Sunterra Question for Spence

[Eileen A. Member Find all posts View Profile Close Eileen A.]

I am in the process of purchasing the following: Deed at Scottsdale Village Mirage worth 30,000 points if converted.

I'm currently a Sunterra owner 4,000 points (at Scottsdale Links - was EPIC which I picked up on EBAY). Deed at Maui worth 8,500 points and 3,000 points bought at retail in the Trust.

Question: Should I convert the new deed to points or just wait and see what happens to Sunterra.

I received the following information from them:
Corporate - see someone at the sales offices

Scottsdale - would need to pay $2,995 times three or $9,000 to convert as my deed is the equiv. of 3 2-bedroom weeks. Or buy 7,500 points to become Plat. Elite at 50,000 pts. They would see me the 7,500 pts for $9,800. They thought that my deed was only worth 27,000 pts when I told them that it was worth 30,000.

Orlando - just returned got $100 to attend the update. They told me NO MORE Conversions I should buy 4,500 for $8,400 to become Plat. Elite. I almost bit thinking it was a better deal than Scottsdale but then remembered Scottsdale was trying to sell 7,500 pts.


What would you suggest.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

The Sunterra 'dance'

$6650 was not a bad price, I didn't see that one, I got one just like it for $5000 not too long ago and gave it to another TS4Ms member, wonder if he resold it, that wouldn't be so nice of him.

You're getting some bad info OY. Since conversions with Sunterra fall into the realm of the Sales Department you never know what answer you'll get.... they're just trying to make as much money as they can as fast as they can.

The bottom line is the $2995 per deed or bunch of deeds... paying it three times as you described is utter BS. They will always try to tell you that you must buy 2000-3000 developer points for $5K-$7K in order to convert, that is their Sales policy BUT the bottom line is $2995 total. To get that maybe you need to approach them at the end of the month when some salesman is desparate or take whatever offer they give you and rescind the next day... then they may counter with the bottom line.

I have complained to 'corporate' about all the different stories and deals and asked where I could refer people to get the bottom line and was told
Your best bet would be to contact our Telesales office in Oceanside, California. You can email Thomas Thompson (Tthompson@Sunterra.com) and he should be able to assist in these matters.
If you do this, please let us know how it turns out, if it works and your goal is Platinum, you may want to quickly by something else to convert with your 30K.

I have no crystal ball about Sunterra's financial woes.

[Eileen A. Member Find all posts View Profile Close Eileen A.]

Sunterra Question for Spence

Thank you so much! I appreciate the help. A couple more questions if you don't mind:

When I was close to signing papers in Orlando the salesman wrote up paperwork that was going to put my Maui points into the Trust. I said no way did I want to do that. Why would they try this. Do the make more off the sale?

If I convert my soon-to-be deed does it become part of the Trust and not a Scottsdale Villa Mirage Deed anymore?

I've enjoyed Sunterra so far but now realize I bought too much at retail. I paid $18,000 for the Maui Deed and $6,000 for the 3,000 Trust points. The 4,000 points I bought when they were EPIC cost me $880 on Ebay.

How important to you think it is to be Platinum?

I recently rented to a coworker a Deluxe Ocean View on Maui for $1,000. I used 5,750 points in the 59 day window. I figure if I could do this once or twice a year it would help with MFs. The MFs on the Villa Mirage will be $1,577.

Again I appreciate your help. Hope I am learning.

[Eileen A. Member Find all posts View Profile Close Eileen A.]

Sunterra - need more help from Spence

Hi Spence,

The e-mail address you gave me for someone at the Sunterra Oceanside Telesales Office came back as undeliverable. Tomorrow I will try to contact the office directly if I can find a number. I wonder if Thomas Thompson left the company? Do you have any other contacts at corporate. Also I posted a couple of more questions on yesterdays tread. If you wouldn't mind .... Again I really appreciate your help.

Eileen A.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Thank you so much! I appreciate the help. A couple more questions if you don't mind:

When I was close to signing papers in Orlando the salesman wrote up paperwork that was going to put my Maui points into the Trust. I said no way did I want to do that. Why would they try this. Do the make more off the sale?

If I convert my soon-to-be deed does it become part of the Trust and not a Scottsdale Villa Mirage Deed anymore?

I've enjoyed Sunterra so far but now realize I bought too much at retail. I paid $18,000 for the Maui Deed and $6,000 for the 3,000 Trust points. The 4,000 points I bought when they were EPIC cost me $880 on Ebay.

How important to you think it is to be Platinum?

I recently rented to a coworker a Deluxe Ocean View on Maui for $1,000. I used 5,750 points in the 59 day window. I figure if I could do this once or twice a year it would help with MFs. The MFs on the Villa Mirage will be $1,577.

Again I appreciate your help. Hope I am learning.

There must be some advantage to Sunterra to holding everything in the Trust, I don't pretend to understand what it is, maybe some sort of continuous control, I don't know. Maybe Sunterra gets to vote the Trust interests at the properties?

They try to sell it to you as protection against jumps in maintenance fees... but in the long run you're gonna pay what you're gonna pay.

The higher level Elite you are, the less you pay for things like reservation protection and upgrades and maybe some Club Select fees, I don't remember.

There's supposed to be an update in the mail with all next year's materials, I haven't got it yet but have been told that it includes an increase in fees for Reservation Protection but then a decrease in the increase if you book it online. Also been told that a new Member Benefit is TravelOptions to trade points for car rentals and more.

