Members renting weeks to other members to recover their fees

[falmouth3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close falmouth3]

I have a floating week in Orlando. I have never been to the resort where I own. However on the first day that I can book the week that I perceive to have the best value, I'm on the phone reserving that week. That way, when I exchange it, I get the best exchange available. I'm maximizing what I own.

Sue

[Sue S Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sue S]

I guess Americans have a different perspective on property rights than do Brits. When we own something, we own it. We have the freedom to do whatever we want with it within the law. In fact, there are clearly laid out laws for what owners can do with their real property.

If we own vacation time, it's like our own home to us. We have the right to rent our home. Why should anyone else feel slighted if we rent our home to someone.

If the issue is whether or not you can book the holiday week ahead of the other owner, then that's a reservation rule question. That is just a matter of competition for the week. If you don't act as quickly as the other owner who acted within the rules, that's your fault, not his.

Is it inconsiderate? No more inconsiderate than it is for someone to complain in public about someone's renting out what is clearly theirs to rent.

I don't think it's anything to do with Brit vs American view on property rights. I quite agree with BocaBum, if you can book the week and wish to rent it then go right ahead. I booked a 2-bed at Kenmore in Scotland for the New Year's Eve week of the millennium with every intention of renting it. It's a big night in Scotland and I thought that being the millennium it would be in high demand - and I was quite right . I can't see that it makes any difference whether I'm renting it out or staying in it myself - either way it's not available to anyone else...

[hercules24 Member Find all posts View Profile Close hercules24]

What's the point

Sue

What was the point in booking the 2 bedroom apartment in Kenmore for renting out as you can only recover what you paid for it in fees - unless this because of the high demand for the week at Kenmore you managed to receive a higher than normal exchange for the unit via II ?

[Sue S Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sue S]

Sue

What was the point in booking the 2 bedroom apartment in Kenmore for renting out as you can only recover what you paid for it in fees - unless this because of the high demand for the week at Kenmore you managed to receive a higher than normal exchange for the unit via II ?

Why can you only recover what you paid for it in fees?

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

You are right Americans do have a different perspective on many things than those of us here, my point was the consideration that may be made as to whether or nor you are blocking someone else when in fact you don't really need to.
I don't dispute the point about when you book something it is yours and it is of course your right to enjoy it.I would be waiting for the right moment to go online and book it if it was the date and property that I wanted. I'm just asking is it right to book it without considering if someone else would benefit from it more than you if you don't really need to. I don't have a problem with booking it for your own use if that is the time you choose to have your vacation either, but go back to the original question I posed ....is it "right","fair","considerate" or whatever to book prime time, that others have no other option but to go for, just because you know you can rent it out again for a profit.?
I think somewhere along the way in the thread people misunderstood what I meant, I have no problem with it being in the rules and first to get online gets to book it either. I guess it's a kind of moral question in a way? Several posters have jumped in quickly to defend the right to book what you want and when you want perhaps there is someone out there who sees it from my perspective? If not then just let this thread die a natural death I won't lose any sleep over it.

Actually, I believe the opposite is true. I believe that there are far more owners who believe that renting units when it comes to potentially interfering with their ability to book units are viscerally and vehemently against it. And, you will often times see threads like your where owners show an intense moral outrage.

However, when you look at the situation more closely, you will conclude as you already have that owners have property rights and those rights should NOT be violated. One of them is renting out their week for a profit or a loss. They bought it, they own it and they can do whatever they want with it.

Otherwise, the alternative is that a big organization such as Diamond can start taking away those property rights, making up new rules for booking reservations and using your time and diminishing everyone's rights.

