Diamond Resorts International f/k/a Sunterra NEW TRANSFER FEES

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

It's official - $250 to transfer any of their Trusts.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

What was it before?

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

What was it before?

Free, maybe 6 months ago in a post, I indicated that this was coming, why it took so long, I dunno.

[winger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close winger]

Free, maybe 6 months ago in a post, I indicated that this was coming, why it took so long, I dunno.

it's summer. maybe people are relaxing

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Free, maybe 6 months ago in a post, I indicated that this was coming, why it took so long, I dunno.

So how much longer do you think it will be before they add on an internal exchange fee for THE Club members? I could see them tacking on a fee for THE Club members but keeping internal exchanges with The Trust resorts free. They would then be able to use this as a reason for people to move their deeds into the trust rather than hanging onto individual deeds.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

So how much longer do you think it will be before they add on an internal exchange fee for THE Club members? I could see them tacking on a fee for THE Club members but keeping internal exchanges with The Trust resorts free. They would then be able to use this as a reason for people to move their deeds into the trust rather than hanging onto individual deeds.

It is a shame that people seem to be willing to led down the path to giving up their deeds and paying for the privilege without thinking through what they are doing. Basically handing virtually all control to the developer and trusting that they'll like the results. It's even worse than those who simply buy into the trust who at least don't give up rights and ownership they've come to know.

As I've stated many times for me nothing but a deeded property is acceptable. No RTU, no Trusts - a deed in hand. Call me old fashioned but I want that small amount of security and, in this case, the ability to hang on to what I paid for without worrying a billing error somewhere will get my membership booted. When it costs them time and money to foreclose they take it much more seriously.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

It is a shame that people seem to be willing to led down the path to giving up their deeds and paying for the privilege without thinking through what they are doing. Basically handing virtually all control to the developer and trusting that they'll like the results. It's even worse than those who simply buy into the trust who at least don't give up rights and ownership they've come to know.

As I've stated many times for me nothing but a deeded property is acceptable. No RTU, no Trusts - a deed in hand. Call me old fashioned but I want that small amount of security and, in this case, the ability to hang on to what I paid for without worrying a billing error somewhere will get my membership booted. When it costs them time and money to foreclose they take it much more seriously.

All you've got to do is say weeks is great and points suck and we can call you Carolinian. LOL.

My WorldMark account (the ultimate in non-deeded), is better than any deeded week I've ever owned. Works better, trades better, holds it value better, gives me better features and is far more liquid. I can get in and out of it at any time. And, the benefits of such an ownership are so dramatically better than a deeded week that it's like comparing a fork to a swiss army knife in terms of features and functions.

A truism in timesharing is that ownerships depreciate in value. That's because ALL HOAs adopt policies that depreciate the ownerships over time. And, the decline is actually pretty slow and predictable. Predictable enough where you can model the economics of it over a 5 to 10 year period. Then, you can invoke some simple strategies to blow away the cost of renting. It's much easier to do is the "so-called" non-deeded ownerships than the deeded ones.

[dale7 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dale7]

I have deeded property in DRI and that why I pay for club is so I do not have to pay for internal trades, as long as DRI is trying to get people to join I do not see any changes.

[julieab Member Find all posts View Profile Close julieab]

So how much longer do you think it will be before they add on an internal exchange fee for THE Club members? I could see them tacking on a fee for THE Club members but keeping internal exchanges with The Trust resorts free. They would then be able to use this as a reason for people to move their deeds into the trust rather than hanging onto individual deeds.

Oh, goodness! Please don't give them any ideas!

But sadly, if this happened, I would not be surprised. It's rather brilliant, and I can't think of anything stopping them (what with the recent $70 club dues hike!). Would anyone (deeded club owners) be inclined to drop out of the club at that point, I wonder? I'm just a small owner, so I think I might reconsider.

[dwmantz Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dwmantz]

For those readers not totally up on the nuances of this system . . . within Sunterra/Diamond, there is a hybrid approach to joining "The Club" without loosing your deeds. That method is called assignment. When an owner joins The Club, instead of converting his/her deeds to points in a trust, they can simply assign those deeds to "The Club" in exchange for the same points. In this manner, an owner can have their cake and eat it too!

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

For those readers not totally up on the nuances of this system . . . within Sunterra/Diamond, there is a hybrid approach to joining "The Club" without loosing your deeds. That method is called assignment. When an owner joins The Club, instead of converting his/her deeds to points in a trust, they can simply assign those deeds to "The Club" in exchange for the same points. In this manner, an owner can have their cake and eat it too!

Which is what we've done. THE Club is considerably more flexible than just owning weeks.

But, I see DRI as a control company wanting to be able to do what it wants to do with it's resorts when it wants to do it without owner interference. Trust setups allow that to happen whereas deeded ownerships give the owners some rights. DRI doesn't even need all of the units to be in the trust. Only the majority needed to control the HOA/BOD.

I'll give you one example of why such a system may be bad for owners. There is a company proposing to build a casino/hotel on the land in front of Polo Towers. There is a height restriction on the property in front of Polo Towers. The company that owns the land in front of Polo Towers claims that there is a provision that allows for that height restriction to be bought out, allowing them to build in front of Polo Towers blocking the view. If this requires a vote of the owners and, if the management at DRI deems the money good enough and if they have control of the vote, the strip view I paid for back in 1999 could be sold out from under me with no recourse.

