Bent Creek and 2010 Maintance Fee... We are in SHOCK!

[mace Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mace]

I am also (unfortunately) an owner at Bent Creek. We stayed there
in July but had to trade through RCI as DRI did'nt have availability (although our next door neighbor was there on a 2-day $99.00 package WITHOUT any requirements}. We then went to Williamsburg and the place with the geese poop EVERYWHERE - also available through RCI and NOT DRI.

We did get FREE comment paper from DRI - and used it, with our own pen because their pen was out of ink, to report TWO pages of complaints at EACH location.

PS Trading RCI points with RCI - plus RCI fee - was CHEAPER than if we had used points from "THE CLUB".

The 25% INCREASE in MF in 2008 and the 18.5% INCREASE in 2009 was allocated to ADMINISTRATIVE FEES.

I believe the value from a dollar perspective is being drained from the club, Cloobeck I believed has targeted his acquisitions based on his ability to raise the MFs fees of owners. In actuality the only remedy is state law, some states do a very good job of regulating the industry others are a bit more hands off. Is it me or was Bluegreen tempting to Cloobeck because of their low Fees I believe he knew he could have gotten away with a 30% to 50% increase in fees with no significant improvements. Anyone who studies Owner controlled HOA timeshares knows the real cost of management and upkeep. So for the few in this forum who thinks Sunterra was undercharging MFs, and Diamond (Cloobeck) is just cleaning up the mess let me poor you another glass of refreshing kool-aid brought to you by Diamond Resorts International

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

I believe the value from a dollar perspective is being drained from the club, Cloobeck I believed has targeted his acquisitions based on his ability to raise the MFs fees of owners. In actuality the only remedy is state law, some states do a very good job of regulating the industry others are a bit more hands off. Is it me or was Bluegreen tempting to Cloobeck because of their low Fees I believe he knew he could have gotten away with a 30% to 50% increase in fees with no significant improvements. Anyone who studies Owner controlled HOA timeshares knows the real cost of management and upkeep. So for the few in this forum who thinks Sunterra was undercharging MFs, and Diamond (Cloobeck) is just cleaning up the mess let me poor you another glass of refreshing kool-aid brought to you by Diamond Resorts International

Have you ever read any of my posts? If you have then you'd realize that I've been accused more than once of being negative on DRI. I've recieved more than one nasty gram from the CEO of DRI based on past complaints about DRI.

However one fact remains. Sunterra FAILED! If I'm not mistaken, they failed more than once. It's just that the last time they failed so miserably that the courts oredered them out of the business.

For those that would like to go back to the old Sunterra I invite you to read the complaints from the past. Apparently there are those that forgot about the Scambulance that toured the UK protesting Sunterra's deceptive sales practices. Apparently there are those that have so soon forgotten about the complaints of lack of maintenance at some of the old Sunterra resorts.

I'm no big DRI fan and find that their MF's in ratio to services currently provided to be out of balance in comparison to both our Marriott and Hilton ownerships. I have, on the other hand, seen enough improvements to warrent taking a more liberal stance with a wait and see attitude. The web site is now user friendly. When I've had a complaint it's been addressed by a person and, it's been followed up on by a person. Last year when I complained the system was failing on it's relaxation simplified I fealt that it was but, this year I have to say they are reaching that goal.

Am I simply a happy little camper sitting behind my computer drinking Kool-aid? I think not. I rather believe that it's those who would want to return to a company that failed to maintain their resorts, went cheap on everything, routinely lied to owners to make a buck and was forced out of business by regulators that are drinking something other than soft drinks.

IMHO, the problem is pretty simple. Those that bought and held Sunterra wanted an inexpensive middle of the road to low rent timeshare system and were happy in that system. Own cheap and trade into the expensive resorts was a mantra I heard more than once. Now comes culture shock when the new owners of the el'cheapo company try to bring it up to industry leading standards.

I said it early on. DRI is going to rebuild Sunterra and they weren't going to do it with money out of DRI's pocket. It was going to be done with owners money. You'd better like the direction DRI was going becasue, the way the old Sunterra was set up, DRI had control and was going to keep control. Sunterra set you guys up with their trust based ownership. Sunterra failed even to keep control of a system they had total control of. DRI both saw and seized that opportunity and is making the most of it.

