$5,893.32 special assessment for Diamond's Point at Poipu

[gqtapper Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close gqtapper]

We have all been in the same seat. We are in a sales presentation and they offer us the timeshare at one price, then when we hmmm and haw and the price comes down, then they start adding other perks and then we are hooked. Now the catch, the deal is only good at this moment. You can't sleep on it and come back tomorrow - it's now or never. AFTER, you have signed the paperwork, you are given a large packet with a half inch thick double sided paper disclosure document. (actually, we didn't get one with our first points purchase in 2007, we bought more points in 2009) Honestly, how many of you have sat and read EVERY single page? I am sure the percentage is very low. So, we are somewhat guilty of being naive but at the same time, I feel mislead thinking that our assessment fees would only go up a little each year like everything else. That is what we are lead to believe and most of us are guilty of trusting.
I think right now the thing that bothers me the most is this can happen again and again and again and there is no where in the presentation that says, "by the way, as owners, you will be responsible for any and all expenses to repair and upgrade the buildings when they get old and fall apart"
Oh, and by the way, we have never received any copies of minutes since we have owned. I think we have received proxies but with out knowing any other owners etc. how can you vote for anyone.
We are going to Maui next week and we also feel like we need to warn all those prospective buyers to not make the mistake we did.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

DRI wears many hats here. Its hat as a large minority owner is NOT the one in question. The problems arise when it is wearing its hats as property manager and as the controlling entity on the HOA BOD. Indeed it is the fact that they are wearing so many hats, and the inherent conflicts of interest, that is largely the root of the problem.

How is it Diamond's problems but not the OWNERS? If this thread is to be believed Diamond is merely a large but minority owner. They are paying their share & they have to, as the management, bill the OWNERS for the rest.

IF you don't like who is on the Board or who manages then vote them out. That is your right. As long as this Board serves they are taking the steps they believe are needed to protect the resort. No matter who they are they are your representatives until YOU the OWNERS vote them out.

As Carolinian has said it can & has been done at other resorts. But this Board has the obligation to correct a known problem - just as any new incoming Board would also have to do. If they got 4+ bids they have proof they got the best available price.

Don't let emotion get the best of you. No matter what the Board does the owners hold the ultimate say. But if they don't take united action to change then you get exactly what you vote for. Don't look for excuses - "we can't get the owners list" - look for real answers. Again, if you are serious, it can be done. But it will cost - as in $200K I'd guess as a minimum based on similar challenges I saw in 1999-2001 at another resort. It would have been MUCH higher except the sides reached a very satisfactory settlement.

Just complaining about what is being done - or the tone of presentations - may make you feel better but does zero to change anything. Either spearhead the opposition or support someone willing to do so - that is the only real way to change things. And it won't change the need to make the repairs and/or rebuild all of which will likely cost the current $65 million or more regardless of who sits on the Board. Don't lose sight that the damage isn't imaginary - it's very real and very costly to correct or replace.

As always I wish all the owners the best and hope they can save their resort or sell it if that is what they prefer. But it is in the owners hands.

[island77 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close island77]

We have all been in the same seat. *We are in a sales presentation and they offer us the timeshare at one price, then when we hmmm and haw and the price comes down, then they start adding other perks and then we are hooked. *Now the catch, the deal is only good at this moment. *You can't sleep on it and come back tomorrow - it's now or never. AFTER, you have signed the paperwork, *you are given a large packet with a half inch thick double sided paper disclosure document. (actually, we didn't get one with our first points purchase in 2007, we bought more points in 2009) *Honestly, how many of you have sat and read EVERY single page? *I am sure the percentage is very low. *So, we are somewhat guilty of being naive but at the same time, I feel mislead thinking that our assessment fees would only go up a little each year like everything else. *That is what we are lead to believe and most of us are guilty of trusting.
I think right now the thing that bothers me the most is this can happen again and again and again and there is no where in the presentation that says, "by
the way, as owners, you will be responsible for any and all expenses to repair and upgrade the buildings when they get old and fall apart"
Oh, and by the way, we have never received any copies of minutes since we have owned. *I think we have received proxies but with out knowing any other owners etc. *how can you vote for anyone. *
We are going to Maui next week and we also feel like we need to warn all those prospective buyers to not make the mistake we did.

