Decided not to convert

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

Dri Weeks Vs The Club!

I have a hard time understanding why DRI doesn't want to diversified their products. Why not sell both Deeded Weeks and "The Club."

Why doesn't it appear that DRI wants to have The Club co-exist with the Weeks Owners?

According to their own web site numbers, "Diamond Resorts owns approximately 7.8% of the inventory and the Diamond Resorts Hawaii Collection owns just over 18.9%. Traditional (Weeks) owners compromise about 73.3% of Ka'anapali Beach Club ownership.

So, how many of the other DRI's Resorts have similar number?

How many years will it take to convert 73.3% of the KBC owners to The Club?

I want to only use and keep my Deeded Week at KBC. I'm sure that there are many other Weeks owners that only want to use their Week at KBC.

Can anyone give me a reason why I would be better off giving my Deeded Week to The Club and paying them Thousands of Dollars to become a Club member instead?



Walt

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I have a hard time understanding why DRI doesn't want to diversified their products. Why not sell both Deeded Weeks and "The Club."

Why doesn't it appear that DRI wants to have The Club co-exist with the Weeks Owners?

According to their own web site numbers, "Diamond Resorts owns approximately 7.8% of the inventory and the Diamond Resorts Hawaii Collection owns just over 18.9%. Traditional (Weeks) owners compromise about 73.3% of Ka'anapali Beach Club ownership.

So, how many of the other DRI's Resorts have similar number?

How many years will it take to convert 73.3% of the KBC owners to The Club?

I want to only use and keep my Deeded Week at KBC. I'm sure that there are many other Weeks owners that only want to use their Week at KBC.

Can anyone give me a reason why I would be better off giving my Deeded Week to The Club and paying them Thousands of Dollars to become a Club member instead?



Walt

You're not better off. Club makes sense only if you want to stay at different resorts.

I think of the Club as an alternate to being in an exchange company. For us there is a reasonably good overlay between places we are interested in visiting and club locations. It's quite a bit easier to secure reservations and make plans for visiting other resorts through the club than it is trying to do exchanges.

That, in essence, is the advantage for any mini-system.

But for someone who owns to use at the same resort all of the time, it doesn't make any sense to pay extra to join the club.

[Werner Member Find all posts View Profile Close Werner]

Why not sell both Deeded Weeks and "The Club."

When DRI sells a deeded week they are losing control of that week. Even deeded week buyers who "assign" their deeds to the Club for points still vote for HOA members every year, still have rights to a unit/week in their category irrespective of the points assigned, and still are registered as owners with the state.

The trust keeps DRI in control. DRI is not a "developer" in the traditional sense of the word, they don't intent to sell out a resort and move on. The trust is a way of maintaining control of all the deeded weeks in the trust and thus continuous control of the HOA since they will always be the largest voting block even after selling 100% of the units. They vote every share while individual owners are lousy at voting. The trust is also a captive market for future "upgrades".

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

When DRI sells a deeded week they are losing control of that week. Even deeded week buyers who "assign" their deeds to the Club for points still vote for HOA members every year, still have rights to a unit/week in their category irrespective of the points assigned, and still are registered as owners with the state.

The trust keeps DRI in control. DRI is not a "developer" in the traditional sense of the word, they don't intent to sell out a resort and move on. The trust is a way of maintaining control of all the deeded weeks in the trust and thus continuous control of the HOA since they will always be the largest voting block even after selling 100% of the units. They vote every share while individual owners are lousy at voting. The trust is also a captive market for future "upgrades".

Pretty much my thoughts on DRI at this moment. DRI is not a developer so much as it's a management company with a sales force that's churning old business.

Maybe DRI will eventually build new resorts. Let's face it, they had quite the situation when they bought out Sunterra and, they hadn't built a new resort since Polo Towers. Right now isn't exactly the best time to be throwing millions of dollars at a new timeshare project. Not when money's tight and people would have trouble coming up with loans. Even the biggest developers have scalled back the rate at which they're buildling new resorts or the speed at which existing projects were projected to be built. Any developer would be hard pressed to start a new project in this environment.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

I Understand The Main Reason Is Contol.