[mace Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mace]

In my not so humble opinion you have created a rather remarkable and annoying straw man argument that if one is critical of Diamond's view that Sunterra had a bunch of lousy resorts that they had to clean up and bring to a new luxurious level which caused the MFs to increase dramatically, or one must love Sunterra and all their sales practices. I think that Sunterra maximized profits on the sale of resorts and later trust points, I think Diamond's angle includes a more focussed view on yearly profits from the yearly MFs at the resorts. Doug prior to Diamond ownership how many of these lousy resorts did you frequent, are your opinions even first hand knowledge. In any case believe me I'm not trying to offend and Diamond has added some value to my ownership such as the increased number of resorts in Europe, but apples are apples and oranges are oranges and the MFs at Bent Creek are out of line, and it has nothing to do with sales tactics at old Sunterra because the former MFs were in line with the industry.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

In my not so humble opinion you have created a rather remarkable and annoying straw man argument that if one is critical of Diamond's view that Sunterra had a bunch of lousy resorts that they had to clean up and bring to a new luxurious level which caused the MFs to increase dramatically, or one must love Sunterra and all their sales practices. I think that Sunterra maximized profits on the sale of resorts and later trust points, I think Diamond's angle includes a more focussed view on yearly profits from the yearly MFs at the resorts. Doug prior to Diamond ownership how many of these lousy resorts did you frequent, are your opinions even first hand knowledge. In any case believe me I'm not trying to offend and Diamond has added some value to my ownership such as the increased number of resorts in Europe, but apples are apples and oranges are oranges and the MFs at Bent Creek are out of line, and it has nothing to do with sales tactics at old Sunterra because the former MFs were in line with the industry.

My how things have changed. Just a year ago I was labled as Mr. Negative when it came to DRI and some decided my posts about DRI just weren't worth reading. Now it comes full circle where I'm creating strawman arguements trying to support DRI.

To me, it's simple.

1. Sunterra failed. Not only did they fail they did it in Epic proportions (yes there's a pun in there if you know a little SUnterra history).

2. The Trust based ownership gives the management company full control over the direction of the system.

3. DRI wasn't happy with (nor were the former Sunterra owners from what I remember reading) the resorts or the service platform of the old company (remember reps in India that didn't know the system and were of no help?).

4. DRI decided to "upgrade" all aspects of the old Sunterra.

5. Those upgrades cost money and DRI wasn't going to pull that money out of their back pockets. I said this in the beginning and I'm saying it again. DRI will improve Sunterra but it will come out of the pockets of the old Sunterra owners.

Strawman arguement or not, the system is better, the resorts have better quality soft goods, repairs that needed to be made were made, ineffective management was replaced, the service center was moved to America with English as a first language reps and cost's have skyrocketed but, are still in line with the top timeshare resorts systems in America. That's about where we're at as I see it.

[opkansas Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close opkansas]

My how things have changed. Just a year ago I was labled as Mr. Negative when it came to DRI and some decided my posts about DRI just weren't worth reading. Now it comes full circle where I'm creating strawman arguements trying to support DRI.

To me, it's simple.

1. Sunterra failed. Not only did they fail they did it in Epic proportions (yes there's a pun in there if you know a little SUnterra history).

2. The Trust based ownership gives the management company full control over the direction of the system.

3. DRI wasn't happy with (nor were the former Sunterra owners from what I remember reading) the resorts or the service platform of the old company (remember reps in India that didn't know the system and were of no help?).

4. DRI decided to "upgrade" all aspects of the old Sunterra.

5. Those upgrades cost money and DRI wasn't going to pull that money out of their back pockets. I said this in the beginning and I'm saying it again. DRI will improve Sunterra but it will come out of the pockets of the old Sunterra owners.

Strawman arguement or not, the system is better, the resorts have better quality soft goods, repairs that needed to be made were made, ineffective management was replaced, the service center was moved to America with English as a first language reps and cost's have skyrocketed but, are still in line with the top timeshare resorts systems in America. That's about where we're at as I see it.