THAT, is just one example of what trusting your management company with to much control can get you. It might not even be the present ownership that does this to you. It could be even be a management company that buys out DRI somewhere down the road.

Giving to much control to ANY management company is a bad thing if only because you never know who that management company will be at some future point. Money talks and Westgate has money. How would any of us feel if a trust set up we owned in suddenly came under Westgate mangement?

I might agree that a points based reservation system is great but I can not agree that a trust based ownership system is anything other than a problem waiting to happen.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

For those readers not totally up on the nuances of this system . . . within Sunterra/Diamond, there is a hybrid approach to joining "The Club" without loosing your deeds. That method is called assignment. When an owner joins The Club, instead of converting his/her deeds to points in a trust, they can simply assign those deeds to "The Club" in exchange for the same points. In this manner, an owner can have their cake and eat it too!

Bluegreen has had the same mechanism in the past. They stopped doing the assignments, though, because they prefer to have all deeds in a trust.

What it does is makes for very confusing transfer rules.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Which is what we've done. THE Club is considerably more flexible than just owning weeks.

But, I see DRI as a control company wanting to be able to do what it wants to do with it's resorts when it wants to do it without owner interference. Trust setups allow that to happen whereas deeded ownerships give the owners some rights. DRI doesn't even need all of the units to be in the trust. Only the majority needed to control the HOA/BOD.

I'll give you one example of why such a system may be bad for owners. There is a company proposing to build a casino/hotel on the land in front of Polo Towers. There is a height restriction on the property in front of Polo Towers. The company that owns the land in front of Polo Towers claims that there is a provision that allows for that height restriction to be bought out, allowing them to build in front of Polo Towers blocking the view. If this requires a vote of the owners and, if the management at DRI deems the money good enough and if they have control of the vote, the strip view I paid for back in 1999 could be sold out from under me with no recourse.

THAT, is just one example of what trusting your management company with to much control can get you. It might not even be the present ownership that does this to you. It could be even be a management company that buys out DRI somewhere down the road.

Giving to much control to ANY management company is a bad thing if only because you never know who that management company will be at some future point. Money talks and Westgate has money. How would any of us feel if a trust set up we owned in suddenly came under Westgate mangement?

I might agree that a points based reservation system is great but I can not agree that a trust based ownership system is anything other than a problem waiting to happen.

I hear this argument all the time. I don't share the concern to the same extent others do. I think those who hold the view that deeded weeks are better completely over estimate their power. You are powerless either way. You always need to trust your management company whenever they control the board. That can happen in deeded weeks and in trusts. Any unethical developer can screw up a recorded deed timeshare just as much as it can a trust. The bottom line is that you need to trust the management of the resort group.

[dwmantz Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dwmantz]

I agree completely. And you hit the real problem on the head. The management company (Diamond in this case) controls the majority of the votes in the trusts and at the resorts (both deeds and points). We owners (either deeds or points) only have what "show" of control Diamond lets us have - ie; a token owner with nio real power on an otherwise totally company controlled board.

The only hope at all that we have, is that their self interest is good for our interest. If that is not the case, our only recourse is to sell!

So far, Diamond's doing OK by me.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

The only difference is that owners can and do take control from a developer if they feel the developer is not managing the resort the way they would like. Take Jockey Club for instance. They did not like DRI's management style and fired them.

With a trust based ownership, it's the trust which controls who is managing the resorts. Owners have no control and have no mechanism for gaining control. They just along for the ride. Rules can be changed at the whim of the developer manager whereas with deeded weeks it takes a vote of the owners.

In the end, it will not matter with DRI whether you have a deeded week or a trust week. DRI will convert enough deeded weeks or sell enough trust based weeks in all the resorts they manage so that they'll have control. Owners, deeded or trust, will just be along for the ride. The only difference will be the way MF's are charged. Trust owners will be an average of all the resorts in the trust while deeded weeks will be based soley on the resorts they own at.

So long as Stephen Cloobeck is in charge, I'm not really all that worried. I feel like a I have decent line on the direction he will take. The resorts DRI manages will be of a particular quality and the MF's will match that quality. I can live comfortably with that level of quality and I'm willing to pay for it, so long as the MF's and quality match up.

What does bother me is Mr. Cloobeck started DRI, then essentially abandoned DRI for other interests. IMO DRI floundered during his absence. If that were to happen again and, with the trust allowing whomever is in charge to do whatever they want to do without owner approval, I don't see that as a good thing.

At this time I've owned my Polo Towers weeks for 10 years. If I get another good 5 to 10 years out of them I'll consider myself in decent shape if I feel the need to sell. With any luck I'll get another 10 to 15 years of good value from these two weeks. At any rate, I do feel their value has increased since DRI offered us the opportunity to join THE Club and convert our deeded weeks into a points based reservation system. If DRI keeps adding quality resorts that have good internal exchange opporutities it will be a better deal. If I'm able to exchange my DRI points for high quality resorts like Westin, Starwood and Marriott it's a good deal. If I can get the exchanges I want and use the left over points for other services or to reduce my MF's then it's a great deal.