Announcement concerning Diamond Resorts International®

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

4BD - twice the 2 bedroom price. Makes sense.

For dougp's benefit, I've flown to Las Vegas and today met with the VP of HOA Relations. A different person than the VP referenced previously. They were also at the meeting though and confirmed that what was said was that they had done a 'study' and that MFs in the $1500 range are what a 4BR at Powhatan should have as annual fees. I guess I'd like to see the study.

Those units - really 2, 2 bedroom units with a common entrance as you know - had been a great value for the money while they were ranked with RCI. Now that the rankings are gone they still were a good value as you really could get two use weeks for one unit and not be depositing the tiny lock off section of a three bedroom.

It has apparently occurred to the new management that having fees for a unit like that priced at the average for a 3 bedroom really doesn't fit the value they have. Not to say it should be raised - it shouldn't as part of the appeal was the BIG place for a low price- but they can sure make a case that the reason they have not been able to keep them up to snuff may be the relatively low fees.

Since they are a single, deeded unit (in most cases) they may bump into the problems with a cap on annual fee increases if Virginia has that. In FL for example the fee can only go up a maximum of 15% unless an owner vote approves a higher number. Not all states do that.

In any case you can be sure that raising money from existing resorts will be high on the list of goals whenever a new group takes over. This doesn't sound any different but it is more aggressive than the norm.

[mace Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mace]

MFs in the $1500 range are what a 4BR at Powhatan should have as annual fees.

Look you can't have it both ways Stephen if the resort is given x number of points when it was not being cared for properly then if you increase the MFs an investment of the owners by twice as much, I would hope the value of the stay increases (sun options). Otherwise it is equivalent to taking value away from deeded owners (customers) pure and simple. In the past when a resort increased MFs it was in hopes of increasing trade value or rating as well as the quality of stay at the particular resort. Sunterra however does not increase trade value of their older resorts as in club points. Isn't that the real reason why you can't find much availability at some of the older resorts such as royal dunes, but we will soon see a ridiculous amount of Polo Tower units available. I think if you study the points Powhatan 4bd units are given points similar to that of quite a few 2bd units at comparable resorts, but it was okay because the MFs were just slightly higher. I'm thoughly unimpressed with DRI and in particular Mr. Cloobeck, I thought he wanted to increase our value he must have been talking to his shareholders not his owners.

A market approach to these sunoptions make more sense to me because I know from an availability standpoint wk 27 in hilton head in a 3 bd unit is worth more than any week in PoloTowers even with their coveted duvets that float you to sleep.

[winger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close winger]

Is it in any Club Sun, resort, or DRI bylaw that prevents changes in requirements sun option requirements to stay at a particular resort? I know w/ Worldmark, although nightly points per stay can change, the TOTAL points needed to stay per week (or month or year?) must remain the same. This is written into some bylaw, I think specific for a resort.

For example, if Mon-Thurs costs 100 pts to stay (totals 400 pts), and F-Sun costs 300 pts each nite (totals 900 pts), the weekly rate is 1300 pts (= 400pts + 900pts). If the resort decides to jack up Friday to 500 pts, then the pts required for the other nights must be rebalanced so at the end of the day, the weekly 'rate' is still 1300 pts.

[Ryne08 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ryne08]

If Diamond Resorts increases MF, will Powhatan Plantation be maint like a Marriott's Resort?

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

For dougp's benefit, I've flown to Las Vegas and today met with the VP of HOA Relations. A different person than the VP referenced previously. They were also at the meeting though and confirmed that what was said was that they had done a 'study' and that MFs in the $1500 range are what a 4BR at Powhatan should have as annual fees. I guess I'd like to see the study.

Is that double what they had been? If so then I would have to agree that $750 in MF for what was essentially two 2 bedroom units is a ridiculously low MF and could be why I've seen complaints as to the condition of Powhatan. Personally I have not seen the resort. I've only read some of the complaint here and was told by a Sunterra salesman when we were staying at Greensprings that it was a "dump." That comment, since Powhatan was a Sunterra sister resort in Williamsburg was a strong reason to not buy at that time.

Since they are a single, deeded unit (in most cases) they may bump into the problems with a cap on annual fee increases if Virginia has that. In FL for example the fee can only go up a maximum of 15% unless an owner vote approves a higher number. Not all states do that.