Take a look at what Wyndham recently did. They charge a $99/$129 fee to put a guest in your unit. That is an outrageous fee to give your unit to a family member because you can't use it. They did this to hurt the group of people who are more affectionately known as megarenters. But, when you look at it more closely, what is actually happening? Is there more availability for Wyndham owners? No! But, to let me sister use my Kona Hawaiian Resort week, I had to pay an extra $99. Why is that right? That is the real slippery slope that you slide down when property rights can be trampled on by a majority whose desires result in very undesirable unintended consequences.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

Sue

What was the point in booking the 2 bedroom apartment in Kenmore for renting out as you can only recover what you paid for it in fees - unless this because of the high demand for the week at Kenmore you managed to receive a higher than normal exchange for the unit via II ?

Why can you only recover what you paid for it in fees?

Hercules, I think this is a misconception on your part.
You can rent your ownership for whatever the market will bear.

I own at the Marriott Aruba Resort - I reserve my 1BR unit for March and rent it via Redweek.com for $1850 - the MF on my 2BR week is $1150ish - and Marriott rents that 1BR unit for $600 PER NIGHT.

So I win as I cover my costs and then some and the renter wins because they are saving significantly from renting from me instead of Marriott.
I call and reserve that March week on the first day I am able. Every owner at the resort who owns the same season as me can call that day and try to reserve when I do - I have no advantage over any other owner.

Many of us have various ownerships and we use renting as a way to offset our costs - other people have businesses renting TSs which is also okay - because if u own it, u can rent it.

JMHO

[Bulldog Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bulldog]

Hercules, I think this is a misconception on your part.
You can rent your ownership for whatever the market will bear.

I own at the Marriott Aruba Resort - I reserve my 1BR unit for March and rent it via Redweek.com for $1850 - the MF on my 2BR week is $1150ish - and Marriott rents that 1BR unit for $600 PER NIGHT.

So I win as I cover my costs and then some and the renter wins because they are saving significantly from renting from me instead of Marriott.
I call and reserve that March week on the first day I am able. Every owner at the resort who owns the same season as me can call that day and try to reserve when I do - I have no advantage over any other owner.

Many of us have various ownerships and we use renting as a way to offset our costs - other people have businesses renting TSs which is also okay - because if u own it, u can rent it.

JMHO

I don't think it is a misconception on anybody's part here at all, none of us who have posted on this thread would ever dispute that ownership entitles the owner to do what they want....what we are suggesting is that maybe they should consider those who are not in the fortunate position to book 13/12/10 months in advance either for work,school or whatever reason before they book for something that they are not going to use for their own personal use. Timeshare ownership by individuals should not be a business and the rules state that properties should not be rented out for a profit. Also perhaps the exclusivity of timeshare should be considered before renting out to just anyone, repercussions can be taken against club members in the event of damage or bad behaviour but is more difficult when the renter is not a club member.
That is the point being made here, not the taking away of anyone's rights as an owner. If you own a fixed week that is not prime time then it is fine to swop it for something via the various channels available but it is points owners who have more of a choice that the original question was really directed at.
The question was originally posed on european based forums because many members were complaining that there was not much availability after the 13/12/10 month period if they were not able to book that early for reasons already stated.
I expect endless amounts of flak now so fire away!!!

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

ITimeshare ownership by individuals should not be a business and the rules state that properties should not be rented out for a profit.

If the rule is there, and exact wording is writting, there should be no discussion of this consideration issue.

Most is "Timeshare is not an inestment tool".

You should see the exchange companies' rule, that is very clear defined.

Anyway, people in this forums post sighting, provide tips to help each other to get inventory for their use. I believe that is the max one can do for this consideration.

I don't know if anyone need to wait until last unit or no unit available to make reservation for the purpose of "Consideration".

