California Inventory Problems

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

I was an original owner at San Luis Bay Inn purchased before they opened over 20 years ago. I was always able to reserve prime summer weeks, including the 4th of July week 8 months in advance. This was until Wyndham took over the management of the resort about 4 years ago. All of a sudden I wasn't able to reserve summer weeks, let alone July 4th without a lot of trouble. I called them the minute I was allowed to reserve 13 months in advance and there was nothing. I kept calling each week and eventually got something but not what I wanted. I asked them what was going on but they just ignored it and were quite rude about it all. Finally an agent told me that there were only 2 weeks released for reservations when the window opened. There should be all of the weeks ( ~160 or so ) available each week. I put up with this BS from Wyndham for 2 years and then sold my San Luis Bay Inn timeshare.

Prior to Wyndham, we had great service from our management companies.

I am not saying that it is easy to get the floating weeks that most people want but that is not the fault of Wyndham, in this case, but mainly because many other owners want the same high demand weeks too. It seems to be a problem with all floating week systems where everyone wants the school vacation and holiday weeks.

Tragically, in this case, it appears that is definitely the 'fault' of Wyndham, or do you doubt what JWC's experiences tell us?

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I suspect the issue here is associated with allocation of floating inventory when there is mixed ownership at a resort between individual owners and a bloc ownership, such as a vacation club. The situation is exacerbated when the management of the vacation club overlaps with the resort management.

Somehow there needs to be a translation of available inventory between individual owners and the Club. Theoretically it could be done by the reservations office simply treating the club as a single owner, but the reality is that the system will tend to be run for the benefit of the Club.

Several years ago when I pressed this issue with the reservations manager at Po'ipu, I was told by Patty Ornellas that what she did was a flat rate pro rata allocation of inventory for each check-in day. For example, if 50% of the ocean view units were part of the Club, then on each check-in day 50% of the ocean view units were set asice for the Club, and 50% remained available to other owners. There were no seasonal preferences. That, of course, is the fairest was to do things.

But there certainly are lots of opportunities for a the management company to tilt things to favor the developers operations. All that they need do is assign an unfair share of the best inventory in each float category to the developers club.

John's experience is certainly consistent with that type of operation.

********

Even if the inventory is not being directly funneled to the Club operation, I believe that a mixed club/individual ownership arrangement will result in shorting owners during peak times unless a straight linking allocation policy is adopted.

The reality is that the Club is going to scarf up peak inventory for it's members if that inventory is sitting around. Even if the resort treats the club as just another owner, the club will be savvy enough to put in their requests for peak time at the earliest possible moments. They will be sufficiently in touch with the operation to ensure that their requests are at or very near the top of the pile for processing.

Thus, if it took several for all of the peak inventory to book when the resort is 100% individual owner, that peak inventory is likely to be gone within a couple of days or less when a Club is operating.

*****

Another factor is that there will be some individual owners who always reserve the same peak weeks every year, and these owners use their units. These owners are probably also least likely to pay to convert to the Club; the Club doesn't really offer advantages to them.

Prior to Club operation, these owners were simply competing among themselves for 100% of the peak inventory. Now those owners are competing against the big bloc of ownerships associated with the Club.

Even if the resort adopts a straight-lining allocation policy such as I described above these individual owners will still face more competition for weeks, because a smaller proportion of those owners will convert to the Club.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

There was no conflict with any club at SLBI. All weeks are individual deeded floating weeks. As I have said repeatedly, it worked exactly as it should have for the 18 years or so prior to Wyndham. Actually it was the best when Glen Ivy, the original developer managed it. When they went bankrupt, RCI management took over and did a good job with almost all their employees being from Glen Ivy. Very little changed from Glen Ivy. Then I believe Fairfield took over a couple of years before Wyndham. Things didn't change much when Fairfield took over.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Tragically, in this case, it appears that is definitely the 'fault' of Wyndham, or do you doubt what JWC's experiences tell us?

Spence, I believe John all along but what I was trying to say is that this wouldn't happen if there is a strong BOD in place at the resort and they keep the management company (Wyndham) in check. I have no idea how strong the board is at his former resort.

In his case, the resort seems to have different groups of owners too as I read that DRI also owns there and that makes it even more complicated with several management companies so favorites can be played and most likely are if one of them is a big shot like DRI.

We went on a timeshare presentation once at Gleneden in Oregon which was owned by Worldmark/Trendwest. They showed us the inventory we could trade into and low and behold, it had two weeks at the Marriott DSVs that we were trying to get as an owner but couldn't. They told us then that they had a big clout with other big developers to get some of the best weeks so that opened our eyes how unfair this floating system is played. This is another reason why we like the old system of a certain unit and week as it is flexible too, if you make an exchange. A floating system is a crap shoot and they can bend the rules and you wouldn't even know about it but they have your money so what can you do but grin and bear it or walk away from your investment. It isn't so bad if you bought it re-sale for a few hundred dollars but not if you bought it at inflated prices from the developer which most people still do.