I wasn't aware that FL had a law that capped MF increases at 15%. It will be interesting if there is a state cap in VA or if there is a cap written into the HOA documents that limit the amount of any increase. I know that Polo Towers is suppose to have a set limit for increases but it's been reported that MF's are going to go up above that limit. Something was said about a "vote" by owners that had approved such an increase. The problem is, I'm an owner and am quite certain I never had the opportunity to vote for/against that proposal.

...... Sunterra however does not increase trade value of their older resorts as in club points.......

.....I'm thoughly unimpressed with DRI and in particular Mr. Cloobeck, I thought he wanted to increase our value he must have been talking to his shareholders not his owners.......

Only a couple of thoughts about your post. The old Sunterra might not have increased point values but, unless there is a rule prohibiting such an increase, how do you know DRI isn't planning on increasing point values required to stay at older resorts as they are brought up in quality?

Also, I thought (but could be wrong) that DRI was privately owned as in no stock holders. Am I incorrect in that assumption?

If Diamond Resorts increases MF, will Powhatan Plantation be maint like a Marriott's Resort?

Good question. I think the answer will be that the resorts will become nicer than they are now. My hope is that there will be consistant quality through out DRI and that it will be maintained. I'm not certain I'm ready to buy into them becoming as nice as the Marriott or Hilton products. I would be extremely pleased if they do.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

I've now made it to the Senior Vice President HOA Management Division ('regular' VPs must be a dime a dozen), a very impressive fellow, spent two hours with him. He's also the President of the Polo Towers Home Owners Associations and the fellow with the $1500 quote and it was on mark that is what it 'should' be if DRI/Sunterra HOA Management Division had their way. Will it be that way next year, don't bet on it?

I was shown old and new Polo Suites and the Polo Villas today. Very nice. The quality and appearance of sheets, towells, furnishings, yes and even Mr Cloobeck's duvets were very nice. Polo owners have paid for this but it appears that they are getting a quantum jump in the units.

DRI is a privately held company, there are no stockholders per se.

You won't see changes in points even if/when MFs are drastically changed. At Powhatan the new construction will be Deluxe units, they'll be valued more highly and are part of the Trust. These valuations will probably be in line with the valuation differences that you can see in the old and new units at a resort like Sedona Summit.

I was told that Mr Cloobeck is not in the business of downsizing. For example, the problems that closed marquis Villas have been resolved and their units there are back in business. While Cabo never happened, I was told that the resort was deemed not up to standards and to expensive to make it so, so Sunterra sold it and will be looking for other expansion in Mexico as PV and Mazatlan are really not their resorts (they're Vacation Internationale).

I have lots of guests at Powhatan and I would rather book a guest there than Greensprings. It is not a dump and overall, with no exageration, the complaints I get are less than 1% and are usually about a non renovated 2BR or a 3BR (renovated but the oldest buildings at the resort). There are fewer and fewer units that have not been renovated. I've personally stayed in both with no complaint.

[winger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close winger]

If Diamond Resorts increases MF, will Powhatan Plantation be maint like a Marriott's Resort?

Ha ha ha, are you kidding with this question? Answer - NEVER.

On a more serious note, if Mr. Cloobeck is SERIOUS at setting a real goal to improve the new DRI to Marriott/Westin-level quality, I would be the first to step up and offer my services to DRI as I truly believe this would be a major undertaking...a challenge which I would certainly be up for. Well, there are limits, so I would commit to a minimum of at least three years of my life and of course if the pay/benefits package at least matched my current job's.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

I've now made it to the Senior Vice President HOA Management Division ('regular' VPs must be a dime a dozen), a very impressive fellow, spent two hours with him. He's also the President of the Polo Towers Home Owners Associations and the fellow with the $1500 quote and it was on mark that is what it 'should' be if DRI/Sunterra HOA Management Division had their way. Will it be that way next year, don't bet on it?

I was shown old and new Polo Suites and the Polo Villas today. Very nice. The quality and appearance of sheets, towells, furnishings, yes and even Mr Cloobeck's duvets were very nice. Polo owners have paid for this but it appears that they are getting a quantum jump in the units.

DRI is a privately held company, there are no stockholders per se.

You won't see changes in points even if/when MFs are drastically changed. At Powhatan the new construction will be Deluxe units, they'll be valued more highly and are part of the Trust. These valuations will probably be in line with the valuation differences that you can see in the old and new units at a resort like Sedona Summit.