Are you in the middle of a DREAM? Are you being paid by DRI? I DISAGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT!

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Are you in the middle of a DREAM? Are you being paid by DRI? I DISAGREE WITH YOUR ASSESSMENT!

Being paid by DRI? You MUST be kidding. Go back and read a few of my posts from last year and you'll understand why S. Cloobeck sent me a personal invitation to no longer be an owner with DRI. The problem is, he never responded to my offer to sell back both my units at the price agreed upon with the Devbuyback offer I had accepted before the markets crashed.

I'm not a huge DRI fan or supporter but, I will give credit where credit is due. Sunterra mismanged their resorts. Sunterra went bankrupt. Sunterra's assets were purchased by DRI. DRI moved their call center from India back to the United States. DRI increased THE Club membership fee to cover those expenses and pay for Interval Gold membership. DRI has replaced all the bedding, linens, towels, toiletries et....with better quality than what Sunterra had. DRI is in the process of upgrading many of the units at the resorts they manage. DRI made quick repairs to pools in at least two resorts where Sunterra hadn't even looked like they were doing anything. DRI reached an agreement with UK owners over complaints against Sunterra and got rid of the Scambulance.

I really don't care who agree's and who doesn't agree. DRI has made improvements over where Sunterra had been when THEY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS. At issue is how much owners are willing to pay for those improvements.

[mace Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mace]

First of all Sunterrra Europe is a separate issue and had to do with sales practices and misinformation, as someone who went to these timeshares before and after DRI no significant improvements exists. Diamond in fact sold off one of the more desirable locations in Carlton Court, because it would raise our MFs too drastically. Really a couple of years later who's drinking that cup of Kool-Aid, and more recently they have been pressuring a couple of more resorts to possibly a similar end Wychnor Park country Club - Timesharetalk Forum

Doug get real you're citing bedspreads, website design and contact services as a justification for a 2 bedroom unit at Bent Creek having around a $500 increase in MFs per week $500*52=$26,000 per unit per year. Would you really stake your integrity on two points Sunterra resorts needed to be updated but Sunterra's use of fees was efficient and had no waste in the system and used every MF dollar properly and thus a MF increase was needed even though owner controlled H.O.A. timeshares that are 20 years of age and older still have low fees and operate quality resorts. Or are you arguing that Sunterra allowed these resorts to fall apart and Diamond is having to place capital back in them at an alarming rate. In the case of the latter why is their no significant improvement in the units 2 years down the road except for brand labeling of soap and a pillow case or two. Or is it your well thought out opinion that the problem was unbranded soap and pillow cases. Or maybe each year around 20% of the increase is going directly to administrative fees, administrative fees you can't even buy soap with administrative fees certainly not Diamond branded soap! That equals to about 144% in there administrative fees in two years a nice raise if you can get it.

[Carlos Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Carlos]

I have seen the before and after

I was an Epic member before Sunterra. We were promised that Sunterra was going to make things better and fix things up. I was not pleased with having to have more points to stay in a property at peak season when they took over when I had no problem when it was Epic. I was anxious to see improvement.

I had stayed at the Lake Havasu London Bridge Resort when it was under Epic about 11 years ago. I really liked it. However, Epic started to neglect it and when Sunterra came it was a place I never ever stayed at. In fact, I loved it because it was right on the water. I believe Epic retained most of the units there and do now, but I never ever stay there because it is run down and a mess.

I also stayed at Scottsdale Links. That too was great but was get run down. I used to stay there for the Fiesta Bowl each year. I stopped because it was not up to snuff. DRI did some great repairs to the units. They fixed the pool and have made some nice upgrades. Since I love its location, I go there. Now mind you I own at Marriott too or can use my points to exchange. However, both the Scottsdale Links and the Scottdale Village Mirage are great.

I used to go to the Palm Springs property as well. It became run down under Sunterra. I visited it and saw that DRI was redoing the units and making the two bedrooms really, really nice. It's not as nice as the Desert Springs Marriott and the Shadow Ridge, but it has a great location that I love. It's right near the main drag of Palm Springs. Now that the accommodations have been approved, I can think about staying there again.