Hi Spence,

The e-mail address you gave me for someone at the Sunterra Oceanside Telesales Office came back as undeliverable. Tomorrow I will try to contact the office directly if I can find a number. I wonder if Thomas Thompson left the company? Do you have any other contacts at corporate. Also I posted a couple of more questions on yesterdays tread. If you wouldn't mind .... Again I really appreciate your help.

Eileen A.

I'll see if I can get another lead.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

When I was close to signing papers in Orlando the salesman wrote up paperwork that was going to put my Maui points into the Trust. I said no way did I want to do that. Why would they try this. Do the make more off the sale?

As previously discussed there's probably some sort of legal control issue... no, I don't think that they make more off the individual transaction. If you like your deeded property, by all means tell them no way.

If I convert my soon-to-be deed does it become part of the Trust and not a Scottsdale Villa Mirage Deed anymore?

I've seen people convert and turn their deed in getting Trust membership in return and I've seen just a signing over of use of your deeded week in return for points, that's how I've done it.

I've enjoyed Sunterra so far but now realize I bought too much at retail. I paid $18,000 for the Maui Deed and $6,000 for the 3,000 Trust points. The 4,000 points I bought when they were EPIC cost me $880 on Ebay.

Many people have bought retail, you're not the only one. It's a good product just enjoy it, you're obviously averaging down your cost per point, that's what I've done, too. Although all mine were bought resale, I paid way too much for some deeds in my younger days.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

[edited]: [STRIKE]You definitely do want to add Maui to the trust,[/STRIKE] You definitely do not want to add Maui to the trust,as that will cause your annual fees to go up. (I assume this would be the Hawai`i trust.)

Annual fees for the Hawai`i trust are a blend of the fees assessed by the HOAs at Po`ipu and Ka`anapali. Because annual fees are higher for Po`ipu than Ka`anapali, Ka`anapali owners who convert to the trust see an increase in fees. (The reverse is true for Po`ipu owners.)

In addition, when you add the deed to the trust you surrender your deed in favor of membership in the trust. So, if you ever decide to sell, all you can sell is the trust membership; you can't go back to the deed.

[Eileen A. Member Find all posts View Profile Close Eileen A.]

T.R.

You said "I do want to add to the trust" did you mean to say "do not want to add to the Trust".

I believe they were trying to get me to convert my Maui Deed to the "Florida" Trust as those were the additional points they were trying to sell. So instead of the 4,500 pts I was buying the paperwork said 13,000 pts.

It all seemed really sneaky. We signed the purchase agreement but then left to meet family at the amusement parks with the understanding that we would come back the next day to sign all the legal papers. After thinking about it I went back the next day and told them we had changed our minds. Good thing.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

T.R.

You said "I do want to add to the trust" did you mean to say "do not want to add to the Trust".

I believe they were trying to get me to convert my Maui Deed to the "Florida" Trust as those were the additional points they were trying to sell. So instead of the 4,500 pts I was buying the paperwork said 13,000 pts.

It all seemed really sneaky. We signed the purchase agreement but then left to meet family at the amusement parks with the understanding that we would come back the next day to sign all the legal papers. After thinking about it I went back the next day and told them we had changed our minds. Good thing.

You're right - I did mean to say "do not add to the trust". I'll fix that.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Steve,
What is your understanding of how holding properties in Trust benefits Sunterra?

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I don't know that I can answer that. There must be some advantage though, else why would Sunterra have bothered setting up the trust.

***

One advantage does come to mind, at least for the Hawai`i properties. By selling out of the trust, they don't have to sell full weeks. E.g., they can sell 3,000 options, which is far less than the value for any week.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

I don't know that I can answer that. There must be some advantage though, else why would Sunterra have bothered setting up the trust.***One advantage does come to mind, at least for the Hawai`i properties. By selling out of the trust, they don't have to sell full weeks. E.g., they can sell 3,000 options, which is far less than the value for any week.

True, but they could easily do that with the UDI deeds that I've seen from resorts such as Greensprings, Cypress Point Ph2, Grand Beach, Villas de Santa Fe, Villa Mirage, etc.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Hi Spence, The e-mail address you gave me for someone at the Sunterra Oceanside Telesales Office came back as undeliverable. Tomorrow I will try to contact the office directly if I can find a number. I wonder if Thomas Thompson left the company? Do you have any other contacts at corporate. Also I posted a couple of more questions on yesterdays tread. If you wouldn't mind .... Again I really appreciate your help. Eileen A.

With a little more research I've found out that due to operations costs the office in Oceanside has been closed. I do have a source for conversion of resale properties at a rate of $2995 per property, contact me for details. If you're doing more than one property the sales sites offer a 'free' conversion with a minimum purchase of 2000 additional SunOptions and that should apply to more than one property and may be the best way to go in that case. AND the 'dance' previously alluded to could still be used to try to get the conversion for $2995 from the sales sites.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

True, but they could easily do that with the UDI deeds that I've seen from resorts such as Greensprings, Cypress Point Ph2, Grand Beach, Villas de Santa Fe, Villa Mirage, etc.

Ownership in the Hawai`i trust allows reserving space 13 months in advance at either Po`ipu or Ka`anapali.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Ownership in the Hawai`i trust allows reserving space 13 months in advance at either Po`ipu or Ka`anapali.

But my understanding of these arrangements is that the only inventory a Hawaii Trust member can draw from at 13months is the Trust inventory. A deed owner who is in the Club can draw from deeded Club inventory at their own resort at 12months. Either type of owner can draw from all Club inventory at Hawaii resorts at 10months as can any other Club Sunterra member.