I think I understand how DRI is trying to get Weeks Owners to convert into The Club. I also think I understand why they want to do it.

Just check how much they have increased the MF in the UK to such numbers that makes timesharing a very costly way to do on a Vacation (Holiday). And there is no way to not pay the MF. With the high cost of the MF there are no buyers.

I understand that with "The Club and the Trust", DRI has total control.

My question is:

Is it possible for DRI to convert all Deeded Weeks Owners into The Club in a short 3 to 5 year time period?

By the way I do have a question about The Club Rules and Regulations When they sold The Club to you, did you really read The Club Rules and Regulations before you bought into the Club?

Walt

PS

If this was any other "open end contract" for anything else, would you really sign it?

Like agreeing to pay rent on a building with no set rental rates and no end to the contract and the lessor can change andything in the contract at any time?

2.1.3 All Members of THE ClubSM shall be bound by the terms of these Club
Rules upon becoming a Member.

2.1.7 These Club Rules may be modified or deleted and additional rules may
be added by Club Operating Company from time to time which the
Club Operating Company in its sole discretion determines will be for
the principal purpose of improving upon the quality and operation of
the Points system and furthering the collective enjoyment of the use of
Accommodations and Other Redemption Opportunities by present and
future Members as a whole.

When DRI sells a deeded week they are losing control of that week. Even deeded week buyers who "assign" their deeds to the Club for points still vote for HOA members every year, still have rights to a unit/week in their category irrespective of the points assigned, and still are registered as owners with the state.

The trust keeps DRI in control. DRI is not a "developer" in the traditional sense of the word, they don't intent to sell out a resort and move on. The trust is a way of maintaining control of all the deeded weeks in the trust and thus continuous control of the HOA since they will always be the largest voting block even after selling 100% of the units. They vote every share while individual owners are lousy at voting. The trust is also a captive market for future "upgrades".

[sillyme Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sillyme]

diamond conversion offer

Greetings:
I'm glad for all the comments. Spence, I understand you are a DI Club member. From what I have read, I didn't think they would let you bring other TSs into ClubSelect without buying extra points from them. Is this true? Also, I have heard of people negotiating the right to bring other TS into ClubSelect for a 12 month period....i.e. giving you the opportunity to buy some cheap TSs with "reasonable" MFs and add them to ClubSelect. Also, so the ClubSelect pts. count towards elite Club status?
My biggest concern is the high MF with the conversion, and the future possibility that all the "sellling pts" (59 day reservations & ClubSelect) will go away or not be as good as they imply.
Thanks,
Tom

[Werner Member Find all posts View Profile Close Werner]

By the way I do have a question about The Club Rules and Regulations When they sold The Club to you, did you really read The Club Rules and Regulations before you bought into the Club?

Yes, we read every line of every document, both of us independently, within the 7 day rescission window. (Spending our first Hawaiian vacation in 20 years reading legal mumbo-jumbo was not fun.) I had and still have no serious objections to anything in the Club rules (it was Sunterra then). I use certain features of the Club more than others, we use the rollover option, the elite upgrades, and occasionally trade although we are somewhat disappointed in II points trading. Trading to KBC within DRI was the best trade we've done and we expect to do that again every few years.

But the Club was a secondary part of the transaction. We liked our home resort at Poipu and still do. It is where we spend most but not all of our TS time. We understood what maintenance fees were when we bought and like most folks we are a bit frosted about recent increases. Still, the maintenance fees are about $200/day and that is not much for a 2 BR condo in Hawaii.

As long at the Club continues to function as it does we have no serious gripes. However, if DRI starts fiddling the rules in ways that reduce its usefulness to us or raises its club dues to a level beyond the Club's value to us our most likely course of action is to quit the club and simply use our deeded weeks like the 50% of the other deeded week owners at Poipu use them. We could always join II or RCI with individual accounts and occasionally trade weeks the old fashioned way. Spending more money to convert into a trust makes no sense to me.

