Polo Towers Suites

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Looks like DRI/Sunterra is doing very well in converting present owners or DRI has some of it's own inventory to dump into the pool.

After a cursory look, seems that they have only two seasons, High and Peak.
High
Studio 6000
1BR 9000
2BR 12000
Peak
Studio 8000
1BR 11000
2BR 15000

WOW! Talk about points inflation for a 'new' resort (ala WM model)

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

This is along the lines of what they're offering owners to get them to put their weeks into Sunterra's SunOptions and part of the reason I did so. For my two units I was given 26,500 points. In Club Sunterra's system this is a lot of points for just two units.

On initial glance this seems like a lot and it is for Club Sunterra. However, in the Interval International exchange system this isn't an upgrade. I've been exchanging the studio portion of our two bedroom unit for one bedroom units, and occasionally two bedroom units, on a regular basis. The one bedroom side has been exchange for two bedroom units in the past but, most of the time we've accepted one bedroom units for it's exchange.

In the Sunterra Points system, my two bedroom unit is worth 12,000 points or two 1 bedroom units plus a few points left over. In some ways that's a step back from what I've been getting for my units. Especially if you consider that those units have been getting AC's from I.I. in the past. The AC's had been given for just depositing the one bedroom side. For 2008 I believe they were only going to give the AC if I deposited my entire unit.

The other item is quality. We've exchanged into a couple of Sunterra properties/affiliates. While nice, they were not the same quality, even with Suites dated units and not even close to the Villa's units. Plus, PT's has one of the best locations in Vegas rather than being a few blocks away from the action. I've notice that Sunterra resorts that appear to have great locations also have similar point values. Resorts that don't have the great locations and the resorts we've stayed at where the quality wasn't quite up to par would take less points to stay at.

Quality and loction of current Sunterra resorts were considerations against joining Club Sunterra and almost tipped things the other way. Greensprings Plantation was all right but not great. Gatlinburg Town Square has a good loction but the units leave something to be desired. We've been by Plantation at Fall Creek in Branson and it's location and layout leaves a LOT to be desired.

One last consideration that I'm certain weighed heavy on how many points PT's was assigned. Desert Paradise in Vegas is quite a ways off the strip and not nealy as nice as PT's (it's not even a 5 star resort) yet has similar point values (9,000 and 10,000 for 2 bedroom units). There is NO way that PT's owners would have been happy if they'd have been assigned the same point values as a resort that is several blocks off strip and not even 5 star, especially after paying over $1,000 in an SA to upgrade a 2 bedroom unit. PT's points would HAVE to be higher than that resort in order to seem equitable.

I really don't think it's points inflation so much as PT's has a great location and is a quality resort (by comparison to other Sunterra resorts). Especially with the upgrades paid for with the SA that was recently passed. Based on what research I've done into Sun Options, the points required for present Sunterra resorts and it's affiliates, 12,000 points for a 2 bedroom suite and 14,500 points for a 2 bedroom Villa's seems appropriate.

As far as points conversions going briskly, I can see this happening especially with the Suites owners. The Suites are fixed week units. Initially, when the resort was still pretty young, PT's allowed owners to float their weeks despite the fact they were sold as fixed weeks. Once the resort began to approach sell out it became difficult to allow those weeks to float because the owners wanting to use their fixed weeks were finding PT's had overbooked the resort. It caused problems and they went back to the original contract of not allowing floating (unless you could book less than 60 days and units were availabl). By converting to SunOptions, those fixed week units will once again be floating weeks units by virtue of reserving through Club Sunterra.

With the Villa's I'm not so certain that owners will be jumping on the bandwagon. The Villa's have always been floating weeks. IMO there is less advantage to convert a Villa's week than a Suites week. The only reason we converted the Villa's week we own is because we were converting the Suites week, we don't plan on using the Villa's week for personal usage and converting both gave us a significant amount of SunOptions and elevated us into Silver Elite status. My bet is conversion of Villa's weeks to Club Sun will be a little slower than with Suites owners.

