Greenspring Annual Meeting

[dwmantz Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dwmantz]

Greensprings Annual Meeting – Sun Mar 29, 2pm to 4pm

Ms Linda Riddle, VP DRI presiding. I counted 42 non-DRI present. Factoring in couples, I come up with only 25 owners present.

Greensprings, like Powhatan, is still under developer control until 90% of the units are sold. Since 300 units were provisioned for and only 148 now built, this will probably not change in the foreseeable future. 148 units makes Greensprings approx 1/3 the size of Powhatan. Capital Reserves are at $665,000 at the end of 2008 and will go to 1.2 million by the end of 2009. There was an operating loss of $232,000 in 2008. Reserves also decreased by $232,000 from 2007. Mgt believes Greensprings will be RCI Gold Crown by the end of 2009. Housekeeping is now totally outsourced.

2008 Accomplishments – new mattresses, linens, and IPOD clock radios, resurfacing of both indoor and outdoor pool decks, all new pool and unit patio furniture, underwater pool lights replaced, etc.

2009 Plans – replace all vcrs with dvd players, remove all unit wallpaper and repaint, new flat screen tvs in 32 keys, new SEER HVAC in 32 keys, new outdoor portable movie screen for evening family movies (shared with Powhatan)

Total occupancy is 66%. 56% use is by Club, 17% is exchange, 19% is rentals, and 8% is owner occupied.

DRI’s master liability policy saved the resort $106,000 in 2008.

Beginning in 2006, Greensprings signed a Bad Debt Collection Agreement with DRI. DRI pays off all bad debt and collection fees. This was $880,000 from 2006 to 2008. $468,000 is projected for 2009. The association is able to budget full receipt of all MFs. In return, DRI gets all debt collected, all fees to collect that debt, and puts any recovered assets into the Trust product for later resale.

By year-end, it is highly possible that Greensprings will have a dual II affiliation so that deeded weeks owners can also trade through II without having to become members of the Club.

Overall, professionally done and good information. It was essentially the same report as Powhatan’s meeting on Saturday with the numbers and a few items changed.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

32 keys should = only 16 four bedroom units by years end. So that's what, two buildings out of how many? At that pace, it's going to take a long time to renovate every single unit. In order to pick up the pace, DRI will either need to increase MF's significantly again for 2010 or the HOA/BOD will need to consider a SA to cover the entire resort while keeping MF's that same.

Do NOT read into this a condemnation of DRI. Rather, the previous management team from Sunterra did a very poor job of collecting the necessary MF's, keeping them artifically low in order to make MF's look good so they could sell more units.

[mace Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mace]

Whoa maintence fees increases again

$1100*52=$57,200 for one year 4 bedroom

$57,200*4=$228,800 lets pretend the units will be upgraded every 4th year.

Thats what they get now at the very least for their units, if everyone owned 4bedroom units. I understand that employees factor in and cleaning etc... not to mention some of the money doesn't stay at the resort. But come on if DRI can't manage a resort with these fees they are clowns.

By the way 800/1100*228,800 is still 165000 I'll buy you some sheets, towells, a mattras or two, furniture, flatscreen, plates, kitchen appliances, etc. for either price.

Look at all the timeshares with lower fees that are managed by HOA and come back and talk to me. Sorry for my anger, but I was just in Williamsburg I watched 3 people at the front desk waste about 20 minutes of my time while 1 person actually checked in people. Working for diamond looks like working for the state of federal government, no accountability.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Keep in mind I'm just making assumptions and have no evidence that they'll actually increase. However, when Polo Towers MF's run $900 to $1,000 for two bedroom units and, seeing that these resorts appear to be getting some serious upgrades, It woudn't surprise me to see 4 bedroom units MF's running closer to $2,000/year than $1,000. In my mind, that's really were DRI will need them to be in order to maintain the resort and upgrade the units their their standards.

