a mistake. A big one. We know it and regret it. Nearly all items of importance to us that we asked the sales person had such a 'twist' that its real close to a lie. I don't know how to get out of this contract with BG. We are not going to use the points from last year so we will lose them next May. I was so upset after talking with BG yesterday that I booked a week at the Hilton Garden Inn in Hershey so I am going to get my vacation. I didn't realize when we 'signed' that we were competing with 'free vacations' and hidden contract agreements. The percent of giveaways at the resorts at any given time is close to 75%. I know we weren't told that. I'm tired of being denied. Can anyone help us?

  • #2
    It's not always someone elses fault

    Calling in January for May is way too late. While I'm not familiar with the rules of BG if they say you can't use carry over points to get a prime time reservation then that is a system limitation (that I wouldn't buy into if its stated as such - no points based system I am aware of has that limitation EXCEPT for early reservation privileges) that all owners should be aware of by simply reading the rules. It largely comes down to knowing what you are buying before you lay out your money. Now it's too late so learn how to use it to your best value according to the rules. That is the best advice you can get.

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    • #3
      Maggie,

      You have come to the right place for help. We can definitely provide guidance to you that will help you get the vacations you want.

      First of all, if you want holiday weekends like you have requested, you need to book them further in advance like John recommeneded.

      Secondly, any free weekends that are given away are usually either local hotels or developer inventory of unsold units. Your friends aren't getting into the resort on owner inventory if there isn't anything available for owner usage.

      The third problem you have is a June 1 anniversary date. That is not a good one for summer vacations. To book a summer vacation, you need to try the following:

      You are bronze owner, so you can get on the waitlist at 12 months prior to check in. Let's say you want July 4th week at the Suites at Hershey in 2011. You want july 2 checkin for 7 nights.

      What you will need to do is call up on July 2, 2010 to get on the waitlist. If it is available, which is a very good chance, then you will need to have your 2011 points in your account on Aug 2, 2010 in order for that reservation to be bookable. So, just prepay your 2011 maintenance fees before the end of July. When August 2 comes around, you are very likely to get July 4th week at the Suites at Hershey. The only people who will beat you out for that week are Silver, Gold and Platinum owners who get on the waitlist before you do. Highly doubtful that all the available units will be taken up by these Premier owners.

      For the rest of your current points, you will need to consider travel during less peak times or even shoulder season. You won't have trouble vacationing at those times.

      Also, don't forget to try to use bonus time. It's cheap and it's a great way to supplement your vacationing especially on weekends.

      Tells us other places you would like to go and we will show you how best to get them.

      Jim
      My Rental Site
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      • #4
        Oh, not sure where you got 75% giveaways at resort. If you mean to suggest that 75% of the units at the resorts are occupied by giveaways, that is simply not true.

        Here are last year's statistics for Club usage:

        Utilization stats. This was provided last year at the annual meeting.
        - 65% Club Points; 717k use nights
        - 8.4% Bonus Time; 92k use nights
        - 0.2% Exchange through RCI or II
        - 7.3% for Sampler packages (only can book off season nights)
        - <1% for rentals at Bluegreen Rentals.com for delinquent owners
        - 1.6% for employee use (3 days prior to check in)
        - 5% for resort use and upkeep.

        The rest are vacant nights.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by timeos2
          Calling in January for May is way too late. While I'm not familiar with the rules of BG if they say you can't use carry over points to get a prime time reservation then that is a system limitation (that I wouldn't buy into if its stated as such - no points based system I am aware of has that limitation EXCEPT for early reservation privileges) that all owners should be aware of by simply reading the rules. It largely comes down to knowing what you are buying before you lay out your money. Now it's too late so learn how to use it to your best value according to the rules. That is the best advice you can get.
          Your statement is false. In Wyndham, which you own, if you enter your use year expecting to use your points and don't use your points in that use year, they expire 100%, there is no carry over. Not being able to use points after your use year is the ultimate in limitations placed on usage.

          In Bluegreen, there are no reservation fees and there are no housekeeping fees. In fact, you can book any number of nights for partial week stays (minimum 2 nights) at 11 months prior to check in. In addition, if you borrow ahead, you get 2 full years to book any reservation at any resort.