Jya-Ning

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

I don't think it is a misconception on anybody's part here at all, none of us who have posted on this thread would ever dispute that ownership entitles the owner to do what they want....what we are suggesting is that maybe they should consider those who are not in the fortunate position to book 13/12/10 months in advance either for work,school or whatever reason before they book for something that they are not going to use for their own personal use. Timeshare ownership by individuals should not be a business and the rules state that properties should not be rented out for a profit. Also perhaps the exclusivity of timeshare should be considered before renting out to just anyone, repercussions can be taken against club members in the event of damage or bad behavior but is more difficult when the renter is not a club member.
That is the point being made here, not the taking away of anyone's rights as an owner. If you own a fixed week that is not prime time then it is fine to swap it for something via the various channels available but it is points owners who have more of a choice that the original question was really directed at.The question was originally posed on European based forums because many members were complaining that there was not much availability after the 13/12/10 month period if they were not able to book that early for reasons already stated.
I expect endless amounts of flak now so fire away!!!

The misconception I was referring to was renting for recovery of MFs only - Is this an actual 'rule' of your ownership or your perception/opinion? Sus S also asked you this question - I am very curious about it.

All of my home resorts take a credit card deposit from everyone - owner or renter or exchanger - for potential damages. I do agree with you though that 'pride of ownership' makes people treat things/properties with more respect.

I own a fixed week in Ireland in summer - I use it, I rent it or I deposit it with RCI or SFX - my choice - but your logic says this is only okay if my week is in January not June???? I can not agree with that logic.

I am also a Wyndham Points owner - and I make my reservations at the 10 month mark when everything is opened up to all owners - no home resort advantage there for me.
And the conventional wisdom for that ownership is if you REALLY need to go to the 'hot' resort - u need to own there to reserve at 13 months.

It certainly is unfortunate that people who can not reserve because of school/work/whatever until 5-6 months prior to travel are being left out of the perceived 'good reservations' but then maybe that owner needs to re-evaluate whether floating time/points is the right ownership for them.
I own float weeks, fixed weeks and points which allows me great flexibility - but I know the 'juggling' that I do is not for everyone.


I have been following this thread from the beginning - I only chose to post now in response to the statement about "Renting for fees only" because it was questioned above by Hercules why some would rent and only recover the MFs/cost - not make a profit. Making this statement probably wasn't necessary - we encourage lively discussion here and all are welcome to comment on threads posted

edit - as i was composing my loooooong response - Jya-Ning stated it perfectly....where is this 'rule' written because otherwise, it is not a 'rule'

[Bulldog Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Bulldog]

The misconception I was referring to was renting for recovery of MFs only - Is this an actual 'rule' of your ownership or your perception/opinion? Sus S also asked you this question - I am very curious about it.

All of my home resorts take a credit card deposit from everyone - owner or renter or exchanger - for potential damages. I do agree with you though that 'pride of ownership' makes people treat things/properties with more respect.

I own a fixed week in Ireland in summer - I use it, I rent it or I deposit it with RCI or SFX - my choice - but your logic says this is only okay if my week is in January not June???? I can not agree with that logic.

I am also a Wyndham Points owner - and I make my reservations at the 10 month mark when everything is opened up to all owners - no home resort advantage there for me.
And the conventional wisdom for that ownership is if you REALLY need to go to the 'hot' resort - u need to own there to reserve at 13 months.

It certainly is unfortunate that people who can not reserve because of school/work/whatever until 5-6 months prior to travel are being left out of the perceived 'good reservations' but then maybe that owner needs to re-evaluate whether floating time/points is the right ownership for them.
I own float weeks, fixed weeks and points which allows me great flexibility - but I know the 'juggling' that I do is not for everyone.


I have been following this thread from the beginning - I only chose to post now in response to the statement about "Renting for fees only" because it was questioned above by Hercules why some would rent and only recover the MFs/cost - not make a profit. Making this statement probably wasn't necessary - we encourage lively discussion here and all are welcome to comment on threads posted

edit - as i was composing my loooooong response - Jya-Ning stated it perfectly....where is this 'rule' written because otherwise, it is not a 'rule'

taken from Diamond Resorts Amendments to Rules & Regulations 2009

"The Rules have been clarified by making it clear that Members renting out accommodation reserved by them using
‘public advertising or an online website shall be deemed a prohibited commercial use’, and may lead to
suspension and / or termination of a membership. A limit on the number of guest certificates that a Member will
be allowed may also be imposed to prevent circumvention of the Club rules. Again, there is no change at this
time, but this amendment allows the Managing Company to ensure that a small number of Members do not
abuse this member benefit and rent out accommodation for commercial gain."

