Deeded in Hawaii vs. US Collection

[JAGIII Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JAGIII]

If I don't plan on going to Hawaii very often for the next 10 years, and am deeded at the KBC, would I be better off transferring over to the US collection and save on maintenance fees?

I currently have 3500 pts, and could purchase another 1500 pts for $4000, with the ability to also purchase more pts on resale and bring them into the Club for free. If I did this, can anyone tell me what I should expect to pay on the resale market for additional points? I see that some go for next to nothing but would imagine that DRI would exercise their first right of refusal, wouldn't they?

Thanks.

[Carlos Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Carlos]

Be Careful

If I don't plan on going to Hawaii very often for the next 10 years, and am deeded at the KBC, would I be better off transferring over to the US collection and save on maintenance fees?

I currently have 3500 pts, and could purchase another 1500 pts for $4000, with the ability to also purchase more pts on resale and bring them into the Club for free. If I did this, can anyone tell me what I should expect to pay on the resale market for additional points? I see that some go for next to nothing but would imagine that DRI would exercise their first right of refusal, wouldn't they?

Thanks.

There are a few things that you should be aware of before making the kind of change you are thinking about. First, If you only are going to have 3500 points for your KBC unit, you will not be able to go far with those few points. You need at least 10 to 15 thousand points to really have some flexibility.

Also, beause you buy points resale, it does not mean you can bring them into the Club. You can only use those points for the US collecton properties. It is expensive to bring the resale points into the club.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Also, beause you buy points resale, it does not mean you can bring them into the Club. You can only use those points for the US collecton properties. It is expensive to bring the resale points into the club.

Unless he negotiates the right to add resale points to the Club as part of his buyin to the Club.

So if he can buy 1500 more from DRI to add to his current 3500, then add 10,000 more acquired via resale he can be at 15,000.

****

One issue to consider is the fixed fees of being in a trust. With only 3500 points in the Hawaii collection that annual trust admin fee makes those points quite expensive. If he buys his resales in Hawaii his annual fees per point owned will be less.

He needs to compare that total bill with what his total bill would be if he owned in two different trusts, where he would now be paying two trust admin fees.

Another alternative when he buys in might be to exit the Hawaii trust entirely. so that his 5000 developer points would be in the US Trust. Then he could add his resales to the US trust and have only the one admin fee, and the overall maintenance fees might be lower as well.

[Carlos Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Carlos]

Know What You Want

JagIII,

It will important to know what you want and what you are getting into. There is a difference between getting into the US Collection and getting into the Club. These are the same thing. The Club will give you access to all of DRI resorts and affiliates throughout the world. The US Collection only give you access to only the resorts in that collection. I guess you could also have access to Hawaii too since you would be giving up the deed to a Hawaii resort.

T.R. Oglodytes post is correct about the Hawaii Collection fees being expesive and you having to pay additional fees with the US Trust added. You should consider his suggestion too.

Yes, there have been deals cut in the past to give up one's deed and then buy some point into the Club with the option to bring other points in in the future. I would get it in writing first and then buy the additional points.

More importantly, you need to know what your goal is. I cannot stress that enough. Are you going to need one bedrooms or two? Are you flexible in your travel dates? Are your traveling habits going to change due to children getting older soon or retirement? These are just a few things that could influence how you may use points or the amount you are going to need. Using your points for accommodations are the best use of your points hands down. Using them for anything else and you are getting less value.

This if just an fyi for you. I love DRI and it works well for me. I have a lot of points and use them, but sometimes I really plan trips just to use them. For example, I am staying at the Marriott Newport Coast Villas right now. I used the Club Select Program to get this. It is a great resort. I have my son and his friends here with us for the weekend. The resort is 15 minutes from my house and 10 minutes to work. I will stay here for the week, but I did not want to waste the points. Fortunately, the weather has been great!

I just want you to consider these before you jump into it. You may have already taken these things into account.

Well, I have to get ready for a massage. This place is great!

[JAGIII Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JAGIII]

Thanks for all of the good information. I will definitely do my research before I rush into anything.