Not that it's a big thing but, most units are sold on a 51 week basis leaving 1 week each year unoccupied for major maintenance issues.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Keep in mind I'm just making assumptions and have no evidence that they'll actually increase. However, when Polo Towers MF's run $900 to $1,000 for two bedroom units and, seeing that these resorts appear to be getting some serious upgrades, It woudn't surprise me to see 4 bedroom units MF's running closer to $2,000/year than $1,000. In my mind, that's really were DRI will need them to be in order to maintain the resort and upgrade the units their their standards.

Not that it's a big thing but, most units are sold on a 51 week basis leaving 1 week each year unoccupied for major maintenance issues.

When DRI took over, one of the now current BOD members said that back then Greensprings and Powhatan 4BR MFs should have already been $1500, so I can easily see them being there and up to your estimates in the next few years. It takes money to run a quality resort and it's not just the unit renovations etc that play into this. Let's hope that Mr. Cloobecks vision of being THE name in timeshare means that he understands what owners want and need.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

By year-end, it is highly possible that Greensprings will have a dual II affiliation so that deeded weeks owners can also trade through II without having to become members of the Club.

I found this quite interesting as a dual affiliation would obviate the salesman's conversion argument that you need to convert to THE Club to have access to II. Many, many people think that because they see Powhatan and Greensprings in both RCI and II catalogs that weeks owners can deposit with II. Today they cannot, but that may change as indicated above. When queried about this, DRI said we'll be dual affiliating Powhatan and Greensprings in the best interest of the weeks owners.

Additionally it was stated by the meeting moderator that DRI does BULK BANK with RCI. We know they do that with the points inventory in II, but there is no float time sold at Powhatan or Greensprings, so it had been hard to understand the bulk bankings that Lawren2 had seen appear (and disappear) in RCI. DRI predicts what the demand for deposits will be for the weeks owners and bulk banks. Now if they happened to bank your fixed week and you decide to use UNIT# 22 Week# 22, then they have enough slop that they just shift around inventory to match. When the moderator was asked, what about the loss of TRADE POWER that results from Bulk Banking, they said that the person who asked the question was WRONG, there is no loss. Later I heard one of the BOD members say that there might be a loss of trade power but only a select few would notice it, and the majority of owners who late deposit actually benefit from the bulk banking.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

I found this quite interesting as a dual affiliation would obviate the salesman's conversion argument that you need to convert to THE Club to have access to II. Many, many people think that because they see Powhatan and Greensprings in both RCI and II catalogs that weeks owners can deposit with II. Today they cannot, but that may change as indicated above. When queried about this, DRI said we'll be dual affiliating Powhatan and Greensprings in the best interest of the weeks owners.

Additionally it was stated by the meeting moderator that DRI does BULK BANK with RCI. We know they do that with the points inventory in II, but there is no float time sold at Powhatan or Greensprings, so it had been hard to understand the bulk bankings that Lawren2 had seen appear (and disappear) in RCI. DRI predicts what the demand for deposits will be for the weeks owners and bulk banks. Now if they happened to bank your fixed week and you decide to use UNIT# 22 Week# 22, then they have enough slop that they just shift around inventory to match. When the moderator was asked, what about the loss of TRADE POWER that results from Bulk Banking, they said that the person who asked the question was WRONG, there is no loss. Later I heard one of the BOD members say that there might be a loss of trade power but only a select few would notice it, and the majority of owners who late deposit actually benefit from the bulk banking.

Two things I can say.

One is that DRI really doesn't seem to like RCI. That's fine by me. I don't like RCI either. I believe that if DRI could, they'd get all of their weeks into I.I. I'm not sure what sort of deal I.I. cuts with major developers but it must be a pretty decent deal. Other than DVC and Hilton, I believe every other major developer is with Interval.

The other thing is that I have yet to see anyone related to developing or selling timeshares that has a good handle on the concept of trade power. I can't tell you how many times I've been told that all weeks have the same exchange power. One red week is the same as any other red week. I've heard it so many times, I don't bother with them anymore.