I'm sure you know that I wrestled with the option of converting or not converting. It was pretty close IMO as to the advantages of SunOption vs just remaining with what I had. In the end, it was the issues with RCI becoming Rents Condo's Instead rather than an exchange company. I fear that in order to increase profits that I.I. would follow RCI's example. I decided that it's was better to be a part of a mini-system than an owner at an independant resort. Especially since my present position on the units I owned at that resort was to exchange them.

For those reading this without knowing my history, the reason for exchanging our PT's units is that we now own a total of four Las Vegas units. PT's was the first timeshare we purchased in Vegas and we use to go to Vegas 4 or 5 times per year. Our Vegas trips have been cut back to 1 or 2 per year and we prefer to use our Hilton or Marriott units over our PT's units. Depsite the fact PT's is a quality resort, they still do not offer the quality of either Hilton or Marriott. Thus after a number of years they have become exchange units for us. Essentially our situation and needs have change rather than the resort becoming undesirable.

[Ryne08 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ryne08]

Doug 26364 define a nice resort in the Sunterra chain of resorts?

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

These guys really over estimate the value of what they own

Looks like DRI/Sunterra is doing very well in converting present owners or DRI has some of it's own inventory to dump into the pool.

After a cursory look, seems that they have only two seasons, High and Peak.
High
Studio 6000
1BR 9000
2BR 12000
Peak
Studio 8000
1BR 11000
2BR 15000

WOW! Talk about points inflation for a 'new' resort (ala WM model)

WAY out of line with the majority of Sunterra resort point levels. Not going to get many takers at those inflated levels when I can stay for half that amount at the much nicer Marriott or Wyndham Grand Desert around the corner.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

The other item is quality. We've exchanged into a couple of Sunterra properties/affiliates. While nice, they were not the same quality, even with Suites dated units and not even close to the Villa's units. Plus, PT's has one of the best locations in Vegas rather than being a few blocks away from the action. I've notice that Sunterra resorts that appear to have great locations also have similar point values. Resorts that don't have the great locations and the resorts we've stayed at where the quality wasn't quite up to par would take less points to stay at.

Quality and loction of current Sunterra resorts were considerations against joining Club Sunterra and almost tipped things the other way. Greensprings Plantation was all right but not great. Gatlinburg Town Square has a good loction but the units leave something to be desired. We've been by Plantation at Fall Creek in Branson and it's location and layout leaves a LOT to be desired.

You are correct that the quality/location can vary widely at Sunterra locations. But that is no reason to overpoint a "new" club affiliate. They have never, to my knowledge, gone back to review and correct the point allotments given to club resorts. Since that was originally done in 1998-1999 many have changed since that time. Some for better, many for worse. Keeping the points as they were doesn't reflect what the value may be today.

I hope they plan to make a sweeping review of all resorts and point values as they transition to the new Diamond name, but I wouldn't hold my breath in anticipation. As it stands I'd be far better off simply using II with the Sunterra priority as the value for PT is much lower going that way than directly through Club and is cheaper even with the exchange fee. How stupid is that? Sometimes Carolinian makes valid arguments such as the fixed nature of some points based systems. Based on the poor performance of Sunterra in maintaining resorts over the years and the lack of adjustments made to point allotments this is a poster child group for that statement.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

You are correct that the quality/location can vary widely at Sunterra locations. But that is no reason to overpoint a "new" club affiliate. They have never, to my knowledge, gone back to review and correct the point allotments given to club resorts. Since that was originally done in 1998-1999 many have changed since that time. Some for better, many for worse. Keeping the points as they were doesn't reflect what the value may be today.