I was told that Mr Cloobeck is not in the business of downsizing. For example, the problems that closed marquis Villas have been resolved and their units there are back in business. While Cabo never happened, I was told that the resort was deemed not up to standards and to expensive to make it so, so Sunterra sold it and will be looking for other expansion in Mexico as PV and Mazatlan are really not their resorts (they're Vacation Internationale).

I have lots of guests at Powhatan and I would rather book a guest there than Greensprings. It is not a dump and overall, with no exageration, the complaints I get are less than 1% and are usually about a non renovated 2BR or a 3BR (renovated but the oldest buildings at the resort). There are fewer and fewer units that have not been renovated. I've personally stayed in both with no complaint.

I'm glad to hear from you that Powhatan is not as bad as some of the reports I've seen online. Why that particular salesman told us that they were a dump I can't say. If he was trying to impress me that buying retail at Greensprings would be better than buying Powhatan resale (I did not mention resale during the presnetation) then it backfired on him. Anytime a salesman uses such a term about a sister resort during a presentation, then for all intents and purposes the presentation ends at that moment. It's always bad enough when they run the compitition down but if they're will to run their own product down then I'm outta there.

We own a Skyview unit which was very similar to what the upgrades will be like. I agree that they are considerably better looking units than the original units. I haven't had the opportunity to see if the soft goods and electronics are being upgraded but I'm hoping that they are. We'll be in Vegas in a little over a week and I'm hoping to be able to be shown a renovated unit. I'm consious of people's time and don't want to be a pest but I am curious and would like to see what we own. We'll just have to see how busy they are when we hit town.

If the upgrades are exactly the same as the Skyview units then I really don't need to bother anyone since we've already seen them. At this time, I'm reasonably happy with joining Club Sun in that it's turned our Skyview Suites unit into a floating unit. When we originally purchased our fixed week 36, we thought it'd be a good week for us. Unfortunately Vegas is still to blasted hot for us the first part of Sept. (what were we thinking?) and we'd rather have had an October week. Now we should be able to reserve a week later in the year and have that view that got us to purchase in the first place.

At this point, I wonder if Mr. Cloobeck regrets letting Marriott brand the Grand Chateau? In hind site it might have been a better thing to develope and sell that property under the DRI logo. There had been plans for a joint venture with a casino company (Grand Casino?) to have a timeshare with a casino in it. Unfortunately those plans fell threw.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

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I was shown old and new Polo Suites and the Polo Villas today. Very nice. The quality and appearance of sheets, towells, furnishings, yes and even Mr Cloobeck's duvets were very nice. Polo owners have paid for this but it appears that they are getting a quantum jump in the units.

For the heck of it I thought I'd e-mail Polo Towers CS to see if I could arrange a time to stop by and check out one of the new renovated units or at least look at the model. We'll be in town starting the end of next week. I got an E-mail back saying they didn't have one for me to look at, that it was currently under construction. I guess communications still leave a lot to be desired since I know that you've been shown both the renovated suites unit and a villa's unit. I had hoped that I could start to trust what CS told me but apparently not yet.

I was skipping around the internet and noticed the picks on Hotels.com of the Villa's shows the old big screen rear projection CRT T.V.'s had been replaced by wide screen flat panel TV's. Did you by chance notice what sort of T.V.'s they had in the Villa's and was the pic I viewed on Hotels.com accurate?

It would be nice if they had replaced those TV's as the size of the room and how they were offset from the couch made them difficult to view with any clarity.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

For the heck of it I thought I'd e-mail Polo Towers CS to see if I could arrange a time to stop by and check out one of the new renovated units or at least look at the model. We'll be in town starting the end of next week. I got an E-mail back saying they didn't have one for me to look at, that it was currently under construction. I guess communications still leave a lot to be desired since I know that you've been shown both the renovated suites unit and a villa's unit. I had hoped that I could start to trust what CS told me but apparently not yet.

I was skipping around the internet and noticed the picks on Hotels.com of the Villa's shows the old big screen rear projection CRT T.V.'s had been replaced by wide screen flat panel TV's. Did you by chance notice what sort of T.V.'s they had in the Villa's and was the pic I viewed on Hotels.com accurate?

