Help for the new guy

[Matt702 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Matt702]

Hello all.... I am new around here as well as to timeshare ownership as well. My wife and I have been considering buying a timeshare at some point. I hadn't really done a whole lot of research, however, a couple weeks ago we attended a presentation at one of Diamonds resorts in South Lake Tahoe and yes.... we signed on the dotted line! The next day we had remorse, I researched and found this place along with TUG and promptly rescinded 2 days after signing the contract. So, after our blunder there is now no harm or foul!

My question for all of you is just to get led as to how happy and pleased you are with Diamond and especially their resorts? Are their resorts kept up well and is Diamond a great option? The points system is definitely the route we want to go because it provides flexibility. We live just outside of Vegas in Henderson so most of our trips will be out west. We are currently researching Diamond and Worldmark resorts.... so please tell me about Diamond as I have limited knowledge! Thank you guys in advance!!

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I can't tell you much about Diamond as I sold the only Diamond resort I owned and am not into points. But congrats on rescinding in time and Welcome to TS4Ms! I'm sure some more experienced DRI owners will be along shortly.

[longtimer Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close longtimer]

There are many people here with a great deal of experience with both TSs. I am a DRI owner (formerly owned by Sunterra), so I've seen alot of ups and downs with the company. We own points and are a member of the Club. Although MFs have skyrocketed over the past five or so years, overall, we are quite happy with our TS. The points system gives us the flexibility to travel to many different places at any time of the year. We can get anywhere from one to four bedrooms (depending upon the availability) and often take friends with us. If you can take a vacation at any time of the year, you can stretch your points by traveling off-season or taking advantage of 50 percent off specials (or more, sometimes) by making researvations closer to the time you want to travel (just be aware that in some places, you need to make your reservation one year ahead - and even that's not a guarantee there will be availability). Buy RESALE - You'll pay considerably more for your points if you buy them from DRI. It will cost you about $3000 (last quoted price) to bring the points into the club, but still much less than retail. It appears DRI is trying to improve their properties. I have seen alot of ongoing construction at Powhattan in Williamsburg, where we normally go at least once a year. I have heard similar improvements are being made at other places. Take your time in making a purchase. Read as much as you can about specific properties you are interested in and post questions about availability or anything else you need to know. Most of all - WELCOME! Maybe one day you'll join us as a happy TS owner.

[Bill4728 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Bill4728]

The key with DRI as far as I'm concerned is to buy pts in the US collection resale! Granted you will not get access to the full "club" inventory but you will get point access to the 19 resorts in the US collection.

Worldmark (WM) is a different story, since all owners at WM are treated pretty much the same, it is a no brainer to buy WM resale. Almost everyone I know who owns WM is happy with their ownership. And those who save 60-70% by buying it resale are even happier.

[kexueli Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kexueli]

Reasons To Buy, Reasons Not To Buy

I tend to ramble on, but I hope you find the following helpful.

If you enjoy going to Sedona (not a bad drive from Las Vegas), DRI may be worth considering. Hotel rooms are expensive there, and so you get a good value with timeshare. There is usually good availability for Sedona, and it seems like they are always building additional units there. Scottsdale and Santa Fe also seem to have decent availability. The Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort is nice, but it can be difficult to get rooms during peak seasons. It seems to me that the other western resorts have spotty availability as well.

As far as buying resale with DRI is concerned, that is probably the way to go. I can't imagine paying what DRI is asking for the points today. I bought in 2005 (with Sunterra) and paid much less than what they ask for the points today. And of course, I was ignorant of the resale market for timeshare. There are so many people that cannot afford the maintenance fees that you could probably find someone willing to give you the points for free if you will pay the transfer fees. If it were me, I would probably pay the $3000 or whatever to bring the resale points into the club. I would say that I take about a quarter of my vacations outside the US Collection. Also, Club Select has some great deals for full-week vacations, although I have not had the opportunity to take advantage of that yet. However, by bringing your points into the club you will also pay about $215 per year club fee (I'm not sure of the exact amount, as I haven't received an invoice yet).