I read all my documents when I bought in 1997. The sales person told me I was buying oceanfront floating unit. When I saw a specific unit on the deed, I asked if it was oceanfront. They said no, that the unit was floating,but they had to put a unit down for legal purposes since it was a deed. They assured me I could reserve oceanfront as an owner, and would have priority over exchangers and rentals. They said owners were always guaranteed oceanfront if they reserved ahead. *I insisted on having this promise in writing and signed. Thank god I did. DRI tried to pressure me into converting to points when they took over. *After careful questioning, I found my conversion point level would not have been enough to get oceanfront. They would not have told me that if I hadn't pressed. They kept stressing the travel stuff and flexibility and trying to get me to walk away from my current oceanfront. Once I discovered I wouldn't be able to get oceanfront if I converted, they tried to get me to pay more to get enough points to reserve oceanfront. That is probably why they want to get deeded owners out. Why should you pay more to get what you have now? I wonder how many others converted to points without realizing they would lose oceanfront privileges? *I wonder how many others asked for a written promise they could reserve oceanfront when they signed their original purchase contracts for oceanfront floating/floating with a specific unit listed on the deed.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I wonder how many others asked for a written promise they could reserve oceanfront when they signed their original purchase contracts for oceanfront floating/floating with a specific unit listed on the deed.

Actually, everyone who purchased a floating view has that confirmed in writing whether they know it or not. It's all laid out very clearly and specifically in the Timeshare Disclosure Statement which everyone received (required by Hawaii law) when they bought a unit from the developer. It's a package of about 50 pages, the front page of which has huge, black letters that scream, "DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THIS DOCUMENT".

The Statement very clearly describes the rights and privileges of Type II, Type IIA, Type IIB, Type IIc, and Type IID ownesr. (Those are the different view categories at the resort for 2-bedroom units. Type II is floating, Type IIA is oceanfront, etc.). It says very clearly that Type II owners can reserve any unit in the resort in any view category and the owners of other types can only reserve in their view categories.

It also very clearly says that unless someone bought a fixed unit/fixed week the unit number that is on the deed is for inventory control purposes. It describes the floating reservation system and explicitly states that the owner of a deed to a specific unit and week has no specific rights and privileges to reserve the unit and week on their deed and can only make reservations to stay at the resort through the reservation system described in the timeshare program documents and in accordance with their unit type.

To wit, if you have a Type II ownership it makes absolutely no difference what view category your unit is in. What counts is that your unit was sold as Type II. When they did move to selling in view categories, then buyers received a unit that matched the type of unit they were buying. But again, that is for inventory control purposes, to ensure that they didn't sell more of one particular view category than there were deeds available in that view category.

*****

BTW - there is no such animal as "oceanfront floating/floating". What is often dubbed a "float/float" unit is a Tye II unit, as described above, which has no assigned view category. It's called a "float/float" because it "floats" in both view category and time. All other non-fixed week units are float only for time but not for view category.

*****

And yes, when they started pushing points, the point levels people received when converting were not enough to reserve in their existing view category, and the float-float owners in particular only received 10,000 points, which is roughly equivalent to partial ocean view, non-holiday.

When they told us about that I smiled, looked the salesman in his eye and asked him why he would ever think we would hand over a bunch of money and wind up with less than we have now? He smiled back at me admitted that converting make no sense for us. we got our gifts early that day!

A few years later they realized the stupidity of that, and began offering float-float owners a grandfather letter giving them the right to reserve any unit at any time for 10,000 points if they join the club. But they only give out that letter if someone asks for it or if the owner is balking at joining the club because they've realized that will actually lose reservation abilities.

*****

The business of listing a specific unit and week on a deed, even though the owner receives no right to that unit and week, is good. That requirement ensures that the resort cannot be oversold, as has happened at some resorts where deeding to specific units was not implemented.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

Amen!

The business of listing a specific unit and week on a deed, even though the owner receives no right to that unit and week, is good. That requirement ensures that the resort cannot be oversold, as has happened at some resorts where deeding to specific units was not implemented.

Overselling often occurs in private membership camping clubs, where documenting inventory in such a manner is not required by law. I believe that all timeshare regulations in the US also require at least one (and normally two) weeks be left vacant as maintenance weeks.. This is not a requirement for many international properties..

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong..

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I read all my documents when I bought in 1997. The sales person told me I was buying oceanfront floating unit.

See, ya shoulda known there might a water problem.

[Kpaul Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Kpaul]

“Diamond Resorts does not buy back properties or points nor do we release owners from their financial obligations in the form of a voluntary surrender. You may have seen postings online which states we do, however the voluntary surrender program ended on (or around July 1, 2011). As this program was not a requirement of Diamond Resorts, there were no efforts made to inform our members/owners that this program was ending.”

David Conrado | Specialist | Hospitality Management | Diamond Resorts International® | Tel: 702.823.7129 | Fax: 702.684.8712

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Overselling often occurs in private membership camping clubs, where documenting inventory in such a manner is not required by law. I believe that all timeshare regulations in the US also require at least one (and normally two) weeks be left vacant as maintenance weeks.. This is not a requirement for many international properties..

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong..