It would be nice if they had replaced those TV's as the size of the room and how they were offset from the couch made them difficult to view with any clarity.

While I was there with the General Manager, what I could only assume were 'tours' also came through the refurbished Suite and the Villa unit I saw.

It was flat screens pretty much everywhere.

[mace Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mace]

the $1500 quote and it was on mark that is what it 'should' be if DRI/Sunterra HOA Management Division had their way. Will it be that way next year, don't bet on it?

In the final analysis I have some additional property I was planning to move into the club at the end of the year, but I'm having second thoughts about the value involved, by my calc the MFs would be comparable to the current trust value of .073 dollars per point for my holiday week point value up to approximately 1100 for a 4bd at powhatan which is exactly what they would be in two years of 15% MF increases (832*.15 + 832) + .15*(832*.15 + 832) = 1100

It should be noted that an increase in Powhatan MFs will cause an additional increase on all Trust members fees albeit much less than the deeded owners as long as this doesn't take place at all of the resorts. If you don't mind paying 32% more in two years more power to you.

For instance I was approached by a friend to buy at the Owners Club at Homestead which has 3bd/3bath homes at the prestigeous homestead resort in Hot Springs, VA 4 weeks per year maintence fees $5000

I have 3 weeks at Powhatan 4bd rooms 1500 * 3 = 4500 dollars
I can't understand how the study decided that they need 4500 for my 3 weeks while the people at homestead needs 5000 for 4 weeks.

Does anyone know when they will announce next years maintence fees. And if Powhatan is going up what about Greensprings I own there as well and that is an even better value from a club point of view, I can't believe they would leave that at 767 and increase Powhatan by anything significant.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Mace,
I don't know for sure but it is getting interesting to say the least. My bet (hope) would be by at least November so people could make plans for the holidays. I know PT's MF's need to go up as they're only putting $49 (I know it's less then $50 but I'm not looking at them right now) in capital reserves and it's going to take more than that to maintain the resort. They should have been going up over the last several years but, instead of raising the MF's they kept them the same. They did this in part of lowering what was going into the cap. res. fund. I might have made owners happy to see their MF's stay the same but I'm pretty certain no one was happy with the big SA they got hit with.

Spence,

I love how PT's seems to be able to take sales tours through to see the units but if an owner contacts CS they're told there aren't any of the renovated units completed for owners to look at. I believe Mr. Cloobeck when he says things are going to improve but it just seems as if there are so many holes that it's going to be very tough to get them all plugged in short order. It still appears to me the right hand doesn't always know what the left hand is doing.

Information about DRI's buyout of Sunterra was slow in coming. In fact, Troy at PT's told me that the buyout had nothing to do with PT's owners, there would be no benefit to PT's owners and that things would just continue as the way they were. Not weeks later I learn through these BB's that DRI was in fact making offers to PT's owners to join Club Sun and that PT's was in fact becoming part of Club Sun.

Granted he might not have been able to have know that at the time of my communication but, it was not the most responsible thing to be telling owners that nothing was going to change. He probably should have said they were waiting to see if there would be any change forth coming and that as soon as they knew, they'd be letting us know as well.

Sometimes it's all in how things are said as well as how they are done. I've come to expect missinformation of the past several years. Which is why I'm always a skeptic first when it comes to DRI. All the players never seem to be on the same page. If customer service is to be a priorty, this will have to change.

At any rate I'm glad to see they've changed the TV's out since I was last there, which I believe was 2005. Those old rear projection TV's had been in the unit since they were built and should have been getting somewhat old. I know they were pretty dated and had a rather low quality picture by today's standards.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

This whole discussion brings to mind a Washington Irving aphorism that I've used on many occasions:

There is a certain relief in change, though it be from bad to worse. As I have often discovered when riding a stage coach cross-country it is a comfort to shift one's position and be bruised in a new location.

[winger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close winger]

...At any rate I'm glad to see they've changed the TV's out since I was last there, which I believe was 2005. Those old rear projection TV's had been in the unit since they were built and should have been getting somewhat old. I know they were pretty dated and had a rather low quality picture by today's standards.

I stayed in tower 2 in Jun and we really enjoyed the good-ol tube tv's !

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

I stayed in tower 2 in Jun and we really enjoyed the good-ol tube tv's !

They work fine but, if you want to be an elite resort then HD wide screen flat panel TV's are the only way to go.