          Bluegreen instituted the saved points rule to ensure that there was enough availability for holiday and peak season weeks to accommodate owner demand. All owners get at least once chance at a holiday week. If they book a holiday week one year, cancel it and then book another holiday week the next year, this is the behavior that Bluegreen didn't want. As a result, it is much easier to get into a Bluegreen resort for a holiday week than many other systems.

          The limitation is only on high red season. Red, White and Blue season is fine.
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          • #6
            BG sound the same except for the restrictions of use things

            Originally posted by BocaBum99 View Post
            Your statement is false. In Wyndham, which you own, if you enter your use year expecting to use your points and don't use your points in that use year, they expire 100%, there is no carry over. Not being able to use points after your use year is the ultimate in limitations placed on usage.

            In Bluegreen, there are no reservation fees and there are no housekeeping fees. In fact, you can book any number of nights for partial week stays (minimum 2 nights) at 11 months prior to check in. In addition, if you borrow ahead, you get 2 full years to book any reservation at any resort.

            Bluegreen instituted the saved points rule to ensure that there was enough availability for holiday and peak season weeks to accommodate owner demand. All owners get at least once chance at a holiday week. If they book a holiday week one year, cancel it and then book another holiday week the next year, this is the behavior that Bluegreen didn't want. As a result, it is much easier to get into a Bluegreen resort for a holiday week than many other systems.

            The limitation is only on high red season. Red, White and Blue season is fine.
            In Wyndham you can carry over 100% of your annual points for 24 months of use. They would not apply to ARP (Advance Reservation Priority) but otherwise are completely usable for a total of up to 36 months (the current year PLUS 24 additional months after) as any other FSP points would be. It is a great way to amass larger amounts of points for a big trip or a special large unit or just to extend usage for a longer time. It's called points pooling and is one of the great features of Wyndham if used regularly. We usually like to pool at least half our points every year thus always carrying forward two additional years of use as we need it. No holiday restrictions apply nor have we ever had a problem getting the use time we wanted - Holiday are the majority of our Wyndaham use. And there is a request list should you ever bump against a really tough to get specific resort/week yet we have never had to request that service.

            Only the first year of ownership do you face the need to use all your Wyndham points (and we passed that threshold in 1997) - since then with the slight bit of planning to decide if you'll need 100% of your points or not in a given year its simple to insure no leftovers. No need for other "saved points" things as they aren't needed.

            I don't claim to know how BG works but the poster obviously doesn't get it and isn't happy with how it was sold. I'd bet there are plenty of Wyndham owners who would fit that mold as well - we're NOT in that unhappy group in any way (except for the minor yet irritating and unnecessary restriction on rentals between owners which should be reversed or at least altered).

            In over 12 years I've yet to pay a housekeeping fee and the only fee I have paid is the pooling fee. That's it. We borrow, rent & pool all the time. No complaints from this owner about Wyndham fees or Points. I can only hope BG works as well, but I have no desire to find out as Wyndham has been an exceptional value for us. Pennies on the retail dollar to buy 12 years ago, low annual fees , virtually no additional fees (with a bare minimum of planning) and FAR more resorts than any other system for internal use. Some of them better than Marriott/Hilton/DVC in quality/location. How can you beat that for my few thousand in original cost and my <$1100 annual fee (only passed $1000 in the past year)? Best deal going IMO.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by timeos2
              In Wyndham you can carry over 100% of your annual points for 24 months of use. They would not apply to ARP (Advance Reservation Priority) but otherwise are completely usable for a total of up to 36 months (the current year PLUS 24 additional months after) as any other FSP points would be. It is a great way to amass larger amounts of points for a big trip or a special large unit or just to extend usage for a longer time. It's called points pooling and is one of the great features of Wyndham if used regularly. We usually like to pool at least half our points every year thus always carrying forward two additional years of use as we need it. No holiday restrictions apply nor have we ever had a problem getting the use time we wanted - Holiday are the majority of our Wyndaham use. And there is a request list should you ever bump against a really tough to get specific resort/week yet we have never had to request that service.

              Only the first year of ownership do you face the need to use all your Wyndham points (and we passed that threshold in 1997) - since then with the slight bit of planning to decide if you'll need 100% of your points or not in a given year its simple to insure no leftovers. No need for other "saved points" things as they aren't needed.