The Club does not play as prominent a role in a deeded week unit as it does with a trust week. DRI does not have the authority to be quite as arbitrary with deeded owners as it seems to have with trust shareholders. It is a bit worrisome that 5 or 10 years down the road DRI could reduce the pool of deeded owners to the point that it would be hard to operate a float system within that pool but somehow I don't think it is going to happen. Deeded owners are already owners and therefore are not new-to-timesharing-uninformed-patsies. I don't think I care whether DRI ever sells another deeded week out of their inventory as long as the existing pool of deeded weeks remains reasonably large.

[sillyme Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sillyme]

DRI clarification

Thanks for the comments.
As to the extra MF for the 1500 pts they want us to buy.... I was told that the "base" MF for pts. was $415 & this included the trust admin. fee, the DRI fee, and the II fee. I assume this is everything & includes the "Club" fee. I realize that it costs $119/year for each TS brought in under ClubSelect.
Also, they are not asking for my deed, just an assignment for pts., similar to what RCI pts. does, I believe.
They told me that 80% of the owners at the Sedona Ridge have signed up for "the Club." With that high of a %, I am worried that the non-Club owners will have less flexibility with reservations in the future. So far we haven't had a problem; however, when we did searches on the DRI system, it looked like we could get consecutive weeks within the 59 day period using 50% normal rates. I'm guessing this may last for awhile because DRI has about 5-6 resorts in Sedona, the main ones being the Ridge & Summit.
A minor benefit of converting will be that the check-in staff might finally leave us alone when we arrive & not hound us for a "friendly update." They make you feel like you are a second class citizen if you are not part of the
"Club."

[deb335 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close deb335]

Tom,
I would no way agree to buy 1500 points for $5200.
The longer you hold out the better the offer will get. Even though we are the ones who ultimately "decided not to convert" to DRI, we had an offer of $2995 conversion rate, plus 1000 points for $1000.
When we told them no after reading the contract, they even dropped the 1000 points and offered a straight conversion, which as you have read they will tell you does not exist!
They will insist you have to buy points to convert so that they can collect the yearly trust fees even if you keep your deeded week.

Also when we first agreed, they collected a 10% deposit, and charged our card in two days. They told me if I changed my mind I would be credited in 7-10 days. When we did not recieve the credit and I called they told me it takes 4-6 weeks for a credit to appear on my card! I told the "hospitality manager", the person who receives any emails to the CEO, that she had 4 days to apply the credit or I would go to the BBB. I did file a complaint(their 28th in 1 1/2 years), but the credit did appear within a week. FYI, DRI has a B- rating with the BBB.

[deb335 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close deb335]

I doubt if the $415 includes the Club Fee.
When we recieved our written contract the pricing for 2009 for 1000 points was $517.

[sillyme Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sillyme]

Dri

I'm not paying $5200 for just 1500 pts., the price includes the "assignment" of my 1 BR Ridge for 6500 pts. So, if I am correct, I'm paying 5200-2995= 2205 for the 1500 pts., or $1.47 per pt. When the dust settles, if I go along with it, I will have @$1100/yr MF for 8,000 pts. & still have my deed to the Ridge. Also will have ability to add Australian TS to ClubSelect for an additional 8500 pts. (costs $119/yr) for a total of 16,500 pts.
Since they were trashing RCI pts., I decided to do a short search on "weeks" res. for AZ & Hawaii, & came up with a 1 BR at Ridge for 6/5-6/12 for only 7500 pts. & a 2BR at Paniolo Greens in Waikola HI for 9,000 pts. Not too bad since my Aus. TS gives me 64,200 pts/yr
I will check to see if the above $1100 MF includes the "Club" membership. I think it does.
Regards,
Tom

