$5,893.32 special assessment for Diamond's Point at Poipu

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

We own a week every other year at poipu. We agree that we need to work together. We plan on writing RICO. Agree we need media. I am going to request all maintenance records from resort. Never considered risk of. Developer owned board. Obvious conflict of interest. When dRI purchSed this resort, they had to do due dilengence and an inspection right? Where are those reports? Why won't insurance company cover? Did the maintenance staff truly do their job? Who is the insurance company?

DRI didn't purchase "the resort" they bought the management contract and the right to sell the unsold inventory. YOU and your fellow owners bought it. How much background diligence did you do before spending all that money? Like reading the obligations you accept and how the Association works? That works for all involved. I don't like developer control on Boards either so I don't buy or sold those that had that - if it was a big problem for you why did you buy there? Have you attended meetings, asked questions , ran for the Board (or just complain about it)?

All your questions have likely been answered or would be if you actually took part in the process rather than throw accusations based on other uninformed posts. It is getting old. You wanted to be hands off & let others deal with it and this is the result. Take part and help or pay up. It's beyond the point of easy answers and no costs.

[Apelila Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Apelila]

The Process

DRI didn't purchase "the resort" they bought the management contract and the right to sell the unsold inventory. YOU and your fellow owners bought it. How much background diligence did you do before spending all that money? Like reading the obligations you accept and how the Association works? That works for all involved. I don't like developer control on Boards either so I don't buy or sold those that had that - if it was a big problem for you why did you buy there? Have you attended meetings, asked questions , ran for the Board (or just complain about it)?

All your questions have likely been answered or would be if you actually took part in the process rather than throw accusations based on other uninformed posts. It is getting old. You wanted to be hands off & let others deal with it and this is the result. Take part and help or pay up. It's beyond the point of easy answers and no costs.

Dear timeos2 or SUPER MODERATOR:
As a orignial owner at the Point of Poipu (1995 Deeded/Fixed unit/wk), more frustrating than the SA, is the simple assumption that "taking part of the process" or "pay up" applies here. This complex has had over four "developers"? It's not as simple as to chastize someone for not being a board member, attend meetings, or take part in the process. Back ground diligence 16 years ago consisted of considerable different circumstances than what we have today. As difficult as it must be to have new forum members with less than a few posts comment, doesn't mean we aren't educated on our investment. YOU ARE CURRENTLY EXPERIENCEING THE PROCESS and should be proud to host such an important discussion. No matter how you view it, DRI hasn't allowed full disclosure! This is the single largest SA (w/o sufficient notice), in recent timeshare history and wide discussion is more than appropriate under the circumstances. Please have tolerance, although it might cause a strain on the normal or "lifetime" member/forum regulars. Patience is the least we can exhibit during this unprecedented announcement by DRI with such detrimental consequences to so many families during a continuing challenging economy.

[Kjaz Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kjaz]

Wow. Only questions, not accusations. I was responding to a blog. I have every right to question the management/maintenance. Thanks to the other responder. Sounds like super moderator needs to take a chill pill.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

From my recollection, you were involved yourself in helping a resort in Florida get out from under developer control. Why are you so against these folks organizing and throwing off the yoke of an obviously abusive developer?

One of the problems here in an incestous situation where the management also controls the board, because they are both DRI. That is a huge conflict of interest in any timeshare situation and desperately needs to be remedied. Yes, some of these members may have been sleepwalking about that problem in the past, but now they have been jolted awake. They don't need to be criticized. They need to be supported.

In a normal business situation, one would not have a management contract that could just be ''bought'' without the entity to be managed having some say in the matter. The timeshare management contracts entered into by member-controlled HOA's that I have seen, and granted it is just in my area, specifically provide that the management company cannot unilaterally transfer their rights under the contract to a third party.

I do agree with some of your comments that these folks don't need to go off half cocked. They need to do their research, as I have been recommending throughout this thread. They need to send someone to the resort and demand access to all the records to which they are entitled to inspect and copy under state law and then go through them with a fine tooth comb. They need to get together and hire a competenet Hawaii lawyer to go through what they have found. Did DRI violate any obligation under its management contract that would create a cause of action for breech of contract? Is DRI continuing to illegally deny members their right under state law to inspect and copy the membership list? Does DRI have any legal claims for any cause of action, such as products liability, that they have failed and refused to pursue? Generally RICO complaints based on generalities are not going to get anywhere. What is needed is diligent spadework and then professional advice. If DRI tries to stonewall and deny access to the records, that is a sure sign of a coverup, and legal help, of a private attorney will probably be needed to get access, but hopefully that will not be necessary.