As you mentioned, it is important to know exactly what my vacationing needs are going to be. To answer Carlos' questions, we are flexible right now with our travel as our kids are very young (3 months and 2 years old), but that will change in a few years once we have to work around a school schedule. Obviously, with a family of 4 and maybe more someday, studios definitely aren't going to cut it, and a one bedroom may even be tight. So size of unit will also be an issue. I guess no matter how you cut it, we will most likely want to add points at some point.

As for minimizing fees, what do I need to know? Sounds like the different "collections" and deeds have separate admin fees? How much do these run? And Hawaii is more expensive, is that correct as well? So if I do add points and can combine everything into the US collection, it would probably be a wise move? Especially if I don't plan on travelling to Hawaii very often (have been there 4 out of the last 5 years, but that was prior to having 2 kids).

How do the maintenance fees work? I know right now I am paying about $525 per year on my 3500 pts at KBC. It sounds like MF are based on $0.10 per point for the US Collection, is that correct? Does that include the annual Club or II dues as well? Is that the rate regardless of how many points you have, or does that lessen once you get into elite status? Any other perks to being in Elite status?

Anything I need to be careful with, when looking at E-Bay auctions for additional points?

Feel free to advise as to what you would do in this situation.

Thanks.

[Carlos Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Carlos]

Thanks for all of the good information. I will definitely do my research before I rush into anything.

As you mentioned, it is important to know exactly what my vacationing needs are going to be. To answer Carlos' questions, we are flexible right now with our travel as our kids are very young (3 months and 2 years old), but that will change in a few years once we have to work around a school schedule. Obviously, with a family of 4 and maybe more someday, studios definitely aren't going to cut it, and a one bedroom may even be tight. So size of unit will also be an issue. I guess no matter how you cut it, we will most likely want to add points at some point.

As for minimizing fees, what do I need to know? Sounds like the different "collections" and deeds have separate admin fees? How much do these run? And Hawaii is more expensive, is that correct as well? So if I do add points and can combine everything into the US collection, it would probably be a wise move? Especially if I don't plan on travelling to Hawaii very often (have been there 4 out of the last 5 years, but that was prior to having 2 kids).

How do the maintenance fees work? I know right now I am paying about $525 per year on my 3500 pts at KBC. It sounds like MF are based on $0.10 per point for the US Collection, is that correct? Does that include the annual Club or II dues as well? Is that the rate regardless of how many points you have, or does that lessen once you get into elite status? Any other perks to being in Elite status?

Anything I need to be careful with, when looking at E-Bay auctions for additional points?

Feel free to advise as to what you would do in this situation.

Thanks.

There are some people on this board that will tell you to not change your deed for points. They feel that the deed is tangible and at least you will always have that as opposed to points that would leave you with nothing if the company should tank. I have been with timeshares since 2001 and my original purchase was very, very cheap compared to today's prices and I bought from the developer. That developer went out of business. Another developer bought them and they went out of business and now I am with DRI. My options went from about 7 properties when I originally bought back in 2001 to over 100 DRI properties. So everything depends. There seems to be no absolutes. That's the way life is anyway. Nothing is guaranteed.

While your kids are small you will have lots of flexibility to take vacations. You can make reservations in less than 60 days and you will get to use half of the points to stay at DRI resorts. This can be a great savings and give you more for your money. With 2 kids you will need two bedrooms. I would look at the Diamond Selections book or PDF and look at the places you would like to go and see how many points it would cost for you stay in 2 bedrooms during the high times to get an idea of what you would need for a one or two week stay each year. As your kids get older, you will need to travel during high or peak periods so to make reservations in advance of about a year would require maximum points.

Maintenance fees were about $0.104 per point last year for The Club plus the Club fee of over or about $250. These fees for have increased a great deal over the last couple of years. With a young family, I caution you of committing to too many points as it is a lifetime committment that could be a burden as life's ups and downs hit you. They will no doubt hit you. Just be careful.