If this is helpful...I have tracked all of my timeshare usage since I purchased, and compared to the retail cost of "similar accommodations". Since 2005 I have paid $8926.50 in maintenance fees, II exchange fees etc., and have would have paid $24675 for "similar accommodations". So, not counting my initial purchase price of about $36,000, I am $15748 ahead. Hopefully in the next 10 years I will be at a break-even point. I will admit that if I did not have the timeshare I would probably not be staying in "similar accommodations". Before buying the timeshare I would usually stay in a Super 8, or some other cheap place, so I don't know if I am really saving any money. But I am staying in much nicer rooms! I frequently stay at the Sedona Summit Resort, which is a good value. Las Vegas, for example, is a usually a horrible value. The point cost is high, and "similar accommodations" are cheap. I also take many last minute trips, take mid-week trips, avoid peak season, and I've only had to make one cancellation. I wish I had been tracking how many nights I stayed for each trip, but I will guess that I probably average $75/night in maintenance fees (if I've used about 120 timeshare nights).

I also live out west (Arizona), and here are the places I or friends/family have used my timeshare since 2005 (with 15,000 points per year), and # trips taken. Probably an average stay of 3 nights for nearby places and 6 nights for distant. This should give you an idea of what you might do with your points if you purchase with DRI. Sunriver Oregon (3), Sedona (13), Hawaii (2), Las Vegas (5), Lake Tahoe (2), Scottsdale (5), Gatlinburg (1), San Diego (1), Avila Beach California (1), Palm Springs (1).

As far as quality goes, I have had no complaints. Rooms are clean, comfortable, and generally quite spacious. But I will admit my standards are probably a bit lower than others on this forum. I'm from a middle-class background, and Best Western was the fanciest place I ever stayed while I was young. Some on the forum complain about how horrible the quality was with Sunterra, but even before DRI took over I never had any complaints. Others on the forum have complained that DRI is not as nice as Marriott. I have never stayed at a Marriott timeshare, so I cannot compare.

I cannot say for all timeshares, but I would avoid DRI if:

1. You are restricted to school holidays for vacations.
It will be difficult to find availability, and you will pay the most points for your vacations.

2. You will be doing a lot of weekend getaways.
With DRI, booking Fri & Sat night (2 nights) is 60% of the point cost for an entire week. On the other hand, if you stay Sun-Fri (5 nights), it is only 50% of the cost of an entire week.

3. You will not be able to afford maintenance fee increases.
I am going to guess that you could count on 5%-15% increases per year. Our per-point fees went up by 9.8% for 2010 and DRI described that as a "modest increase". Personally, I am very unhappy with the increases in fees, because at the time I purchased, I didn't expect that my fees would be nearly doubled after 5 years, and I am very close to the point where I can no longer afford it. It is nearly impossible to sell DRI points, and difficult to even give them away. DRI will take them back, but for instance if I were to give my points back to DRI right now I would have to pay them $250, and also pay maintenance fees for 2010, but I could not use any of the 2010 points. The other option would be to simply stop paying, and let DRI take the points back and trash my credit. I'm not looking to get rid of my points at this time, I'm just making the point that it is a big commitment. And unlike buying a vacation home, you will not likely ever get any of your investment back if you change your mind later. You have to look at it as buying a permanent membership into a "hotel discount club", rather than actually buying something tangible that you could sell later.

4. You find that you often have to cancel vacation plans.
With DRI, you must cancel before 90 days to avoid a penalty, unless you purchase a reservation protection plan (currently $105).

5. You are not flexible with your plans.
With timeshare you may not get to go to the destination you want at the time you want to go. For instance, I wanted to go to the Big Island in Hawaii during a specific week, but there was no availability. There were rooms in Kauai, so we went there instead. On a positive note, because my original choice was not available, I have discovered some wonderful places that I would not have otherwise visited.

6. You cannot afford at least 10,000 points.
If you bring the points into the Club, the fixed fees should be about $415 (club fee about $215 and operational fee $197), in addition to the per-point maintenance fee of 11.2 cents per point. So if you only have 2500 points you are paying 16.6 cents per point in fixed costs, but if you spread that out over 10,000 points then it is only about 4.2 cents per point.

[bigfrank Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close bigfrank]

I tend to ramble on, but I hope you find the following helpful.

