Upgrade Problems (blackouts)

[johnsorg Member Find all posts View Profile Close johnsorg]

Just booked an ocean view room at Ka'anapali Beach Club for February 2010. As an elite member, I tried to upgrade to a deluxe ocean view room and was told that is a blackout period for upgrades. I asked about information regarding this blackout period and was told there is nothing in writing. Operator told me he has been with Diamond 2 years and Hawaii is the only place he has seen this done. He said the winter and spring are blackout periods for upgrades in Hawaii. This is the first I have heard of this. Has anyone had this happen to them in Hawaii or other places?

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Just booked an ocean view room at Ka'anapali Beach Club for February 2010. As an elite member, I tried to upgrade to a deluxe ocean view room and was told that is a blackout period for upgrades. I asked about information regarding this blackout period and was told there is nothing in writing. Operator told me he has been with Diamond 2 years and Hawaii is the only place he has seen this done. He said the winter and spring are blackout periods for upgrades in Hawaii. This is the first I have heard of this. Has anyone had this happen to them in Hawaii or other places?

No.... I had an upgrade last month March 2009 at KBC that was booked 10months prior.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

According to DRI Web Site

Just booked an ocean view room at Ka'anapali Beach Club for February 2010. As an elite member, I tried to upgrade to a deluxe ocean view room and was told that is a blackout period for upgrades. I asked about information regarding this blackout period and was told there is nothing in writing. Operator told me he has been with Diamond 2 years and Hawaii is the only place he has seen this done. He said the winter and spring are blackout periods for upgrades in Hawaii. This is the first I have heard of this. Has anyone had this happen to them in Hawaii or other places?

Perhaps this is the reason why.

Here are answers from 2 questions on DRI's Web Site.

As you can see there are only 18.9% of the KBC Units in the DRI Trust. That is the total number of units available to you as Club Members.

How many of these are used by the KBC Club Members? Who knows? But one has to assume there is less than 18.9% available to you as a Club Member exchanging into KBC . And lets also say the ratio to Deluxe Ocean, to Ocean View, to Scenic View, is 1/3, to 1/3, to 1/3. So the total number of Deluxe Ocean View to you is less than 1/3 of 18.9%


According to my Discloser no more than 35% of the total units sold by Sun Terra could be fixed units. Therefore 65% of the units sold by Sun had to be sold as Float weeks. And all of these Units, 73.3% could have been sold as Deluxe Ocean View. Only Sun Terra and DRI knows how many of the 73.3% were sold as Ocean Deluxe.

All weeks sold, both Fixed and Float, has a unit number and a week assigned to the Deed. This means that unless DRI is playing games with the Deluxe Ocean View Weeks Owners Units there should never be many Deluxe Ocean View Units available as upgrades to the Club.



From DRI Web Site.

1)

Diamond Resorts owns approximately 7.8% of the inventory and the Diamond Resorts Hawaii Collection owns just over 18.9%. The Diamond Resorts Hawaii Collection has a Board that is also elected annually and has four Diamond employees serving as Directors. Traditional owners like yourself compromise about 73.3% of Ka'anapali ownership. Board members are determined by those owners who actually vote in the elections. As is the case in many national and civic elections, Diamond Resorts and the Diamond Resorts Hawaii Collection cast their votes in each election while many other owners choose not to exercise this right.

2)

Diamond Resorts expresses regret for any confusion caused by different types of resort and unit availability. It is important to distinguish between inventory that is owned by, and for, members of THE Club® and that which is owned by the management company and that we pay the maintenance fees on. When these units are unoccupied, we often place them up for rent to reclaim some revenue back.

These management company owned units are the ones you see on DiamondResorts.com that the general public can click on and book. We are glad to confirm that that in no way does any other Vacation company have access to inventory for THE Club® or priority over any members of THE Club®.

Of course, thanks to the flexibility of THE Club®, we also offer members half point accommodations as well as discounted rental opportunities that are lower than the prices offered to non-members of THE Club®. If you are opted-in to our email list you will receive regular details of these.