John, When Wyndham took over from Fairfield, it was nothing more than a name change. When Glen Ivy stopped to exist, Fairfield took over but most of the employees stayed on so we didn't notice much change.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

What drives all of this in my view is the bottom line of the developers, who, has been stated are also the management company in many, many instances. Their contracts are written by their own lawyers and approved by HOAs that are in most cases controlled by them. Those contracts and /or club rules give them carte blanche to rent inventory to pay for those other things that they provide like airline tickets or Disney tickets. They manipulate the inventory to get their money and more out of it, keeping much of the best for their own use.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

John, When Wyndham took over from Fairfield, it was nothing more than a name change. When Glen Ivy stopped to exist, Fairfield took over but most of the employees stayed on so we didn't notice much change.

That is NOT true. RCIM ( RCI management ) took over when Glen Ivy disappeared. Fairfield took over from RCIM some years later. I didn't notice much change either until the Wyndham name appeared.

I am not going to continue on with this as I have said my piece. I hated Wyndham for what happened to our reservations system. As such, I sold my SLBI timeshare for a very good price and am done with it.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

That is NOT true. RCIM ( RCI management ) took over when Glen Ivy disappeared. Fairfield took over from RCIM some years later. I didn't notice much change either until the Wyndham name appeared.

I am not going to continue on with this as I have said my piece. I hated Wyndham for what happened to our reservations system. As such, I sold my SLBI timeshare for a very good price and am done with it.

You are right. Fairfield took over from RCIM. I forgot about that.

I am glad you sold your resort and are done with it if you were no longer happy with it. We still are but making reservations is a bear with a floating system so we try not to own them but Laguna Surf is special for us so we keep it for now until it no longer works, just like you. I am glad that it is a very small resort so nobody else can own there but the owners and no "clubs" or whatever else they may dream up in the future to improve their bottom line.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

That is NOT true. RCIM ( RCI management ) took over when Glen Ivy disappeared. Fairfield took over from RCIM some years later. I didn't notice much change either until the Wyndham name appeared.

I am not going to continue on with this as I have said my piece. I hated Wyndham for what happened to our reservations system. As such, I sold my SLBI timeshare for a very good price and am done with it.

Your input is appreciated!

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

Your input is appreciated!

Thank you.

Emmy,

You cannot paint all floating week resorts with the same brush. We have been very happy with our Gaslamp Plaza Suites VRI resort and were happy with SLBI ( prior to Wyndham ). I know many other people that prefer a floating week. I far prefer a floating week to a fixed resort for 2 reasons. That is assuming that all weeks are "red" like GPS and SLBI. The first reason is, it gives me flexibility. The second is that I can reserve a holiday week like the July 4th, etc. and not pay a premium for it like I would if purchasing a holiday fixed week. To get the good weeks, you do have to reserve well in advance. I reserve the July 4th week every year to give me maximum trading power as I always use it for exchanging. The good thing with GPS is that I can reserve my week 2 years in advance and they do NOT require that the M/F be paid in advance. Most people can't or don't schedule that far ahead. Because I always exchange it, scheduling is not an issue to me.

The most important thing is that one investigates throughly how the system works and how well before purchasing anything.

In your case, Laguna Surf is a very small resort which probably makes it harder to reserve. I would love to own there for the location.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

John - thank you for your input as well.

In my posts I was assuming that when Wyndham arrived they grafted their club operations onto reservation system. Is that not what happened?

If Wyndham did add club operations, then the inventory control issues I mentioned should have become an issue.

[JWC Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close JWC]

John - thank you for your input as well.

In my posts I was assuming that when Wyndham arrived they grafted their club operations onto reservation system. Is that not what happened?

If Wyndham did add club operations, then the inventory control issues I mentioned should have become an issue.

Steve,

I really can't tell you what they did. However, legally they could not change the system from the original Glen Ivy "Preferred Status Exchange" system. That was a condition ordered by the bankruptcy court. Glen Ivy was one of the timeshare pioneers with their system. Basically there was a Glen Ivy resort group consisting of 18 resorts in California, Utah, Arizona, Texas, and Hawaii. It was a great system. You could reserve any week you wanted at any of the resorts in the group. We did this a couple times. It was not an exchange as you reserved the week directly at the resort of your choice with no exchange fees. You could split your week, carry it over to the next year, upgrade size, etc. You could also get "bonus time" at any one of the resorts. We frequently did this at Palm Springs. Not all resorts were the same as some were "red" weeks all year like SLBI and some were seasonal like Palm Springs and Arizona resorts. An owner of a "red" week could reserve at any season at all resorts with no fee. An owner of a low season week at the seasonal resorts could exchange for free to the same color or pay a small upgrade fee to a "red" week. You bought your deeded week at one resort which is your home resort though technically you were an owner of the system. Owners did get advantages at their home resort by being able to reserve a month earlier before others in the system could. There were a few other advantages that you had at your home resort.