Some of the Mexican timeshare operations - Royal Sunset immediately comes to mind - also oversold the resort.

[petew Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close petew]

I believe that all timeshare regulations in the US also require at least one (and normally two) weeks be left vacant as maintenance weeks.

We were told at KBR when we were considering buying a deeded week that Sunterra sold 51 intervals for each unit.

Of course now with the Hawaii collection DRI can add points in Sedona or Las Vegas and sell the Points in Hawaii. Overselling the expectation of a week at KBR or Poipu.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

We were told at KBR when we were considering buying a deeded week that Sunterra sold 51 intervals for each unit.

Of course now with the Hawaii collection DRI can add points in Sedona or Las Vegas and sell the Points in Hawaii. Overselling the expectation of a week at KBR or Poipu.

Point at Poipu units are carved into 51 weeks per year as well.

[pseda Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pseda]

Please keep in touch as I am following this for my Parents as well.

Keep me posted as well. Interested in fighting for fairness and our rights as owners!!

[pseda Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pseda]

I read all my documents when I bought in 1997. The sales person told me I was buying oceanfront floating unit. When I saw a specific unit on the deed, I asked if it was oceanfront. They said no, that the unit was floating,but they had to put a unit down for legal purposes since it was a deed. They assured me I could reserve oceanfront as an owner, and would have priority over exchangers and rentals. They said owners were always guaranteed oceanfront if they reserved ahead. *I insisted on having this promise in writing and signed. Thank god I did. DRI tried to pressure me into converting to points when they took over. *After careful questioning, I found my conversion point level would not have been enough to get oceanfront. They would not have told me that if I hadn't pressed. They kept stressing the travel stuff and flexibility and trying to get me to walk away from my current oceanfront. Once I discovered I wouldn't be able to get oceanfront if I converted, they tried to get me to pay more to get enough points to reserve oceanfront. That is probably why they want to get deeded owners out. Why should you pay more to get what you have now? I wonder how many others converted to points without realizing they would lose oceanfront privileges? *I wonder how many others asked for a written promise they could reserve oceanfront when they signed their original purchase contracts for oceanfront floating/floating with a specific unit listed on the deed.

We got a grandfather clause that lets us book oceanfront for 10000 points per year. If you went online to book it takes approx twice that to book. You're so right, have to stay on top of all this while they're busy making big promises and speaking out of both sides of their mouths.

[pseda Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close pseda]

Did ask DRI about the voluntary surrender program. I was told they did have that program but that it wasn't being offered at this time. Its set up so that under certain circumstances cases are reviewed and considered. My question is how can you legally offer this to one person and not another. Seems to be some discrepancy here. I also noted that in their Q&A section online re: water intrusion project, they quoted that the developer's portion of the assessment was $7.3million as well as DRI's assessment to be $7.3million. I've sent out an email for clarification as these figures do not match up with what was quoted on last owners meeting minutes. Can't we as owners ask for a special vote re: proposed figures in this assessment??

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Did ask DRI about the voluntary surrender program. I was told they did have that program but that it wasn't being offered at this time. Its set up so that under certain circumstances cases are reviewed and considered. My question is how can you legally offer this to one person and not another. Seems to be some discrepancy here. I also noted that in their Q&A section online re: water intrusion project, they quoted that the developer's portion of the assessment was $7.3million as well as DRI's assessment to be $7.3million. I've sent out an email for clarification as these figures do not match up with what was quoted on last owners meeting minutes. Can't we as owners ask for a special vote re: proposed figures in this assessment??

You can ask for anything you want. You have no way to force it to happen unless the Board as it currently sits agrees.

As an Association any offer made to one owner has to be made to all. But it can have an end date. A system - such as a Trust - may or may not have the same requirements.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

As an Association any offer made to one owner has to be made to all. But it can have an end date. A system - such as a Trust - may or may not have the same requirements.

And that's the nub. The offer was not being made by the resort Association but by DRI.

As regards ownership at the resort, DRI is simply an owner like others. So DRI's operation of surrender program is pretty much the same as if pseda was interested in acquiring more units and created a "pseda voluntary surrender offer" in which he/she would consider accepting deeds from anyone who was willing to surrender a deed to him/her, provided all fees were current, there were no other encumbrances on the deed, and the deedholder paid the transfer fee.

pseda would be under no obligation to offer that program to all comers (with the proviso that pseda not discrminate against protected groups in the implementation of the "pseda voluntary surrender program"), and pseda would certainly be free to cease or restart that program at any time that pseda wished.

*****

If a legal decision were reached that the HOA and DRI were so intertwined as to be the same legal entity, then the analysis might be different. But for the moment they are separate legal entities, so DRI's is as free to stop and start the program as pseda himself/herself would be if they were operating their own deed acceptance program.