I have stayed at the Lake Tahoe Resort and the Grand Beach and have seen improvements there as well. There is no denying that DRI is improving the resorts. The units are not as fancy as Marriott but often they are significantly larger units. I like that very much.

I don't work for DRI. I have complained about their maintenance fees like everyone else. I don't like people getting a week for less than my maintenace fees. However, I do like going into nice updated rooms. I have 30,000 of those points and I can use them and I do use them. I have a lot of flexibility too.

My point is that DRI is really trying to do something. That is more than one can say about a lot of the others.

[DRIvaDiva Banned Find all posts View Profile Close DRIvaDiva]

I was an Epic member before Sunterra. We were promised that Sunterra was going to make things better and fix things up. I was not pleased with having to have more points to stay in a property at peak season when they took over when I had no problem when it was Epic. I was anxious to see improvement.

I had stayed at the Lake Havasu London Bridge Resort when it was under Epic about 11 years ago. I really liked it. However, Epic started to neglect it and when Sunterra came it was a place I never ever stayed at. In fact, I loved it because it was right on the water. I believe Epic retained most of the units there and do now, but I never ever stay there because it is run down and a mess.

I also stayed at Scottsdale Links. That too was great but was get run down. I used to stay there for the Fiesta Bowl each year. I stopped because it was not up to snuff. DRI did some great repairs to the units. They fixed the pool and have made some nice upgrades. Since I love its location, I go there. Now mind you I own at Marriott too or can use my points to exchange. However, both the Scottsdale Links and the Scottdale Village Mirage are great.

I used to go to the Palm Springs property as well. It became run down under Sunterra. I visited it and saw that DRI was redoing the units and making the two bedrooms really, really nice. It's not as nice as the Desert Springs Marriott and the Shadow Ridge, but it has a great location that I love. It's right near the main drag of Palm Springs. Now that the accommodations have been approved, I can think about staying there again.

I have stayed at the Lake Tahoe Resort and the Grand Beach and have seen improvements there as well. There is no denying that DRI is improving the resorts. The units are not as fancy as Marriott but often they are significantly larger units. I like that very much.

I don't work for DRI. I have complained about their maintenance fees like everyone else. I don't like people getting a week for less than my maintenace fees. However, I do like going into nice updated rooms. I have 30,000 of those points and I can use them and I do use them. I have a lot of flexibility too.

My point is that DRI is really trying to do something. That is more than one can say about a lot of the others.

DRI is trying to do something but they are doing it on their own with no input from Bent Creek or any other owners. But owners are on the boards, always in a minority with no say, I've spoken to some of them. I just saw this release from yesterday, I think mods have posted it before in older iterations

Diamond Resorts International® Announces Creation of Owner Advisory Board
Monday, October 26th, 2009 at 04:42 pm
Diamond Resorts International® (DRI), a global leader in the vacation ownership industry, has established an Owner Advisory Board (OAB) as part of its continued commitment to building a consumer-centric company with extraordinary service for the company's more than 360,000 owners and members worldwide.

The OAB members will contribute and share in discussions regarding new projects, new products and new programs with DRI corporate leaders. DRI recognizes the importance of listening to owners as this insight is essential to DRI's development and joint mission to grow critical, enduring owner/management relationships. The OAB will allow DRI management to gain first-hand perspective and advice from those who have chosen vacation ownership with the company.

"One of the aspects of the business model for Diamond Resorts International® is to focus on an open communications platform with our owners and members. Feedback from the those who have chosen vacation ownership with us is a significant, driving force in the decisions we make," says Stephen J. Cloobeck , Chairman and CEO of DRI. "With customer feedback and guest satisfaction at the forefront of our hospitality brand, establishing the Owner Advisory Board was a natural step for us to take in order to provide effortless vacation moments for every guest, every time."

Representatives from the United States and Europe sit on the Owner Advisory Board.

Diamond Resorts International®, based in Las Vegas, Nev., is one of the largest vacation ownership companies in the world with more than 110 branded and affiliated resorts throughout the continental United States and Hawaii, Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Europe. Offering simplicity, choice and comfort to its more than 360,000 owners and members through the branded-service of more than 5,000 team members worldwide, Diamond Resorts International® is dedicated to providing its guests with effortless and relaxing vacation experiences every time, for a lifetime.