If you enjoy going to Sedona (not a bad drive from Las Vegas), DRI may be worth considering. Hotel rooms are expensive there, and so you get a good value with timeshare. There is usually good availability for Sedona, and it seems like they are always building additional units there. Scottsdale and Santa Fe also seem to have decent availability. The Lake Tahoe Vacation Resort is nice, but it can be difficult to get rooms during peak seasons. It seems to me that the other western resorts have spotty availability as well.

As far as buying resale with DRI is concerned, that is probably the way to go. I can't imagine paying what DRI is asking for the points today. I bought in 2005 (with Sunterra) and paid much less than what they ask for the points today. And of course, I was ignorant of the resale market for timeshare. There are so many people that cannot afford the maintenance fees that you could probably find someone willing to give you the points for free if you will pay the transfer fees. If it were me, I would probably pay the $3000 or whatever to bring the resale points into the club. I would say that I take about a quarter of my vacations outside the US Collection. Also, Club Select has some great deals for full-week vacations, although I have not had the opportunity to take advantage of that yet. However, by bringing your points into the club you will also pay about $215 per year club fee (I'm not sure of the exact amount, as I haven't received an invoice yet).

If this is helpful...I have tracked all of my timeshare usage since I purchased, and compared to the retail cost of "similar accommodations". Since 2005 I have paid $8926.50 in maintenance fees, II exchange fees etc., and have would have paid $24675 for "similar accommodations". So, not counting my initial purchase price of about $36,000, I am $15748 ahead. Hopefully in the next 10 years I will be at a break-even point. I will admit that if I did not have the timeshare I would probably not be staying in "similar accommodations". Before buying the timeshare I would usually stay in a Super 8, or some other cheap place, so I don't know if I am really saving any money. But I am staying in much nicer rooms! I frequently stay at the Sedona Summit Resort, which is a good value. Las Vegas, for example, is a usually a horrible value. The point cost is high, and "similar accommodations" are cheap. I also take many last minute trips, take mid-week trips, avoid peak season, and I've only had to make one cancellation. I wish I had been tracking how many nights I stayed for each trip, but I will guess that I probably average $75/night in maintenance fees (if I've used about 120 timeshare nights).

I also live out west (Arizona), and here are the places I or friends/family have used my timeshare since 2005 (with 15,000 points per year), and # trips taken. Probably an average stay of 3 nights for nearby places and 6 nights for distant. This should give you an idea of what you might do with your points if you purchase with DRI. Sunriver Oregon (3), Sedona (13), Hawaii (2), Las Vegas (5), Lake Tahoe (2), Scottsdale (5), Gatlinburg (1), San Diego (1), Avila Beach California (1), Palm Springs (1).

As far as quality goes, I have had no complaints. Rooms are clean, comfortable, and generally quite spacious. But I will admit my standards are probably a bit lower than others on this forum. I'm from a middle-class background, and Best Western was the fanciest place I ever stayed while I was young. Some on the forum complain about how horrible the quality was with Sunterra, but even before DRI took over I never had any complaints. Others on the forum have complained that DRI is not as nice as Marriott. I have never stayed at a Marriott timeshare, so I cannot compare.

I cannot say for all timeshares, but I would avoid DRI if:

1. You are restricted to school holidays for vacations.
It will be difficult to find availability, and you will pay the most points for your vacations.

2. You will be doing a lot of weekend getaways.
With DRI, booking Fri & Sat night (2 nights) is 60% of the point cost for an entire week. On the other hand, if you stay Sun-Fri (5 nights), it is only 50% of the cost of an entire week.

3. You will not be able to afford maintenance fee increases.
I am going to guess that you could count on 5%-15% increases per year. Our per-point fees went up by 9.8% for 2010 and DRI described that as a "modest increase". Personally, I am very unhappy with the increases in fees, because at the time I purchased, I didn't expect that my fees would be nearly doubled after 5 years, and I am very close to the point where I can no longer afford it. It is nearly impossible to sell DRI points, and difficult to even give them away. DRI will take them back, but for instance if I were to give my points back to DRI right now I would have to pay them $250, and also pay maintenance fees for 2010, but I could not use any of the 2010 points. The other option would be to simply stop paying, and let DRI take the points back and trash my credit. I'm not looking to get rid of my points at this time, I'm just making the point that it is a big commitment. And unlike buying a vacation home, you will not likely ever get any of your investment back if you change your mind later. You have to look at it as buying a permanent membership into a "hotel discount club", rather than actually buying something tangible that you could sell later.