DRI didn't purchase "the resort" they bought the management contract and the right to sell the unsold inventory. YOU and your fellow owners bought it. How much background diligence did you do before spending all that money? Like reading the obligations you accept and how the Association works? That works for all involved. I don't like developer control on Boards either so I don't buy or sold those that had that - if it was a big problem for you why did you buy there? Have you attended meetings, asked questions , ran for the Board (or just complain about it)?

All your questions have likely been answered or would be if you actually took part in the process rather than throw accusations based on other uninformed posts. It is getting old. You wanted to be hands off & let others deal with it and this is the result. Take part and help or pay up. It's beyond the point of easy answers and no costs.

[lobbyguy Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close lobbyguy]

Action Plan

The last post suggest a plan of action that has some good elements. Here is what I plan to do: Contact the media in both the Islands and mainland. DRI is holding two "snap" meetings next week and I plan to contact the media in both So Cal and Nor Cal to see if they are interested in covering some fireworks (assuming people in California show up & and what about the rest of owners) I also registered the domain concernedowersofpoipupoint.com and will put together a rudimentary site for owners to register if they want to be part of an effort to replace the board, hire representation, terminate DRI or some other concerted action. I have by no means all the answers or even know what the questions are but along the lines of some of the comments - I am willing to step up and help coalesce some action.

I contacted the city editor at the Honolulu Star Advertiser - will let you know if they are interested and may bring a video camera to the HOA meeting (wonder if they will let me record?)

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

From my recollection, you were involved yourself in helping a resort in Florida get out from under developer control. Why are you so against these folks organizing and throwing off the yoke of an obviously abusive developer?

I do agree with some of your comments that these folks don't need to go off half cocked. They need to do their research, as I have been recommending throughout this thread. They need to send someone to the resort and demand access to all the records to which they are entitled to inspect and copy under state law and then go through them with a fine tooth comb. They need to get together and hire a competenet Hawaii lawyer to go through what they have found. Did DRI violate any obligation under its management contract that would create a cause of action for breech of contract? Is DRI continuing to illegally deny members their right under state law to inspect and copy the membership list? Does DRI have any legal claims for any cause of action, such as products liability, that they have failed and refused to pursue? Generally RICO complaints based on generalities are not going to get anywhere. What is needed is diligent spadework and then professional advice. If DRI tries to stonewall and deny access to the records, that is a sure sign of a coverup, and legal help, of a private attorney will probably be needed to get access, but hopefully that will not be necessary.

I DO support and applaud any effort by individual owners to take control and be in charge of their resort vs any Developer control. But it is that very experience of over a decade ago battling an aggressive developer intent on remaining in charge & control after the time had arrived for true owner control of the Board & resort that has me frustrated here. Having been on the minority of the Board & on the receiving end of literally thousands of emails/ letters / posts from frustrated owners angry at what was then one of highest special assessments we had ever seen or heard of I know first hand which were effective and which just caused the independent Board members to through up their hands and question if the battle was really worth it.

When we got the one the missive from a previously silent owner questioning why "we" (who they meant was even in question - the Board of the time or the Developer/Management of the previous 9 years who let a once proud & beautiful resort deteriorate into a patch work of mismatched junk in a so called renovated unit) had let things go to where over 50% of the owners weren't paying their annual fees. Those messages were filled with the same type of general and basically meaningless accusations of being blind to problems or never asking /acting to correct them. Often replies well crafted & detailed in explaining how we got to where we were went unanswered (the Board was proud of the fact that every message got a detailed & personal response from a Board member - we looked for and gave back total involvement from all sides in what was\what became a true battle of wills).

The messages that came from owners who clearly had read the pages of information and web postings and/or that attended meetings and asked questions - pressured the management for details & explanations- had a powerful effect and helped push us to eventual success in removing the Developer management and placing the owners in charge. They didn't have to physically attend the meetings, as it can be extremely tough for owners spread all over the world as ours were, but merely say "here is our support of what you are attempting to accomplish and the all important proxy to back it up" is what eventually let us show both the developer and the courts where the OWNERS wanted things to go. In being tough on new owners posting here and in other venues I'm trying by "tough love" to get them to focus on what will likely be effective and least costly to get to their desired outcome.

In this case, with the changes since the late 90's as to how votes are distributed and aligned due to changes like Trust ownership & club memberships, the realty is it is highly unlikely any uprising by individual owners will succeed in taking over control. Much like Wyndham, Marriott and other multi-resort systems the votes held under Developer control are unlikely to be overridden by the individual owners. So try to use your power to direct the method used to fix the massive problem faced rather than fritter the money away to useless battles between law firms - more than happy to reap the benefits of those dollars in their pockets - and instead concentrate on using every dollar to better the resort and get the problems truly solved.