[Sue S Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Sue S]

taken from Diamond Resorts Amendments to Rules & Regulations 2009

"The Rules have been clarified by making it clear that Members renting out accommodation reserved by them using
‘public advertising or an online website shall be deemed a prohibited commercial use’, and may lead to
suspension and / or termination of a membership. A limit on the number of guest certificates that a Member will
be allowed may also be imposed to prevent circumvention of the Club rules. Again, there is no change at this
time, but this amendment allows the Managing Company to ensure that a small number of Members do not
abuse this member benefit and rent out accommodation for commercial gain."

Well it's a good job I rented out my week when it was Sunterra (or maybe it was GVC back then). However, I do believe that this rule is to stop mass renting out of DRI weeks, not the odd week here or there which members may do to help alleviate the pain of the management fee!

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

taken from Diamond Resorts Amendments to Rules & Regulations 2009

Ah, Amendments to Rules & Regulations 2009. As Wyndham owner, I believe this is what said in the Wyndham trust rule, like please refer to member directory for the club rules, then, in the yearly published directory, it says something like refer to trust rule for the club rule.

Wonder what was written in the Wyndham 2000 year directory, that is the year I made purchase. Well, I have a copy of directory that says 2002.

Things can and do change, don't they. If that is the case, then at this moment, it is kind of meaningless to even need to worry "consideration". The "commercial owner" does not have any in that process, if you base on this 2009 Amendments.

Jya-Ning

[Carlos Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Carlos]

Who and How is this Monitored

taken from Diamond Resorts Amendments to Rules & Regulations 2009

"The Rules have been clarified by making it clear that Members renting out accommodation reserved by them using
‘public advertising or an online website shall be deemed a prohibited commercial use’, and may lead to
suspension and / or termination of a membership. A limit on the number of guest certificates that a Member will
be allowed may also be imposed to prevent circumvention of the Club rules. Again, there is no change at this
time, but this amendment allows the Managing Company to ensure that a small number of Members do not
abuse this member benefit and rent out accommodation for commercial gain."

This is very, very interesting considering that salespeople for DRI make a big point of using ownership and the ability to rent it a part of their selling scheme. However, now that I am thinking about it they do consistently say they do this for family and friends. However, I can't believe they don't ever rent it out to others.

I would love to know how DRI monitors this? Do they have some report generated to review the numbers of exhanges or guest certificates requested? Inquiring minds would like to know. I may ask on the DRI forum.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

This is very, very interesting considering that salespeople for DRI make a big point of using ownership and the ability to rent it a part of their selling scheme. However, now that I am thinking about it they do consistently say they do this for family and friends. However, I can't believe they don't ever rent it out to others.

I would love to know how DRI monitors this? Do they have some report generated to review the numbers of exhanges or guest certificates requested? Inquiring minds would like to know. I may ask on the DRI forum.

It's pretty easy to for corporations to routinely search the internet using key words. DRI monitors this and other forums on a regular basis. I once knew a person who's job it was to search for and locate articles about companies. He refered to his job as a "clipper" as he clipped articles and posts with that companies name in them. It's not unusual but DRI has been rather aggressive and public about doing this.

[Carlos Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Carlos]

Montoring Rules on Renting

It's pretty easy to for corporations to routinely search the internet using key words. DRI monitors this and other forums on a regular basis. I once knew a person who's job it was to search for and locate articles about companies. He refered to his job as a "clipper" as he clipped articles and posts with that companies name in them. It's not unusual but DRI has been rather aggressive and public about doing this.

No, I meant how do they monitor how much someone is renting their timeshare. Unless you are requesting a guest certificate, how can they know who is checking into a room.