I hope they plan to make a sweeping review of all resorts and point values as they transition to the new Diamond name, but I wouldn't hold my breath in anticipation. As it stands I'd be far better off simply using II with the Sunterra priority as the value for PT is much lower going that way than directly through Club and is cheaper even with the exchange fee. How stupid is that? Sometimes Carolinian makes valid arguments such as the fixed nature of some points based systems. Based on the poor performance of Sunterra in maintaining resorts over the years and the lack of adjustments made to point allotments this is a poster child group for that statement.

From what Mr. Cloobeck has said, he intends to take a different approach. That being bringing the resorts that have fallen off the mark back up to standards. It's my belief DRI will do this just like they've done at Polo Towers, with the owners paying a special assessement for the necessary "upgrades" that should have been set aside in reserves but were not.

But, like I said, I don't believe that Polo Towers was overvalued to begin with. I make this statement in direct comparison to the point value at Desert Paradise. Desert Paradise does not have the loction or the quality of Polo Towers. We toured Desert Paradise when it was relatively new and still an Epic resort. It wasn't the same value as Polo Towers then. So even if it had gone downhill by the time Sunterra took it over and was brought back up to like new condition, it still should not be valued with the same amount of points as Polo Towers.

I can come up with four good reason why the point value at Polo Towers is not inflated.

#1. Desert Paradse is valued at 9,000 points for high seasn and 10,000 points for peak season. Polo Towers is at 12,000 points for high season and 15,000 points for peak season. Generally speaking on strip locations are preferable to off strip locations. Sort of like on beach locations are preferable to locations a couple of miles away from the beach and located in a residential neighborhood.

#2. Polo Towers is a five star resort. Desert Paradise is not

#3. I have not checked but I'd almost bet that if you check hotel prices in Vegas for hotels offstrip in residential neighborhoods and compare them to hotels located on the strip and of better quality (non-five star Desert Paradise off strip vs 5 star Polo Towers on strip) you'll find that the off strip property rents for considerably less. I know that when extending our timeshare trips in Vegas I've choosen off strip properties to save significant amounts of money in the past.

#4. I've been able to exchange/see one bedroom units with our PT's studio LO's relatively easily through the years. PT's has been recieving AC's for owners deposits with I.I. Thus they would need to have the point values in Club Sunterra up high enough to reflect a similar ability when exchanging through I.I. Otherwise PT's owners would be short changed on their external exchanges through Club Sunterra if they joined rather than remain as they were.

So that's at least four good reason why PT's is valued at 50% more points than Desert Paradise. I feel like the point value is legitimate based on those direct comparison's in location/qualtity to Desert Paradise and not a result of "point inflation." I will acknowledge that part of the reason for not joining points programs is that develpers can manipulate point values for new resorts in order to keep owners at older resorts buying new points. It's just that in the light of what's already in Vegas with Club Sunterra they would have to allot more points to a resort of better quality rating in I.I. and better location that what they presently have.

I have noted that in more than one case, I'd be better off exchanging through I.I. for Club Sunterra resorts rather than doing and internal exchange through Sunterra. There are many resorts that require more than 6,500 points for a 2 bedroom reservation in Club Sun.

For that matter, as a deeded owner outside of Club Sun, I could lock off my PT's units and use the one bedroom unit one week and the studio unit one week. With the point breakdowns in Club Sun I don't have enough points to do that as a Club Sunterra member.

When you read through Club Sunterra information, there are many such instances of "how stupid is that" moments. This is not unusual for points based programs and has been one of the issues I've had with points some points based reservations systems. If I had my choice, Club Sunterra might not have been my first choise for a mini-system. As it is, I really had no choice in the matter.

Perhaps there will be a re-evaluation of the points structure. The one thing you can be certain of is that there will be many members who will want to through the baby out with the bath water if/when that ever happens.

It was not an easy decision for me to join Club Sunterra. There are just about as many points against joining as for joining. If the RCI hadn't been making as many disturbing changes in their program in as rapid succession as they have been doing, I still might not be a member of Club Sun. It wasn't that Club Sunterra was such a great value that got me to convert as it was shelter from the storms of change that are rapidly going through the external exchange companies. don't see it as the safest/best port in the storm but it's the only port that I could use.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Desert Paradise and the rest of the EPIC Resorts were over-valued too when they came into the system.

