We need to direct more Marriott people here

[BWolf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BWolf]

Apparently there are two power abusing moderators over there. One male, one female. Neither likes humor, dissent, or any free expression of opinion. It is the party line or nothing. Either be an uptight anal orifice like us or get off our forum is the message these two send.

I really like this comment: Other than the crossover bunch, and independent thinkers, I doubt that will change.

I'm interested in what Marriott is doing, but learning the truth is almost impossible. If the truth appears anywhere, it will be here.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

I am trying to read the legal documents but the language is too difficult to understand for me.

Did you read these posts OY? This is scary stuff.

This is very different from DVC in that a given DVC resort will always have a set number of points associated with it. For example, if the points associated with all the units in all the weeks at (say) AKV is 1 million per year, this can NEVER change. DVC can change the points required for a given night or week, but if they make one day or week "cost" more points then some other day or week will "cost" less. The total number of points needed for all owners to book a given resort in a year is always the same. New resorts may have higher points requirements, but your home resort will always have the same total number of points. And the total yearly points allocation for other current DVC resorts is a known, fixed entity. So you can continue to use those resorts with your current owned points and have a pretty good idea of the points you will need.

In this new Marriott system, points are not tied to anything real. Marriott can increase requirements as high as they would like. Your owned week will always get you a week at your home resort. But you have no way of knowing how many points it will take in 10 years to get in to any Marriott property, old or new. You have no way of knowing how many points Marriott will decide to assign to your owned week. There are no rules that govern what Marriott may do in regards to the points system (other than those set by Marriott, of course).

H

What heathpack wrote is scary. Unfortunately -- and I hope I'm wrong -- it appears to be true.

I've looked through various online documents trying to find language that protects owners who opt for the Marriott Vacation Club Destinations Exchange Program against point chart adjustments that devalue exchange points over time.

I've been unsuccessful.

I would not object to point chart changes that reallocate points to keep demand even. (That's what Disney Vacation Club does.) But the total number of points over the period of a year should not change!

For example... If a resort has two six month seasons, with higher season weeks set at 3,400 points and lower season weeks set at 2,600 points, I would not object if the point requirements are adjusted to 3,800 and 2,200 points, respectively, if it turns out the the demand is out of balance. In other words, if the chart goes up one place, it goes down elsewhere in such a way that there's no net change in total points across the year.

Using the example above, if the high season went up to 3,800 points, but the low season remained at 2,600 points, the effect would be to devalue points. And, of course, it would be even worse if the high season went up to 3,800 points and the low season went up to 3,000 points.

Has anyone found language that protects the value of the annual allocation of exchange points?

Or is heathpack correct (as I fear is the case)?

To me this would be the difference between a system that is worth considering and one that should absolutely be avoided!

[BWolf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BWolf]

iconnections: I've given up trying to read anything over there. That is, indeed, scary.

I have a hunch Marriott took some of the worst practices of existing points systems and implemented those in order to: increase Marriott control and devalue existing owners holdings, but I don't know that for a fact.

Basically, I'm hoping that you and some of the other Marriott owners, and some of the more knowledgeable about timeshare point systems in general, figure this out and post some accurate information here.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

Let us here try to keep the discussion on topic - if you want to complain about moderators of another online board, please direct the complaints to that board - not here.
Most BBSs have a "report a post" button and if you feel someone has been abusive, please use it.

Thanks for your cooperation and continued discussion about the new Marriott Program.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

iconnections: I've given up trying to read anything over there. That is, indeed, scary.

I have a hunch Marriott took some of the worst practices of existing points systems and implemented those in order to: increase Marriott control and devalue existing owners holdings, but I don't know that for a fact.

Basically, I'm hoping that you and some of the other Marriott owners, and some of the more knowledgeable about timeshare point systems in general, figure this out and post some accurate information here.

Have you read the legal documents? You can also go to II and read more there. Both type of members have their own web page now just like with RCI.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I agree......It's very nice to see people posting about Marriott's new system. Everyone should continue to do so, as this new system is hugely different then their weeks system. However, lets not let this thread turn into a thread that's bashing other sites/moderators.

Please, let's stick to the topic!

Let us here try to keep the discussion on topic - if you want to complain about moderators of another online board, please direct the complaints to that board - not here.
Most BBSs have a "report a post" button and if you feel someone has been abusive, please use it.

Thanks for your cooperation and continued discussion about the new Marriott Program.

[rikkis_playpen Diamond Club Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close rikkis_playpen]

The answer is the same as always- keep you wallet in your pocket!

I have to admit that I've only really started reading the legal docs this morning- and I've been visiting OY less and less so while I've looked at that monstrous thread once or twice, I haven't followed it at all.

Off the cuff, my thought is that my recommendation will stay pretty much the same as always when a developer repackages their vacation ownership product into a points program. If you have been happy with your weeks usage up to this point- simply keep your weeks ownership! The grass is rarely greener on the other side!

If you own a week that you haven't been using at your home resort and can't seem to get quality exchanges from it- convert ONLY if you really believe that it will give you some usage options in the future (perception in this case can often lead to increased usage- regardless of any actual change in opportunity)..

But, people who do convert still have to understand that the conversion money you spend will likely NEVER add one penny to the future resale value of the property.

In most circumstances, if you own a week that you never use- your best option is simply to sell or give it away and cut your losses now!

***

Point conversion is a program designed to do only one thing- create a buzz and repackage a product just so it can be resold again to the current owner base. Conversion has nothing to do with giving owners more choices or flexibility- it's always about the cash! Obviously, this will be a success on both those issues for Marriott.