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Greetings:
I'm glad for all the comments. Spence, I understand you are a DI Club member. From what I have read, I didn't think they would let you bring other TSs into ClubSelect without buying extra points from them. Is this true? Also, I have heard of people negotiating the right to bring other TS into ClubSelect for a 12 month period....i.e. giving you the opportunity to buy some cheap TSs with "reasonable" MFs and add them to ClubSelect. Also, so the ClubSelect pts. count towards elite Club status?
My biggest concern is the high MF with the conversion, and the future possibility that all the "sellling pts" (59 day reservations & ClubSelect) will go away or not be as good as they imply. Thanks, Tom

• The scenario you describe first was not about Club Select, it was about buying other DRI property and adding to your Club account.
• Club Select does not perform like Wyndham's PIC, you do not get 'credit' towards Elite.
• Everything is subject to change in THE Club and the 59day window is not the end all be all that they tell you about.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

On the subject of DRI wanting to take control of HOA/BOD's, I've had the thought that, if that was really their intent, wouldn't they make owners offers that would be very hard to refuse? Why attempt to force the issue of buying additional points to convert? Why make owners fight to convert what they have for the flat rate of $2,995? Why attempt to keep resale owners out by not letting them put their purchased units into one of the DRI trusts? If control was the issue, why not just encourage everyone to convert either for free of for a very low entry fee of $300 to $500 without any hassle? How about converting everyone into one big trust of all the DRI managed resorts, getting everyone under ONE management structure rather than THE Club and a Trust manager and reduce costs?

If they really thought about it, this would be a great way to raise cash fast, have better control over HOA/BOD decisions by controling the board and, make it easier for their salesmen to sell smaller packages that could be custom tailored to fit individual needs. If you ask me, if it this really was an issue of trying to gain control, they'd have been offering conversions for very little money, and making it look like the greatest thing since sliced bread. Heck, if they'd have been doing it that way when we joined THE Club, had MF's under control and offered only ONE fee rather than two, it might have been tempting to join a trust rather than THE Club. Even from a resale prespective, if I could sell what I owned and the new owner wouldn't have to fight with DRI to gain access to all DRI managed resorts, it would increase my value AND keep the inventory in the internal exchange pool. IMHO, this would be a win-win situation for both DRI and owners.

[sillyme Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close sillyme]

DRI at the Ridge in Sedona

I suppose my biggest concern is if what they say about reduced flexibility of reservations for weeks owners in the future is correct. They told me that 80% of the Ridge owners have converted. I have called the weeks reservation person & she was not able to confirm or deny this.
The deal I signed on Tues. for $5200 would give me 8,000 pts. in the Club (6500 for the 1BR assignment + an extra 1500 pts) with a MF of 1100 that I think includes everything + the ability to pay $119/yr to bring my Australian resort in for an additional 8500 pts/yr. If I understand you correctly, the 8500 pts. for the Aus. TS will not count towards elite status.
BTW, out of curiosity, I did a short time search w. RCI pts. for AZ & HI & came up w. a 1BR at the Ridge (6/5-6/12) for 7500 pts. & a 2BR at Paniolo Greens in Waikola, HI (5/16-5/23) for 9,000 pts.
I'm having a hard time justifying the $1100/yr MF for 8,000 pts. Need to do more math.
Thanks.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Thanks for the comments.
A minor benefit of converting will be that the check-in staff might finally leave us alone when we arrive & not hound us for a "friendly update." They make you feel like you are a second class citizen if you are not part of the
"Club."

I hate to burst you're bubble but, they'll ALWAYS want you to do an "owners update." We're members of THE Club and they called us last week to schedule our owners update pre-arrival. DRI has always called owners priort to their arrival for an update/sales meeting. I'm certain the highest percentage group of prospects comes from current owners returning to vacation at a DRI resort.

This isn't really anything new. Marriott's Newport Coast Villa's contacted us approx. 1 month before we were scheduled to arrive. At Marriott's Barony Beach Club, they sent a "personal conseirge" by our unit to invite us to attend a presentation. I've had other timeshare companies call us before arrival but, it's not the norm.

Timeshare developers will ALWAYS want you to attend just one more owners update. It's how they do business.