              I don't claim to know how BG works but the poster obviously doesn't get it and isn't happy with how it was sold. I'd bet there are plenty of Wyndham owners who would fit that mold as well - we're NOT in that unhappy group in any way (except for the minor yet irritating and unnecessary restriction on rentals between owners which should be reversed or at least altered).

              In over 12 years I've yet to pay a housekeeping fee and the only fee I have paid is the pooling fee. That's it. We borrow, rent & pool all the time. No complaints from this owner about Wyndham fees or Points. I can only hope BG works as well, but I have no desire to find out as Wyndham has been an exceptional value for us. Pennies on the retail dollar to buy 12 years ago, low annual fees , virtually no additional fees (with a bare minimum of planning) and FAR more resorts than any other system for internal use. Some of them better than Marriott/Hilton/DVC in quality/location. How can you beat that for my few thousand in original cost and my <$1100 annual fee (only passed $1000 in the past year)? Best deal going IMO.
              The OP just needs some help in using her package. What she wants to do can be done. She just needs to be educated on how to do it. That is what we will do.

              In addition, I love Wyndham Resorts. I own over 3M points. But, if you book less than 1 week trips, you must pay extra housekeeping fees. In Bluegreen, the average stay is 3.7 days. If it were Wyndham, all owners would be paying an extra housekeeping fee and an extra transaction fee. If you can't book partial week stays without extra fees, that defeats one of the main purposes of owning a point system. This is a problem for me because I stay at Waikiki Beachwalk 5-6 times per year for 2-3 nights at a time.

              In addition, if you borrow points ahead in Wyndham, they expire in the current use year. They cannot be saved to the next year. If you want to get extra life from points by putting them into the points pool, you have to pay a fee to do that. Then, as soon as you use them once, you cannot save them until the next year. So, the so called limitation of not being able to use saved points for high red season is more severe in Wyndham. As soon as you use points to book a reservation, they cannot be saved until the next year.

              Also in Bluegreen, you always get access to bonus time at your home resort. In Wyndham, you only get discount point stays if you buy directly from Wyndham at $.125/point or higher.

              Most irritating of all is having to pay $99 to add a guest to a reservation. My sister is coming to Hawaii next. I am flying to the Big Island just to check them in. It's cheaper for me to fly there than to pay the guest fee. How stupid is that?

              To say Wyndham resorts are great is telling the truth. To say that the fees are avoidable if you just use your ownership like a fixed week is, well, disingenuous. The fees are stifling and severely limits the utility of the ownership.
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              • #8
                It's basically a good, available inventory that sells us on a system

                Originally posted by BocaBum99 View Post
                The OP just needs some help in using her package. What she wants to do can be done. She just needs to be educated on how to do it. That is what we will do.

                In addition, I love Wyndham Resorts. I own over 3M points. But, if you book less than 1 week trips, you must pay extra housekeeping fees. In Bluegreen, the average stay is 3.7 days. If it were Wyndham, all owners would be paying an extra housekeeping fee and an extra transaction fee. If you can't book partial week stays without extra fees, that defeats one of the main purposes of owning a point system. This is a problem for me because I stay at Waikiki Beachwalk 5-6 times per year for 2-3 nights at a time.

                In addition, if you borrow points ahead in Wyndham, they expire in the current use year. They cannot be saved to the next year. If you want to get extra life from points by putting them into the points pool, you have to pay a fee to do that. Then, as soon as you use them once, you cannot save them until the next year. So, the so called limitation of not being able to use saved points for high red season is more severe in Wyndham. As soon as you use points to book a reservation, they cannot be saved until the next year.

                Also in Bluegreen, you always get access to bonus time at your home resort. In Wyndham, you only get discount point stays if you buy directly from Wyndham at $.125/point or higher.

                Most irritating of all is having to pay $99 to add a guest to a reservation. My sister is coming to Hawaii next. I am flying to the Big Island just to check them in. It's cheaper for me to fly there than to pay the guest fee. How stupid is that?