[mace Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mace]

Skepticism Dead?

Polo Towers MF's run $900 to $1,000 for two bedroom units and, seeing that these resorts appear to be getting some serious upgrades, It woudn't surprise me to see 4 bedroom units MF's running closer to $2,000/year than $1,000.

Thanks Doug for your input
But in my opinion Williamsburg is not Vegas so the prices should not be directly compared. Second you normally pay a premium for a 2 bedroom versus a 4 bedroom lockoff (the four bedroom is not simply double the two bedroom fees). The resorts we are talking about do not provide tremendous ammenities free of charge, although it must be pointed out some of the bussinesses inside the resort are not profitable (Spa, Resturants etc...) and one could debate their merit or the bussiness model they are currently working under. In my opinion too many owners are not holding management accountable for their decisions, DRI has little incentive on being responsive to mismanagement when they can at will increase fees. Take any exclusive timeshare with a smaller management group such as Owners Club resorts (Homestead etc...), Hammocks at Bald Head Island these probably will be known to most Mid-Atlantic timesharers. These properties both consist of upscale 3 bedroom homes in exclusive locations with many more ammenities and yet their cost per week in terms of maintence fees are on par or less than existing Greensprings and Powhatan 4 bedroom units. They are both operating in the black why not a couple of timeshares in Williamsburg? But I get the feeling we are not allowed to ask that question, because we would have to understand payroll, benefits, property management, taxes, utilities etc.. As a Professor of Physics I sometimes get an arrogant streak and attempt to wrap my head around topics I'm told I cannot possibly understand. However it seems most DRI owners would rather assume that Diamond need more money (Because they charged more money in other locations), and Steven Cloobeck is a guy who just wants to give you the best product at the lowest possible price and only secondarily eke out a living for himself! (Because he states he wants to provide quality and value to our ownerships)

The first arguement only proves diamond is consistent in asking for more funds, and if you looked at your MFs the last couple of years you will find further proof, second the last arguement is based on faith in Steven Cloobeck disclaimer at the moment I do not enjoy a faith based relationship with the aformentioned Steven Cloobeck, if you do more power to you. I do however note others in the industry have found ways to provide superior service at lower costs while increasing reserves. Why not adopt their models? The reason in my opinion their is no free market incentive to make the changes, it's easier to just charge more.

An additional problem with the theory of 1500 to 2000 MF target is many owners that own at these timeshares will not pay or maybe cannot pay, I don't advocate that policy however those that bought at these resorts were not buying into Marriott like fees at the time of their purchase, then ofcourse we have a problem the debt falls onto those that still pay fees on time. Furthermore who is going to buy a resale (not to mention a retail) unit with high MFs in Williamsburg, VA the area is already over built so how do these unit weeks transfer from weak money to strong money.

Just my concerns I guess I'm the only skeptic still hanging around this forum!

[Ryne08 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Ryne08]

When MF reach $1500 then every unit / turn key should be up to Marriott or Starwood standards.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

I guess I'm the only skeptic still hanging around this forum!

You're not the only skeptic around here. I'm just calling it like I see it. Hopefully I'm wrong but, I'm still betting that, in the next few years, you'll see MF's closer to $2,000 for a 4 bedroom unit than $1,000. Who knows, maybe if there's enough owner backlash they'll slow down and you'll see fee's remain stable for a few years.

I know that Polo Towers MF's remained stable for several years.......then we were hit with a $1,000 per 2 bedroom unit assessment to bring the units up to the standard they should have been kept at. While on the surface it appeared DRI was doing a good job of keeping MF's down, in the end, they bit us in the keester anyway. Spread that SA out over 4 or 5 years and you'll have what the MF's should have been all along.

When MF reach $1500 then every unit / turn key should be up to Marriott or Starwood standards.

I agree.