Beating your head against the wall and spending your limited money to try to fight developer control at this point would be a waste of those limited resources. I see the best route now as one of compromise between the two groups of owners and a solid plan as to how to right this rapidly sinking ship. Be realistic as to what is possible and how to make the resort viable again rather than fight a possibly satisfying, but ultimately unsuccessful war to undo defacto Developer control.

I know that is not what individual owners - especially those who bought over a decade ago when the plan called for eventual owner control as the vast majority of timeshares did - want to hear but there comes a point when the best answer is a compromise. It can be after a very costly battle for that control and then STILL a costly and less than perfect plan to repair/replace the damaged buildings OR it can be a far less expensive route directly to a plan, probably imperfect but workable, that gets the place repaired and moving forward ASAP. IMO the best bet now is the second option and that is what I would urge owners looking for the best possible outcome to persue. Being realistic and trying to hold already incredible costs as low as possible should be the owners goal. That doesn't mean they aren't fighting but that the fight is for something they are likely to win & will be as inexpensive as possible. I wish them the very best outcome possible.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

I guess the real key here comes down to what the numbers are. How many unit/weeks are owned by individual owners and how many are controlled by DRI's trusts. From what I have read previously, the individual owners are a majority, but the question is, how big a majority. There will always be an elelment of fall off from people who just don't bother to send their proxies back, although the jolt of this SA may make that lower than one would normally expect. There are also always a few that just cannot be pried away from management, no matter what management does. Thus the numbers are very important to determine whether this could actually be acoomplished.

In a few states, members seeking to get rid of developer board control or developer management can find a powerful ally in the state Real Estate Commission, the state agency that generally regulates timeshare. For a couple of decades when Blackwell Brogden ran that office at the NC Real Estate Commission, he was not shy about wading into these fights on behalf of the members with the full power of his office behind him. He was not afraid to take on anybody and even forced RCI to changes some major terms of GPN (the original name of RCI Points). On the OBX he opened an investigation of the secondary developer at Bodie Island Beach Club which resulted in the developer being forced to relinquish HOA BOD control, management of the resort, a sum of money, and his real estate broker license. Unfortunately, most states do not have a Blackwell Brogden in these positions, and it would probably be too much to hope that Hawaii did.

[fivehorizons Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close fivehorizons]

Donate to charity?

This is so frustrating. We've been owners here for 11 years. We own OF every year and we paid for our TS in full 8 years ago, when EBR still managed it. I've not been happy with the fee increase since DRI took over, but we just "sucked it up." At this point, it doesn't make sense to keep this timeshare and pay these crazy fees. Our MF plus the assessment are going to be $4000 a year for the next 5 years?? I could rent a condo or an amazing house for less than that every year-which might be better now that I have two babies. After looking at some of these posts, it sounds like we are just trapped! If I can't give my deed back, even after paying all the assessments...I don't know what to do.

My question is this, I've seen "donate your timeshare to charity" sites out there. Does anyone know how this works or if this is a viable option? At this point I'd be happy to donate my "deed" but not sure how it works, or if it would even make sense for a charity to take over a TS that has assessments on it. Maybe they would require that all the assessments are paid for upfront? Any information would be appreciated. I'm beside myself right now as I just opened our bill for 2012...

[island77 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close island77]

The last post suggest a plan of action that has some good elements. Here is what I plan to do: Contact the media in both the Islands and mainland. DRI is holding two "snap" meetings next week and I plan to contact the media in both So Cal and Nor Cal to see if they are interested in covering some fireworks (assuming people in California show up & and what about the rest of owners) I also registered the domain concernedowersofpoipupoint.com and will put together a rudimentary site for owners to register if they want to be part of an effort to replace the board, hire representation, terminate DRI or some other concerted action. I have by no means all the answers or even know what the questions are but along the lines of some of the comments - I am willing to step up and help coalesce some action.

I contacted the city editor at the Honolulu Star Advertiser - will let you know if they are interested and may bring a video camera to the HOA meeting (wonder if they will let me record?)

WOW - thank you for stepping up and taking action. Let us know when the website is up and running. Count me in.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Anybody who has been involved with Wastegate, and thus understand the futilty of individual owners, should understand that it would have been impossible to have wrestled management away from DRI.

It would have been a futile waste of energy.