                To say Wyndham resorts are great is telling the truth. To say that the fees are avoidable if you just use your ownership like a fixed week is, well, disingenuous. The fees are stifling and severely limits the utility of the ownership.
                I was all hot to use the 3-7 day use when we joined Wyndham (and THE Club from DRI as well - not so much RCI Points as we had learned by then) but quickly found the problem wasn't that 7 days was too long in one place as we had feared but that 3-6 days wasn't long enough to make the travel expense worth it. We have tacked on additional days to get to 10-14 day stays but have never booked a 3-6 day stay on its own. Just hasn't been what we wanted to do, so whatever hassles or costs it may carry doesn't matter to our use. We do like the ability to stretch time to beyond 7 days and that we do use. The cost seems insignificant compared to the the options (renting otels or trying to shoehorn weeks into a usable trip).

                The advantage to points systems for us is the guaranteed availability of annal inventory and the large number of internal resorts the big boys offer. It comes closest to the ability of a call & reservation hotel type system vs the place and hope of weeks based exchanges. I suppose if we needed 3-6 day stays the Wyndham model might not work as well for us but its moot now and we don't need to look elsewhere.

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                • #9
                  For many Wyndham folks, the housekeeping fees are not likely to be much of an issue---they are fixed to blue-time/old-resort point levels. Newer resorts or prime time require higher points to book, but the the same housekeeping credits as any other unit of that size anywhere in the system.

                  For example, a 2BR at Wyndham Bonnet Creek is 224K points in season, but only 77 credits to clean. Because you are awarded one credit/K, you can do a lot of short in-season stays before it becomes an issue. A three night stay, with one weekend and two weekday nights, is "housekeeping positive"---the stay costs 98.5K points, but only 77 housekeeping credits.

                  Transaction fees are also fixed to old-resort point levels, but they are easier to run into without doing a little planning, because you can place multiple bookings in a single day using only one "transaction". Even so, the system purchased resale is so inexpensive overall that a few extra fees here and there aren't really all that mateiral to the total, bottom-line/per-night cost. I generally just ignore them, and have never paid more than one or two per year.

                  The Wyndham fee that can really kill you is the guest certificate fee---a resale-only owner gets only one per year free, and paying for others is steep ($100).

                  Every system has its quirks---Bluegreen's saved points limitation vs. Wyndham's odd rules for point pooling, etc. Either would be excellent as long as the system you want to own has resorts at which you want to stay.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by bnoble View Post
                    For many Wyndham folks, the housekeeping fees are not likely to be much of an issue---they are fixed to blue-time/old-resort point levels. Newer resorts or prime time require higher points to book, but the the same housekeeping credits as any other unit of that size anywhere in the system.

                    For example, a 2BR at Wyndham Bonnet Creek is 224K points in season, but only 77 credits to clean. Because you are awarded one credit/K, you can do a lot of short in-season stays before it becomes an issue. A three night stay, with one weekend and two weekday nights, is "housekeeping positive"---the stay costs 98.5K points, but only 77 housekeeping credits.

                    Transaction fees are also fixed to old-resort point levels, but they are easier to run into without doing a little planning, because you can place multiple bookings in a single day using only one "transaction". Even so, the system purchased resale is so inexpensive overall that a few extra fees here and there aren't really all that mateiral to the total, bottom-line/per-night cost. I generally just ignore them, and have never paid more than one or two per year.

                    The Wyndham fee that can really kill you is the guest certificate fee---a resale-only owner gets only one per year free, and paying for others is steep ($100).

                    Every system has its quirks---Bluegreen's saved points limitation vs. Wyndham's odd rules for point pooling, etc. Either would be excellent as long as the system you want to own has resorts at which you want to stay.
                    I agree with what you say. All systems have their quirks that can be devastating if you don't know how to work around them. The OP's problem is a common one.

                    If you travel in the summer time, June 1 is the worst time to have an anniversary date. That's because if you don't know about borrowing points, you will never get a summer vacation.
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                    • #11
                      I don't really understand bluegreen all that well yet, but---is it "borrowing" or "pre-paying"? You aren't borrowing points into the use-year the reservation is *booked*, are you? If you cancel, do the points stay in the use-year in which the stay commences, or do they revert to the use-year in which the reserevation was made?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bnoble
                        If you cancel, do the points stay in the use-year in which the stay commences, or do they revert to the use-year in which the reserevation was made?
                        If you pay the next year's MF ahead of time, you have access to all your next year's points whether you make use of them or not. I believe that once you "catch up" to when you normally would have paid them, they act just as they would have if you'd paid at the usual time. They turn over to only-red-or-lower at the end of the the normal year and expire the year after. The only change is that you get to use them earlier.