There have been very few valuation changes, I remember a couple but only the specifics of where I own, and that makes the Polo valuation even odder.

In the early days a 4BR (2x2BR) was discounted over two separate 2BRs at Powhatan and Greensprings. So if you booked a 4BR, it cost you less points than two 2BRs. Didn't make much sense as they gave a 4BR owner the points every year equivalent to two 2BRs. I didn't complain, but they later modified the rental value of the 4BR to be exactly twice a 2BR.

At Polo aren't the 2BRs lockouts with a 1BR and a Studio? From what has been said, new conversions are getting 12,000 SunOptions but if they tried to book separately they wouldn't have enough points as a 1BR is 9000 and a Studio is 6000???

[winger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close winger]

Looks like DRI/Sunterra is doing very well in converting present owners or DRI has some of it's own inventory to dump into the pool.
...

I had a 'peek' at the unowned inventory a day or two before the start of this who DRI/Sunterra conversion effort. If memory serves me right, Polo had at least 20+ of these 'weeks' that did NOT have owners - hypothetically, these can be automatically thrown into the Sunterra pool. I do not think these were units that were available the entire year, just weeks of availability. As more Polo/DRI owners convert, this means more Sunterra inventory at Polo

[winger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close winger]

...At Polo aren't the 2BRs lockouts with a 1BR and a Studio? From what has been said, new conversions are getting 12,000 SunOptions but if they tried to book separately they wouldn't have enough points as a 1BR is 9000 and a Studio is 6000???

Each Polo 2BR's is one bedroom (sleeps 4) plus one studio (sleeps 2)

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Desert Paradise and the rest of the EPIC Resorts were over-valued too when they came into the system.

There have been very few valuation changes, I remember a couple but only the specifics of where I own, and that makes the Polo valuation even odder.

In the early days a 4BR (2x2BR) was discounted over two separate 2BRs at Powhatan and Greensprings. So if you booked a 4BR, it cost you less points than two 2BRs. Didn't make much sense as they gave a 4BR owner the points every year equivalent to two 2BRs. I didn't complain, but they later modified the rental value of the 4BR to be exactly twice a 2BR.

At Polo aren't the 2BRs lockouts with a 1BR and a Studio? From what has been said, new conversions are getting 12,000 SunOptions but if they tried to book separately they wouldn't have enough points as a 1BR is 9000 and a Studio is 6000???

Yep, the points required if you LO your unit are higher than the point value given to the unit as a whole. When sold, one of the "big advantages" of the 2 bedroom LO unit was that you could take two weeks vacation for the price of one. In theory both weeks in Vegas but, since there are fixed weeks that don't float real easily (must be booked within 60 day window similar to I.I.'s flexchange) that really made the "two weeks" in Vegas more difficult than sold. But, when originally sold, even though they were fixed weeks management was allowing the weeks to float. We have never stayed on our assigned Suites week. When they quit allowing the fixed weeks to float we started exchanging our week.

I can't argue that Desert Paradise if over valued in points. When I looked at the points alloted for Desert Paradise compared to other units I felt that way as well. However, since DP is what it is, I can't see that DRI had much choice but to value PT's at a higher value.

One of my points for it's valuation is how well it's exchanged in the past through I.I. If the points had not been sufficient to at least get two one bedroom units in exchange then owners at PT's would have felt the point value to low and exchange availability/power through I.I. would be diminished. That would result in fewer conversions. DRI probably didn't have a lot of choice in how it valued PT's based on past exchange history through I.I. and desire to sell more conversions.

Now, perhaps it's not that PT's is "over valued" but that other resorts are undervalued. Since I'm just starting out and only have limited expericne exchanging into Suterra resorts, I don't really have an educated opinion on this.