[johnsorg Member Find all posts View Profile Close johnsorg]

Tennis Walt,
That was a quite an explanation. However, I was told by the Diamond representative that an deluxe oceanview was available and it was also showing as available on web site. I just could not upgrade to it because of this blackout nonsense. I could have reserved it if I was willing to pay 3000 more points. So it was available.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

So What Was The total Points For a Deluxe Ocean View?

And would that give you an Ocean Front Unit?

Walt

Tennis Walt,
That was a quite an explanation. However, I was told by the Diamond representative that an deluxe oceanview was available and it was also showing as available on web site. I just could ot upgrade to it because of this blackout nonsense. I could have reserved it if I was willing to pay 3000 more points. So it was available.

[johnsorg Member Find all posts View Profile Close johnsorg]

Yes, I would have received an ocean front unit.

[winger Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close winger]

Not all delux kbc units are ocean front, some are high floors with a good amt of ocean views.
Posted via Mobile Device

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

Do They Tell You What You Are Getting For 3000 points?

There could be a very big difference between the views of a Ocean View Unit and and Deluxe Ocean View Unit. But it would all depend on what Ocean Deluxe Unit that was assigned to you.

So does DRI tell you what unit will be assigned to you at check in, so that you can see really what 3000 points will get you before you spend the 3000 points?

I would rather get an Ocean View Unit than any of the Deluxe Ocean View Units on the North Side of the Ohana Tower.

Walt

[Werner Member Find all posts View Profile Close Werner]

As you can see there are only 18.9% of the KBC Units in the DRI Trust. That is the total number of units available to you as Club Members.

Walt, Where on the DRI website did you find this? I have been looking for similar data for Poipu and haven't found it.

BTW, I think your statement about availability for Club members is too limited. The Hawaii trust is not the only source of Hawaii units. There is another category of ownership for Club Members. The OP didn't say whether he was in the Hawaiian Trust or a deeded owner who has assigned his deed to DRI for points. During the Sunterra era "deeded owner/club member" was the primary sales vehicle, at least at Poipu and I assume at KBC. If the OP is in that category he probably has access to a larger pool of units, but I don't know that for sure.

I am trying to find a breakdown of ownership categories at Poipu;

• Weeks controlled by deeded owners who are not members of "the Club".
• Weeks controlled by deeded owners who have "assigned" their deeds to "the Club".
• Weeks controlled by the Hawaiian Trust.
• Unsold weeks controlled by DRI Corp.

I suspect that the inventories are lower for each category going down the list but I'm not sure. Part of this year's "owner update" disinformation campaign was that the first two pools were shrinking to the point that soon deeded owners would not have enough floating inventory to be able to reserve weeks other than their assigned "inventory control" week. That's nonsense of course but I am curious about the size of the various pools.

I can't imagine Poipu or KBC deeded owners in any of the top two categories giving up their deeds for the minimal benefits to them of being in the trust (and paying for the privilege) so I doubt that those two categories are shrinking very much. I do suspect that most of the growth in Hawaiian units available to the Hawaiian Trust is coming from new sales, the corporate-owned units being bought and moved into the trust, since that is what DRI is pushing. I asked our "owner updater" (re; salesman) to show us some numbers since he was trying to scare us with his talk about a shrinking pool but he claimed he didn't have any, which of course makes his whole argument moot.

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

On DRI's Web Site In Owners Forum

I did not post links to this Forum because I don't think you can get into the Forum without being an Owner or Club Member.

So Login In.

Go to Members Forum.

Find Thread "Followup To KBC Maintenance Fees Question."

See post # 5197. This is CeliaD's post from DRI.

The 2nd Quote is from:

Go to Owner "availability vs. Public availability"

Post #7105. This is CeliaD's post from DRI.

To find these threads search for KBC.


Hope this helps.

Walt

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

More Information.

Walt, Where on the DRI website did you find this? I have been looking for similar data for Poipu and haven't found it.

BTW, I think your statement about availability for Club members is too limited. The Hawaii trust is not the only source of Hawaii units. There is another category of ownership for Club Members. The OP didn't say whether he was in the Hawaiian Trust or a deeded owner who has assigned his deed to DRI for points. During the Sunterra era "deeded owner/club member" was the primary sales vehicle, at least at Poipu and I assume at KBC. If the OP is in that category he probably has access to a larger pool of units, but I don't know that for sure.