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                        • #13
                          So, prepaying them effectively changes their "start date", but nothing else? Neat.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bnoble
                            I don't really understand bluegreen all that well yet, but---is it "borrowing" or "pre-paying"? You aren't borrowing points into the use-year the reservation is *booked*, are you? If you cancel, do the points stay in the use-year in which the stay commences, or do they revert to the use-year in which the reserevation was made?
                            Hobbit has it correct. When you borrow ahead, the original earn date of the points remains the same. If you book them or cancel them, that original earn date and expiration dates don't change. They expire or turn into saved points the same time they would have anyway. So, the trick in Bluegreen is always to borrow your points as soon as you pay your maintenance fees. In that way, you get about 3 years to use them, the last year of which they are saved points.

                            For example, let's say you have an Oct 1 anniversary date. You pay your maintenance fees for 2010 on Nov 1, 2009. At that moment, you can borrow your 2010 points normally granted on Oct 1, 2010. If you book all of those points and then cancel them, they will turn into saved points on Oct 1, 2011 and will expire on Oct 1, 2012. About 3 years usage.
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                            • #15
                              Thank you bunches for your tips. I do understand the 'deal' that BG has and we enjoyed the much needed break that we had. At no time during the call yesteday to BG were we ever offered a 'wait list'. Three times I was told that if I wanted the reservation, I needed to forward payment 11 months in advance and none of the 30,000 points in our account would be used. That is well beyond reasonable. Our concern is the management of this company. We made a mistake. We know it. We regret it and unfortunately continue to pay for it each month. We are responsible fully for putting our signature on the contract. Its not the money that is our issue. Two seemingly intelligent people walked away in Shenandoah with a completely different understanding of the BG program than what is in the contract. I don't see that as a coincidence. Our biggest problem is the rate of denial. Its not the first, second or third time now. It has been consistent and request was only for 1 holiday weekend. Each request varied from 5months in advance to 12 months in advance. Example: We called in June, 2006 for a week rental the 2nd week of March, 2007 in Miami. Not high-red season but we were denied nonetheless. 10 months in advance denied. We ended up with the 2nd week in February, 2007. Just after the call, I booked air travel. Three weeks later the hard-copy reservation came and we were not reserved in Miami. The reservation was for Marathon. We contacted the Customer Service immediately and nothing could be done. The resort was booked in full and we already had paid for the airline tickets. Of course, the cancellation fee would be waived but since we already paid for the airfare, that was not an option. Pretty much, that was our WELCOME to BG. It was at the Marathon resort that we learned first-hand how many folks at the resort were not owners. I don't know where the percentages came from in one of the responses but it is way off. Maybe at the Wyndam Resort but I didn't buy into the Wyndam or at least if I did, I don't know it. Not that I would be surprised at this point. One of the biggest selling points during our 'pitch' was the flexibility of the program. The flexibility is only there if you have the luxury of booking 11 months in advance for each vacation and accepting a different resort than your first choice. But then we learned our lesson with the reservation to Florida. Again, I was more upset over the weekend in Hershey. And yes, my friend, who is also my neighbor, stayed at the resort. Not an off-site facility. The same resort that as an owner, I was denied a reservation, same weekend. The same way when we visited Shennandoah, we stayed in a cabin which is exclusive for the owners (and we weren't). We were told by the salesperson in Marathon, not a visitor, what the 'giveaway' rate is and how he spends a considerable amount of time on the phone putting out fires from upset owners who could not get reservations. Out of the other side of his mouth he was trying to sell us an additional 5,000 points to upgrade our status. Then he began talking about the 2 for 25 that actually buy into the program and which plans are the most popular. We walked out at that point.

                              What I need help/advice with is the points that are going to be lost. We want nothing more to do with this company. I shouldn't have to take a tranquilizer just to call for a reservation but that's where I'm at. Just the thought of dealing with the Customer Service department makes me sick over what should be a pleasant time. Life is too short.

                              Can I give the points to someone so they can book a vacation? We've paid for them and they are not going to be used (30,000 total). Can we book a vacation and then donate it for charity or some other use like that? Can my husband give a reservation to a co-worker?

                              I realize from the responses posted that the only way we can really benefit from this program is walk away from it. It sounded too good to be true.

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