This system was quite a departure from the normal timeshare considering it was 22 years ago. Since then a few resorts dropped out but the system pretty well was intact up until Wyndham.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Steve,

I really can't tell you what they did. However, legally they could not change the system from the original Glen Ivy "Preferred Status Exchange" system. That was a condition ordered by the bankruptcy court.

Right.

So what I'm surmising is that Wyndham interfaces with the reservation exactly as if it were a individual who owned multiple weeks within the system. They have exactly those reservation rights as are attached to the deeds that they have in the Fairshare program.

Of course, though, they don't own just three or four weeks, but hundreds of weeks. So they look at the system to find out what weeks they can reserve with those rights that are the most valuable to them - to make available to Fairshare members, to use in promotions, to rent, whatever. Then when the reservation window opens for those weeks they want, they are right there making their requests as soon as the reservation window opens. If the person who processes those reservation requests also happens to be on their payroll, it's pretty easy to ensure that Wyndham's request move to the top of the pile.

I'm hypothesizing that may be the root of the changes you noted. Nothing is needed regarding changing the old Glen Ivy program. They don't have to be granted access to weeks that they do not have rights to based on the deeds that are in the Fairshare program.

All they need do is plan out in advance what weeks are optimum for them to reserve and ensure their requests are in at the earliest possible moments.

As an individual you are suddenly in competition with another owner who has enough units under direct control to grab all of that 4th of July inventory, and who has the means to ensure that their requests get processed first.

The individual owners who previously had no problem reserving peak time when it was all individual requests now find that those weeks are gone the instant they become available.

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Right.

So what I'm surmising is that Wyndham interfaces with the reservation exactly as if it were a individual who owned multiple weeks within the system. They have exactly those reservation rights as are attached to the deeds that they have in the Fairshare program.

Of course, though, they don't own just three or four weeks, but hundreds of weeks. So they look at the system to find out what weeks they can reserve with those rights that are the most valuable to them - to make available to Fairshare members, to use in promotions, to rent, whatever. Then when the reservation window opens for those weeks they want, they are right there making their requests as soon as the reservation window opens. If the person who processes those reservation requests also happens to be on their payroll, it's pretty easy to ensure that Wyndham's request move to the top of the pile.

I'm hypothesizing that may be the root of the changes you noted. Nothing is needed regarding changing the old Glen Ivy program. They don't have to be granted access to weeks that they do not have rights to based on the deeds that are in the Fairshare program.

All they need do is plan out in advance what weeks are optimum for them to reserve and ensure their requests are in at the earliest possible moments.

As an individual you are suddenly in competition with another owner who has enough units under direct control to grab all of that 4th of July inventory, and who has the means to ensure that their requests get processed first.

The individual owners who previously had no problem reserving peak time when it was all individual requests now find that those weeks are gone the instant they become available.

That's about it, they do it, most other club systems do it, RCI and II do it with their deposits, of course they get them first to do with what they want.

[madmitch Member Find all posts View Profile Close madmitch]

What I have found interesting is that even when I can't book a particular week (with Wyndham) they seem to find availability for me via their rental company... IF I want to pay!
I had three weeks to book in 2009 which included one banked week.
Even at the last minute they had some time available for me, but not weeks I wanted.
I ended up depositing two of those into Interval and just used 5 nights from the remaining week while in the area visiting family.
(since helping my niece buy a new home that has a "B&B" just for me I don't need to stay at SLBI so I've been using it as a trader)
As John (JWC) says, it was better prior to Wyndham taking over. The front desk was helpful in booking future reservations, now they just refer us to the 800 number. (which thankfully rings to the US and not some idiotic foreign country call center... I ask)

[barndweller Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close barndweller]

I was just at SLB a few weeks ago using DRI points. I can tell you the place was full. We added 2 more nights using owner bonus time. I had to call the 800 number and the only thing available was a mini suite (that's what we own.) This was for Fri & Sat. The front desk called when our mini was ready on Fri morning and we carted our stuff over. Lots of folks were checking out but by 4pm the place was full again. This is waayyy off season for exchangers but most owners and local people know that it is a wonderful time to visit the area.

I think part of the lack of inventory through DRI is just the fact that non-DRI owners are using their time or booking owner bonus time. I don't know how many owners have bought through DRI or have joined the club. My brother owns there through DRI and was there last week for 4 nights using last minute 1/2 points to book. He said it was full.

As an aside...the old section, the original Inn, has been completely renovated. There is all new furnature, redone bathrooms and kitchens. The kitchens in the mini suites are now full kitchens with range complete with oven. Upgraded linens and nice flat screen TVs. They did a nice job. I think the mini has more square footage than the 1 bedroom unit in the newer building.