You asked about Elite status. I have 30,000 points which makes me Gold Elite. The only benefits I get besides having the pleasure of paying more in maintenance fees is the ability to upgrade units for a fee. I can go to the next highest level in a room category at a specific resort provided it is available. One must be careful about this because it can be misleading. It does not mean you automatically get upgraded from a 1 bedroom to a 2 bedroom. It could mean you are upgraded from a 1 bedroom to a deluxe one bedroom. The cost is about $49 to upgrade and I can do this 3 times as a gold elite member. Platinum Elites get unlimited upgrades for free. DRI will try to sell you on getting all of these points each time you hit a level they will try to give you a reason to go to the next level until you go platinum. The tried to get me, but I just did not need any more points. The upgrades are nice but how many vacations could I go on in a year and still keep my job. You will have to figure that out for you and your family. I must admit that I have taken a group of family members on vacation and it's great. As my children have gotten older and I now have some grandkids, it's nice to get 3 or four different units for everyone. However, you now have to think about that. I personally don't believe you should try to be elite unless you know that you will have the time. Remember the maintenance fees are every year. I paid over $3300 last year. I am not independently wealthy, maybe you are. I pay it each year, but I make sure that I get my money's worth. Elite in my opinion is not worth it. They did add something new this year where if you are elite, you can be placed on a waitlist for a property that is not available to you when you try to reserve it. When the property is available for the dates you are requesting, you will then be notified. I think that you can do this for up to three places.

If it were me, I would look for the closest DRI properties closest to me in areas that I would mind staying for a vacation on a regular basis. Places you may be able to drive to for a vacation. I would look at the number of points necessary for a two bedroom. I would look at my pocketbook and determine if I can afford such a luxury expense with young children. I would do research on the prospective resorts on sites like Timeshare Users Group (TUG) and then and only then would I consider buying. First, you need to see if you can negitiate bringing in the resale points into the Club. That will be key. However, I would suggest you read up on TUG and here before you make any moves.
Be very, very cautious because you are very, very new to the game to be certain. At least you are on the board learning before paying.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

Ok -

I have become a big fan of the mini-systems. If there is a mini-system out there that overlays with about 75% of the places you want to visit, I think that's pretty attractive. With that in place you can largely eliminate the business of waiting for an exchange. If it's a points system you can save or borrow points, split weeks, etc. to get a lot of flexibility.

So the key place you should start with is identifying what, if any, mini-system will fit your needs. I wouldn't lock myself into DRI just because that's what you already own. If it's not the best fit for you then dump and get something that does match your situation.

[JAGIII Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close JAGIII]

Well I did it. I took DRI up on their deal of an additional 1500 pts annually for $4000. They also threw in an additional 1000 pts for 2010 or 2011 usage. And more importantly, it is written into the contract that I can bring in a resale of up to 10,000 pts for no additional charge during the next 12 months. If I went for the entire 10,000 that would put me at 15,000 pts annually. I doubt I will go for that many, but don't want to totally rule it out.

Now I am researching how many points are needed for the different destinations that we would like to frequent, to get an idea of how many points we should get in resale. This is a one shot deal, and I don't plan on buying more points for many, many years, if ever.

Any advice for going through this process? It looks like in the resale market, you can pick up whatever amount of points you want for next to nothing (except closing costs and resort transfer fees). Has anyone found any places where the seller even pays these fees? I would think that would be unlikely, as I have read on the forum that with the "Collections" you can just not pay your bills, and DRI takes it back from you. Is that correct?

I think I made the right move by ditching HI, since I didn't even have enough points to be able to book in advance, the fees were higher, and the next 20 years will not include too many trips there (but had been there 4 times in the last 5 years). But let me know what you think, I always have the 15 day window to change my mind

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

I think I made the right move by ditching HI, since I didn't even have enough points to be able to book in advance, the fees were higher, and the next 20 years will not include too many trips there (but had been there 4 times in the last 5 years). But let me know what you think, I always have the 15 day window to change my mind

The only reason to have stayed in the Hawaii collection is to be able to take advantage of the Home Resort Advantage for the Hawaii Collection resorts (which, despite the Hawaii name, includes resorts in Las Vegas and Sedona and will likely have other resorts added to it in the future). If you weren't going to use that, then I think you certainly were wise to convert from the Hawaii trust to the mainland trust.

At this point I think you need to be aware that you can pick up extra points either by either buying a deed at one of the resorts that is also part of the mainland trust, or by buying someone UDI interest in the Trust itself. Be sure you understand the differences and nuances between those, and what the implications are on your ability to make reservations, on your annual costs, and on your ease of selling at some point in the future.