Having not tried is no excuse to excuse incompetent management, if that has been the case, or to say it is now too late for owners to take action.

Now that the fruits of DRI management have been fully revealed, now may be exactly the right time.

JMHO

[waimea'smom Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close waimea'smom]

The last post suggest a plan of action that has some good elements. Here is what I plan to do: Contact the media in both the Islands and mainland. DRI is holding two "snap" meetings next week and I plan to contact the media in both So Cal and Nor Cal to see if they are interested in covering some fireworks (assuming people in California show up & and what about the rest of owners) I also registered the domain concernedowersofpoipupoint.com and will put together a rudimentary site for owners to register if they want to be part of an effort to replace the board, hire representation, terminate DRI or some other concerted action.
I contacted the city editor at the Honolulu Star Advertiser - will let you know if they are interested and may bring a video camera to the HOA meeting (wonder if they will let me record?)

I just wanted to thank you for doing this, I was actually contemplating setting up a website myself. I have been traveling to the Point since 1996 and my family owns a number of weeks. My mom has a fixed/fixed week in even years and a float/float for odd years. My grandfather owns two weeks each year (a fixed/fixed in odd years, and three float/float years).

My mother and I are attending the meeting in Southern California this week and I plan on attempting to record it on my phone, and she will also be bringing a mini cassette recorder as well.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Anybody who has been involved with Wastegate, and thus understand the futilty of individual owners, should understand that it would have been impossible to have wrestled management away from DRI.

It would have been a futile waste of energy.

Having not tried is no excuse to excuse incompetent management, if that has been the case, or to say it is now too late for owners to take action.

Now that the fruits of DRI management have been fully revealed, now may be exactly the right time.

JMHO

Replacing the management replacement requires a majority vote of all deeded interests at the resort. That's not a majority of the votes at a quorumed meeting, but a majority of all interests.

At present the Trust owns ~35% and Diamond itself holds about ~10% of the interest, leaving the general deeded ownership at about 55%. Of course that means that unless the Trust agrees to replace management, it would require that virtually all deeded owners affirmatively vote to replace resort management. If even as few as 5% of deeded simply fail to return a proxy, the deeded owners cannot replace the management company.

****

BTW - this is not hidden in the resort documents. It is very clearly described in the Timeshare Disclosure Statement that is required by Hawaii law, and that every purchaser of a deed from the developer received. The Disclosure statement specifically notes that this provision will make it virtually impossible for the owners to involuntarily replace the management company.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I'm curious . . . I'm familiar with the resort. I've been on internet timeshare forums almost every day for more than ten years. But the first I've heard of a problem at the resort is this thread.

How about you owners? Have there been some notices in the past, or any talk of a major problem? Anything to give you some forewarning of this?

When was the problem first detected, and, then, first reported to owners?

Was anything made public as a caution to buyers? After first discovering the problem, were prospective buyers informed prior to buying?

Disclosure. There may be something there.
- - - - - -
I echo the sentiments that I don't sense that this is a case of owners sitting on their duffs, letting someone do all the work, and then bitching when things go wrong. We all know the difficulty in wrestling HOAs away from overbearing Developers/manageent companies. Maybe they did not understand the danger of not g in charge of their own resort. Maybe they understood the immensity of the task to take control.

We all know resorts run by owners and resorts where the owners are not allowed to run them. What is the make-up of whatever governing board there is at this resort?

If you can't even get an owners' list, that certainly shows a reluctance to let owners run their own place.

Did any of the developers/management companies ever propose or attempt to turn the HOA over?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Hmmmm?!

Timeshare owners still disgruntled


Hawai‘i Revised Statutes Chapter 514A states, “The resident manager or managing agent or board of directors shall keep an accurate and current list of members of the association of apartment owners and their current addresses ... The list shall be maintained at a place designated by the board of directors and a copy shall be available, at cost, to any member of the association as provided in the declaration or bylaws or rules and regulations ...”

“Whoever controls the owner’s list controls the resort,” Batchelder said.

DRI also still controls a majority of the Vacation Owners Association and Association of Apartment Owners board members, as three of the five directors are employees of the management company, according to Batchelder.


Read more: http://thegardenisland.com/business/...#ixzz1azkvoFlY

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Jim - There have been ongoing complaints over the past few years about roof edge & corner problems at this resort. As it turns out they were the outward symptom of a far bigger problem - it appeared to be mostly a cosmetic, relatively small issue in very limited sections of the resort buildings. As it turns out it was a symptom of a far more pervasive and costly problem.

But, to answer your question, yes there have Ben complaints for the past couple years about water damage visable to owners.