Who are these owners, nobody seems to know, wherever I have asked?

[DRIvaDiva Banned Find all posts View Profile Close DRIvaDiva]

First of all Sunterrra Europe is a separate issue and had to do with sales practices and misinformation, as someone who went to these timeshares before and after DRI no significant improvements exists. Diamond in fact sold off one of the more desirable locations in Carlton Court, because it would raise our MFs too drastically. Really a couple of years later who's drinking that cup of Kool-Aid, and more recently they have been pressuring a couple of more resorts to possibly a similar end Wychnor Park country Club - Timesharetalk Forum

Doug get real you're citing bedspreads, website design and contact services as a justification for a 2 bedroom unit at Bent Creek having around a $500 increase in MFs per week $500*52=$26,000 per unit per year. Would you really stake your integrity on two points Sunterra resorts needed to be updated but Sunterra's use of fees was efficient and had no waste in the system and used every MF dollar properly and thus a MF increase was needed even though owner controlled H.O.A. timeshares that are 20 years of age and older still have low fees and operate quality resorts. Or are you arguing that Sunterra allowed these resorts to fall apart and Diamond is having to place capital back in them at an alarming rate. In the case of the latter why is their no significant improvement in the units 2 years down the road except for brand labeling of soap and a pillow case or two. Or is it your well thought out opinion that the problem was unbranded soap and pillow cases. Or maybe each year around 20% of the increase is going directly to administrative fees, administrative fees you can't even buy soap with administrative fees certainly not Diamond branded soap! That equals to about 144% in there administrative fees in two years a nice raise if you can get it.

They did it because they could do it. From what I've seen, they made BIG money when they sold the London property and they reinvested a SMALL part of it in another property not in an urban area that 'represented' the same amount of points. So members have the same points pool, members no longer have London, DRI has MONEY in THEIR pocket, the owners got none of the profits.

[DRIvaDiva Banned Find all posts View Profile Close DRIvaDiva]

Being paid by DRI? You MUST be kidding. Go back and read a few of my posts from last year and you'll understand why S. Cloobeck sent me a personal invitation to no longer be an owner with DRI. The problem is, he never responded to my offer to sell back both my units at the price agreed upon with the Devbuyback offer I had accepted before the markets crashed.

I'm not a huge DRI fan or supporter but, I will give credit where credit is due. Sunterra mismanged their resorts. Sunterra went bankrupt. Sunterra's assets were purchased by DRI. DRI moved their call center from India back to the United States. DRI increased THE Club membership fee to cover those expenses and pay for Interval Gold membership. DRI has replaced all the bedding, linens, towels, toiletries et....with better quality than what Sunterra had. DRI is in the process of upgrading many of the units at the resorts they manage. DRI made quick repairs to pools in at least two resorts where Sunterra hadn't even looked like they were doing anything. DRI reached an agreement with UK owners over complaints against Sunterra and got rid of the Scambulance.

I really don't care who agree's and who doesn't agree. DRI has made improvements over where Sunterra had been when THEY WENT OUT OF BUSINESS. At issue is how much owners are willing to pay for those improvements.

Could you share the text of your 'personal' invitation with us?

[mace Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close mace]

My point is that DRI is really trying to do something. That is more than one can say about a lot of the others.

They have given themselves around a 50% raise and practically doubled the MFs, I'm glad you found the resorts to be more to your liking. However my complaint is about value, the MFs are inflated and the deeded owners have no say about the direction of the resort due to the Trust voting block. Bottom line goto Bent Creek lets talk specifics do you believe the 26,000 dollars increase in MFs per unit stayed at that location or into the pockets of DRI. By their own admission they gave themselves a near 50% raise. I don't buy for a minute that this mickey mouse enterprise has my interests at heart, why do the resorts show us an itemized list of costs if we don't like what we see what cam we do about it? This system makes a mockery of H.O.A. I'm confident that Trust voting blocks will be a thing of the past in the near future.

[dougp26364 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close dougp26364]

Could you share the text of your 'personal' invitation with us?

No.