4. You find that you often have to cancel vacation plans.
With DRI, you must cancel before 90 days to avoid a penalty, unless you purchase a reservation protection plan (currently $105).

5. You are not flexible with your plans.
With timeshare you may not get to go to the destination you want at the time you want to go. For instance, I wanted to go to the Big Island in Hawaii during a specific week, but there was no availability. There were rooms in Kauai, so we went there instead. On a positive note, because my original choice was not available, I have discovered some wonderful places that I would not have otherwise visited.

6. You cannot afford at least 10,000 points.
If you bring the points into the Club, the fixed fees should be about $415 (club fee about $215 and operational fee $197), in addition to the per-point maintenance fee of 11.2 cents per point. So if you only have 2500 points you are paying 16.6 cents per point in fixed costs, but if you spread that out over 10,000 points then it is only about 4.2 cents per point.

Thank you for taking your time out of the day to help the new guy. Normally to reach posting member status you need to have 30 posts or be a site contributer or write a good review. Because this post must have been time consuming I am granting you posting member status as of tonight even though you only have 13 posts. Come back in morning to enjoy the Exchange opportunities forum which you will now be able to see.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

6. You cannot afford at least 10,000 points.
If you bring the points into the Club, the fixed fees should be about $415 (club fee about $215 and operational fee $197), in addition to the per-point maintenance fee of 11.2 cents per point. So if you only have 2500 points you are paying 16.6 cents per point in fixed costs, but if you spread that out over 10,000 points then it is only about 4.2 cents per point.

((10,000 x .112) + 215 + 197)/10,000 = 15.3¢ / point
I paid 4.2¢ as few as four years ago but it's not possible now.

[dwmantz Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dwmantz]

Spence

Is that the US Collection fees breakdown for 2010?

For 2009 I have - Club Fee - $235, Operational Fee - $180, 10.4 cents per point

For 2010 then - Club Fee - $215, Operational Fee - $197, 11.2 cents per point

Thanks!!!

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

I don't own DRUSC, just going on what was reported as 4.2¢ is not possible.

[dwmantz Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dwmantz]

Sorry

I should not have asked only you specifically Spence. For the record though, you've always had every answer in the past!


I've seen any number of reports of people receiving bills for The Club and am interested in what the fees are for this year.

Anybody, PLEASE!

Can you break down what you received for 2010 MFs for the US Collection?

[wilson22447 Member Find all posts View Profile Close wilson22447]

US Collection Operational Fee 197.00

The Club Fee 245.00

US Collection Fee Per Point 1102.00
(10,000 Points) @ 11.2 cents
per point

Total 1544.00

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

US Collection Operational Fee 197.00

The Club Fee 245.00

US Collection Fee Per Point 1102.00
(10,000 Points) @ 11.2 cents
per point

Total 1544.00

Thanks!!!

When I first joined Club Sunterra as a Founding Member ten years ago I was paying less than 2.8¢ / point annual maintenance fees.

[kexueli Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close kexueli]

I don't own DRUSC, just going on what was reported as 4.2¢ is not possible.

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. That estimate of 4.2¢/point I was referring to was only the fixed portions of the fees (operational fee + club fee) for someone with 10,000 points. It didn't include the 11.02¢ per point maintenance fees -- I think I had that mistakenly as 11.2 before. I didn't receive my invoice yet, so I had to guess at the $215 for the club fee. I was able to find the per point fee and the operational fee on the DRI website, but couldn't find the club fee. Looks like the club fee may really be $245 according to wilson22447 (thanks!).

From DRI's US Collection Letter:
"Your operational fee is $197.00 for 2010, an increase of $17.00, or 9.4%, over 2009. The per-point fee is 11.02 cents per point, an increase of 9.8% from 2009."

The point I was making was just that you will pay a lower cost per point by purchasing more points, because you will pay an Operational Fee of $197 and a Club fee of $245 (total of $442) no matter how many points you have. Then you have to pay the 11.02¢ per point on top of the $442.