On the flip side- there may actually be a small positive from this roll out for current weeks owners who don't convert (I know this is a divisive subject, so I apologize in advance if you don't share my feeling on this). I'm aware of several very recent sales where Marriott has finally begun to exercise ROFR again. I haven't seen the documents to support this yet (which is why it's not shown on the ROFR thread)- but I have absolute confidence that three very recent contracts at an Orlando resort were taken. As Marriott focuses on reacquisition to add inventory to the points bucket- it will help to again stabilize pricing for certain properties.

If you think about it from a developer perspective, it makes perfect sense.. Marriott abandons ROFR for a period of time- allowing the free market to push pricing down to levels that have never been seen before.. Then- Marriott swoops in and begins their reacquisition program at target resorts, saving a ton of money because of the lower pricing! Plus, as the reacquisition process begins to push prices back up- they use that information as propaganda to validate the "positive" impact of their development of a points program.

***

When it's all said and done- Marriott resorts will continue to be some of the best properties in the world for the next decade. When we stay at a resort, we'll be thrilled with the property as always. If we find we are getting fewer opportunities to get those reservations over time- we'll simply start staying elsewhere and get rid of our Marriott ownerships..

In time, the change to developer marketing of points will likely devalue secondary market prices of the overall product as a whole- but I think everyone understands that this is inevitable in timeshare ownership regardless of the developer or the usage system. Over time- timeshare prices always fall! The only real value over time always comes from your usage and enjoyment....

***

I'm afraid I've rambled quite a bit- but I hope my main point comes through..

Change is always uncomfortable- and the reality is that we already know that developers have no true concern for individual owners. They are in this only to make money!

But we are all pretty savvy here in this venue! The best we can ever hope for is to support each other with shared knowledge and try to squeeze as much usage and enjoyment as possible from any timeshare product. I'm pretty confident that no matter how hard Marriott tries to screw it up- we'll still manage to get some fantastic vacations in the future!

[BWolf Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close BWolf]

I have to admit that I've only really started reading the legal docs this morning- and I've been visiting OY less and less so while I've looked at that monstrous thread once or twice, I haven't followed it at all.

Off the cuff, my thought is that my recommendation will stay pretty much the same as always when a developer repackages their vacation ownership product into a points program. If you have been happy with your weeks usage up to this point- simply keep your weeks ownership! The grass is rarely greener on the other side!

If you own a week that you haven't been using at your home resort and can't seem to get quality exchanges from it- convert ONLY if you really believe that it will give you some usage options in the future (perception in this case can often lead to increased usage- regardless of any actual change in opportunity)..

But, people who do convert still have to understand that the conversion money you spend will likely NEVER add one penny to the future resale value of the property.

In most circumstances, if you own a week that you never use- your best option is simply to sell or give it away and cut your losses now!

***

Point conversion is a program designed to do only one thing- create a buzz and repackage a product just so it can be resold again to the current owner base. Conversion has nothing to do with giving owners more choices or flexibility- it's always about the cash! Obviously, this will be a success on both those issues for Marriott.

On the flip side- there may actually be a small positive from this roll out for current weeks owners who don't convert (I know this is a divisive subject, so I apologize in advance if you don't share my feeling on this). I'm aware of several very recent sales where Marriott has finally begun to exercise ROFR again. I haven't seen the documents to support this yet (which is why it's not shown on the ROFR thread)- but I have absolute confidence that three very recent contracts at an Orlando resort were taken. As Marriott focuses on reacquisition to add inventory to the points bucket- it will help to again stabilize pricing for certain properties.

If you think about it from a developer perspective, it makes perfect sense.. Marriott abandons ROFR for a period of time- allowing the free market to push pricing down to levels that have never been seen before.. Then- Marriott swoops in and begins their reacquisition program at target resorts, saving a ton of money because of the lower pricing! Plus, as the reacquisition process begins to push prices back up- they use that information as propaganda to validate the "positive" impact of their development of a points program.

***

When it's all said and done- Marriott resorts will continue to be some of the best properties in the world for the next decade. When we stay at a resort, we'll be thrilled with the property as always. If we find we are getting fewer opportunities to get those reservations over time- we'll simply start staying elsewhere and get rid of our Marriott ownerships..

In time, the change to developer marketing of points will likely devalue secondary market prices of the overall product as a whole- but I think everyone understands that this is inevitable in timeshare ownership regardless of the developer or the usage system. Over time- timeshare prices always fall! The only real value over time always comes from your usage and enjoyment....

***

I'm afraid I've rambled quite a bit- but I hope my main point comes through..

Change is always uncomfortable- and the reality is that we already know that developers have no true concern for individual owners. They are in this only to make money!

But we are all pretty savvy here in this venue! The best we can ever hope for is to support each other with shared knowledge and try to squeeze as much usage and enjoyment as possible from any timeshare product. I'm pretty confident that no matter how hard Marriott tries to screw it up- we'll still manage to get some fantastic vacations in the future!

Best advice so far.

[billymach4 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close billymach4]

I agree......It's very nice to see people posting about Marriott's new system. Everyone should continue to do so, as this new system is hugely different then their weeks system. However, lets not let this thread turn into a thread that's bashing other sites/moderators.

Please, let's stick to the topic!

Yes,

I agree. Time to move on. It is behind me now.

After all this is all intended to be for our leisure, not for drama.