I can say the Greensprings has nicer grounds but the units were poorer in condition and soft goods than PT's. No curtains but cheap blinds instead (we really like curtains on the windows, especially in the bedrooms). Inexpensive furnishings, good location but not the best location et.....Greensprings did have very nice grounds and activities. I really feel like this resort is perhaps undervalued as far as points but, It's an EXTREMELY easy resort to exchange into via I.I. In fact, our exchange into Greensprings was via an AC we got for our 1 bedroom Suites at PT's unit and we were able to make that exchange almost 12 months in advance. Because it is such an easy resort to exchange into via an external exchange company is what keeps the points value down at this resort.

Likewise with Gatlinburg Town Square. Nice location in relationship to the national park downtown Gatlinburg but inferior accomadations (nice but not great). The views were of the resort itself, tiny outdoor pool, 4 machine fitness center et....The point value Sunterra applies to GTS seems appropriate to me. It's a nice resort, I'd stay there again but the unit we were in could also have me looking at what other resorts have to offer in the area.

There are a LOT of holes in Sunterra's SunOptions system IMO. There are times when it is obvious that exchanging through I.I. would save points but get the same size unit. Of course that's assuming you want to pay $135 as an exchange fee to "save" a few thousand points. I've noted this discrepancy with the Sedona resorts, which seem to be a pretty easy exchange in and of themselves.

Conversly I've seen that getting into Sunterra's Hawiian resorts via external trade might not be possible. Therefore it may be well worth the extra points going through Sunterra rather than attempting an external exchange via I.I.

As it stands now, there can be a LOT of manipulation of the SunOptions system depending on home much money you want to spend. I see changes on the horizon when DRI gets it's feet firmly on the ground. Whether or not that's good for the owners or good for DRI or some sort of compromise is anyone's bet (I'm sure you can assume my beliefs).

Personally, I really like Hilton's point set up as it stands now. ALL two bedroom units of a particular season and class are the SAME point value. All trade the same through RCI. Essentially, all units of the same size and class are equal in the sytem. The quality as far as I can tell between resorts is pretty standard. There is no over valuation or bickering about quality, resort location et.....

What I would like to see is all Sunterra resorts brought up to similar standards of quality and service and equal point valuations across the board for all units of equal size, class and season. But I don't necessarily see that as an advantage to a developer who is trying to sell existing owners more points. I see the system more or less staying the same with dispariety between resorts quality and point values. It's just to much of a temptation for a developer that wants owners to have to buy more points to be able to do what they want to do. Sort of a carrott and stick situation.

Of course, if/when they modify the points system you're going to have winners and losers. Those who suffer a "devaluation" in points will be mad and those who stay the same or have an improved position will be happy. But if a two bedroom peak season unit is worth a two bedroom peak season unit anywhere in the Sunterra system that seems to be en equiatable solution IMO. So long as resort quality is consistant throughout the system. It seems that it's going to be a long climb to get a standarized quality throughout and that it will take a lot of dollars (via special assessments) to get the job done. Therefore, it will probably be the same ol' same ol' for a long time to come.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

There is one other change I would like to see assuming what I've been told is correct. In Hilton's system, when I have wanted to exchange my HGVC points for a cruise, the value of the points equated essentially to the cost of my MF's as far as the discount for the cruise. I have not been charged an exchange fee to this point but there is a small "service" fee, which can also be paid for by points if there are enough of them.

When we've been pressed for being able to use all of our timeshare ownerships but have been able to get away for shorter cruise vacations (3, 4 or 5 night cruises), this has been a good way to salvage at least the value of our MF's for that year. It's not a great exchange but it's better than letting the unit go unused. I'd rather do this than go through the hassle of renting the unit out.

We should get our membership number in the next 30 days and that will allow me to better explore the options offered under Club Sunterra and see what value, or lack of value, there is in the system.