2500 points = $442 + $275.50 = $717.50 = 28.7¢ per point.
5000 points = $442 + $551 = $993 = 19.9¢ per point.
10000 points = $442 + $1102 = $1544 = 15.4¢ per point.
20000 points = $442 + $2204 = $2646 = 13.2¢ per point.

I copied a link to the reservations directory. You can take a look at how many points are required to stay at different resorts. You can get a good idea of how much a room would cost you in maintenance fees. For instance, a high-season one bedroom at Villas de Santa Fe is 5,000 points per week. Someone with 2500 points would pay $1435 for that week, while someone with 10000 points would pay only $772. To compare, I looked on expedia.com and it quoted $1153 to book that same room. If you have 10,000 points, and you are able to book that room last minute (within 30 days gets 50% off), and you stay only the 5 weeknights (Sunday-Thursday pay only 10% of a weeks cost per night), then you will only pay $772*.5*.1*5 = $193 for 5 nights ($38.60 per night!). This is why DRI can be a very good deal for those with flexibility.

http://www.diamondresorts.com/pdf/Re...sDirectory.pdf

[wilson22447 Member Find all posts View Profile Close wilson22447]

In my post on DRI fees, I correctly listed $1102 as the per point fee on 10,000 points. However, I incorrectly mentioned 11.2 cents per point. I should have said 11.02 cents per point. Sorry.

[PeelBoy Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PeelBoy]

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear. That estimate of 4.2¢/point I was referring to was only the fixed portions of the fees (operational fee + club fee) for someone with 10,000 points. It didn't include the 11.02¢ per point maintenance fees -- I think I had that mistakenly as 11.2 before. I didn't receive my invoice yet, so I had to guess at the $215 for the club fee. I was able to find the per point fee and the operational fee on the DRI website, but couldn't find the club fee. Looks like the club fee may really be $245 according to wilson22447 (thanks!).

From DRI's US Collection Letter:
"Your operational fee is $197.00 for 2010, an increase of $17.00, or 9.4%, over 2009. The per-point fee is 11.02 cents per point, an increase of 9.8% from 2009."

The point I was making was just that you will pay a lower cost per point by purchasing more points, because you will pay an Operational Fee of $197 and a Club fee of $245 (total of $442) no matter how many points you have. Then you have to pay the 11.02¢ per point on top of the $442.

2500 points = $442 + $275.50 = $717.50 = 28.7¢ per point.
5000 points = $442 + $551 = $993 = 19.9¢ per point.
10000 points = $442 + $1102 = $1544 = 15.4¢ per point.
20000 points = $442 + $2204 = $2646 = 13.2¢ per point.

I copied a link to the reservations directory. You can take a look at how many points are required to stay at different resorts. You can get a good idea of how much a room would cost you in maintenance fees. For instance, a high-season one bedroom at Villas de Santa Fe is 5,000 points per week. Someone with 2500 points would pay $1435 for that week, while someone with 10000 points would pay only $772. To compare, I looked on expedia.com and it quoted $1153 to book that same room. If you have 10,000 points, and you are able to book that room last minute (within 30 days gets 50% off), and you stay only the 5 weeknights (Sunday-Thursday pay only 10% of a weeks cost per night), then you will only pay $772*.5*.1*5 = $193 for 5 nights ($38.60 per night!). This is why DRI can be a very good deal for those with flexibility.

http://www.diamondresorts.com/pdf/Re...sDirectory.pdf

Very interesting.

First, you are talking about fixed cost and variable cost concepts. In reality, we do not purchase high volume points in order to dilute the fixed cost. We purchase enough to meet our vacation needs or to supplement our TS portfolio. This cost analysis doesn't make sense to me.

Second, vacation planning is a combination of too many factors, e.g. # of holidays per year, airfare, companion ......... Average cost of accommodation per night is one of the many considerations. I did calculation before that a trip to Europe must be two weeks or longer to justify the ever increasing airfare. Experience says after driving in Europe for a week, satisfaction in the second week gets diminished quickly.

Overall, vacation is for enjoyment, not for calculation, though I am using a spread sheet to track my life to death.