I am trying to find a breakdown of ownership categories at Poipu;

• Weeks controlled by deeded owners who are not members of "the Club".
• Weeks controlled by deeded owners who have "assigned" their deeds to "the Club".
• Weeks controlled by the Hawaiian Trust.
• Unsold weeks controlled by DRI Corp.

I suspect that the inventories are lower for each category going down the list but I'm not sure. Part of this year's "owner update" disinformation campaign was that the first two pools were shrinking to the point that soon deeded owners would not have enough floating inventory to be able to reserve weeks other than their assigned "inventory control" week. That's nonsense of course but I am curious about the size of the various pools.

I can't imagine Poipu or KBC deeded owners in any of the top two categories giving up their deeds for the minimal benefits to them of being in the trust (and paying for the privilege) so I doubt that those two categories are shrinking very much. I do suspect that most of the growth in Hawaiian units available to the Hawaiian Trust is coming from new sales, the corporate-owned units being bought and moved into the trust, since that is what DRI is pushing. I asked our "owner updater" (re; salesman) to show us some numbers since he was trying to scare us with his talk about a shrinking pool but he claimed he didn't have any, which of course makes his whole argument moot.

I also saw this from another source.

Who really owns KBC? The Owners with Deeds.

If the weeks owners now have deeds to about 72% of the Units and the Club Members have another 23% of THEIR deeds placed into the Trust, 2% changing ownership, then DRI really owns only between 2% and 3% of KBC.

But the Club Members are allowing DRI to control their 23%.

Walt

[johnsorg Member Find all posts View Profile Close johnsorg]

In reply to Tennis Walt, I do not know what unit would be assigned. However, my point is that as an elite member I am supposed to be able to upgrade to the next level of unit available. I am not being allowed to do that. I have never seen this in writing nor have I ever been told this by anyone from DRI. If this trend continues at other resorts, it will significantly dilute the value of being an elite member.

[Werner Member Find all posts View Profile Close Werner]

Who really owns KBC? The Owners with Deeds.

If the weeks owners now have deeds to about 72% of the Units and the Club Members have another 23% of THEIR deeds placed into the Trust, 2% changing ownership, then DRI really owns only between 2% and 3% of KBC.

But the Club Members are allowing DRI to control their 23%.

Walt

Thanks for the DRI forum info.

DRI seems to be a new breed of timeshare company. We use the word "developer" but I don't think that word applies anymore. Developers used to build the resort and then sell it out, then go build another one (assuming that they made money; many timeshares, like Poipu are really failed condo developments). DRI clealy does not intend to sell out. They see themselves as an exclusive version of II or RCI but with control of some of its crown jewel properties, like Poipu and KBC. One reason that DRI is not pushing, or even mentioning, deeded ownership anymore to prospective buyers is that deeded owners who assign their deeds to DRI in exchange for Club points still vote for the HOA boards every year, just like non-DRI-member owners do. The trusts are the only mechanism they have for maintaining control of a large block of votes after "selling" out the resort. Its not even clear what "selling" means in the case of trusts. Even though a trust is theoretically a separate real estate entity, it still operates like a club within "the Club".

[tennisWalt Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tennisWalt]

On DRI's Web Site In Owners Forum

In reply to Tennis Walt, I do not know what unit would be assigned. However, my point is that as an elite member I am supposed to be able to upgrade to the next level of unit available. I am not being allowed to do that. I have never seen this in writing nor have I ever been told this by anyone from DRI. If this trend continues at other resorts, it will significantly dilute the value of being an elite member.

I found this on the Member Forum. Post #1035 from CeliaD of DRI. Dated 4/23/2008.

Search for Elite Benefits to get to Thread.

Elite Status; What is Happening?

One Class Unit Upgrade on Reservations to Club destinations Based upon space availability

Nothing about Blackouts.

Walt

[johnsorg Member Find all posts View Profile Close johnsorg]

Problem solved

Received a phone from an assistant to Jeff Shelton, executive resolutions, DRI. The assistant was responding to an e-mail I had sent. She was able to upgrade my unit for the $99 fee. She said there is no such thing as a blackout period and I should have never been told that. They were going to look into it and make sure no one else is told this, if a unit is available for an upgrade.