Impact of Destination Points on current Marriott owners

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I believe that there are supposed to be two totally separate inventory pools available to weeks and points, so there would not be direct head to head competition between the two groups. The fact that the first day to call in is not always the same for the two groups seems consistent with that sort of a regime, otherwise one group or the other would always have an advantage.

Now, the manner in which inventory will be allocated between the two pools, who knows.....

I just read that the point pool will be allocated ......point weeks, enrolled weeks that have not been traded for points, and weeks that trade in for MRP.

The week pool will only contain weeks that do not enroll. Now, keep in mind that Marriott has the right to take weeks from the week pool to fill request from the point pool....Not good!

[rubin Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close rubin]

I just read that the point pool will be allocated ......point weeks, enrolled weeks that have not been traded for points, and weeks that trade in for MRP.

The week pool will only contain weeks that do not enroll. Now, keep in mind that Marriott has the right to take weeks from the week pool to fill request from the point pool....Not good!

I don't believe this is correct. Bear in mind that I am not talking here about "pools" within II, instead I am referring to "pools" available directly to reserve, either by weeks owners (enrolled who do not trade for points, or not enrolled), or points owners (those who purchase points directly, or enrolled owners who trade in their weeks for points).

As I understand it, based on my detailed reading of all the program documents, and discussions with marriott by phone, it is supposed to work as follows:

Weeks pool - this is the pool of inventory that can be reserved directly at the home resort, and can be accessed by legacy owners who do not enroll, and by enrolled owners who do not trade in their units for points in any given year. The inventory in this pool will be all weeks within the relevant season, other than weeks that are in the points pool (see below).

Points pool - this is the pool of inventory that can be reserved by points owners, both those who purchase points from marriott, and enrolled owners who trade in their weeks for points in any given year. The inventory in the points pool consists of the following:

1. marriott owned inventory
2. weeks turned in by any owner, whether or not enrolled, for marriott rewards points
3. weeks turned in by enrolled owners for points in the year at issue (enrolled weeks that are not turned in for points remain in the weeks pool)
4. weeks turned in by any owner, whether or not enrolled, to the marriott rental program
5. weeks that have first been reserved at the home resort and deposited to II, whether this is done by non- enrolled owners or enrolled owners who have not turned in their week for points in the year at issue. Bear in mind that in order for marriott to access the II inventory and pull out a deposited week to make it available for points reservations, it is supposed to substitute a "like" week to II out of its other points inventory.


The big question is, how will weeks in a season be allocated between the two pools? The above determines the NUMBER of weeks in each pool, but says nothing about exactly which weeks in the season are allocated to each pool, and on what basis that allocation is to occur. Folks have heard all sorts of conflicting things in that regard, and I do not beleive that marriott has given any sort of definitive answer to that question. My concern is that access to the best weeks may be harder to come by for weeks owners if there is other than a pro rata allocation of each and every week in the season between weeks and points.

Now, the question of "pools" within II is a different issue, and it is one that I have not yet figured out. (As someone who rarely exchanges, I havent been as concerned about this issue).

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

I just read that the point pool will be allocated ......point weeks, enrolled weeks that have not been traded for points, and weeks that trade in for MRP.

The week pool will only contain weeks that do not enroll. Now, keep in mind that Marriott has the right to take weeks from the week pool to fill request from the point pool....Not good!

I am not understanding the highlighted statement.

If I enroll but chose to NOT change into Dest Points and just reserve a 'usual' week, where does that come from? According to your statement, the points pool.
But if I opted NOT to do DP for a particular year, why would me ownership be in that pool?

And I really do not like the statement "Marriott has the right to take weeks from the week pool to fill point requests"

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I am not understanding the highlighted statement.

If I enroll but chose to NOT change into Dest Points and just reserve a 'usual' week, where does that come from? According to your statement, the points pool.
But if I opted NOT to do DP for a particular year, why would me ownership be in that pool?

And I really do not like the statement "Marriott has the right to take weeks from the week pool to fill point requests"

Pat,

If you enroll in the program, and choose to bank your week with II, opposed to turning your week into points, your week would still be given to the point pool in II......If you turn your week in for MRP, your week will be put into the point pool in II. And obviously, if you turn your week in for points, your week will be given to the point pool in II.

The only weeks that are going into the week pool are weeks from non-enrolled owners.

And yes.....Marriott has the right to take from the week pool in II, to fill request from the point pool. Again, I assume same holds true for direct Marriott to Marriott exchanges, but I'm not sure.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

OK, Pat nevermind......I just read another post that seems to clear up this confusion.

Definitive (I believe) answers to some important points program questions - Page 6 - Timeshare Users Group Online Community Forums

M61376

Sorry- I knew what I meant but I guess I wasn't clear- I meant "enrolled week owner deposits TO POINTS." Since I was talking about point owners I thought it was clear but that's because I was in my own head .

So- week owners will be trading in II with the weeks deposited by both legacy week owners and week owners enrolled in the club but reserving and depositing a week.

Point users will have access to Marriott inventory, units from week owners who converted to points for that year, and inventory from week owners who exchanged for Marriott Reward points for the year.

If Marriott cannot fulfill a request it may look to the weeks deposited by week owners in II, but from what Marirott and II have posted, they become a regular exchanger and if they take a week they must deposit a comparable week.

Hopefully, their definition of comparable is comparable to ours. Other than that weak link, trading should be similar- there will be less inventory, but commensurately less competition for it. The only other rub I foresee is that week owners may or may not get access to Marriott bulk deposits. I would assume these would go to point users- HOWEVER- Marriott wants us owners to visit to enhance our ownership with points.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

Thank you Angela and Rubin for the detailed explaination.

So it 'seems' reservation wise that we should be able to reserve using weeks/13 month rule as we always have.

The 'mystery' factor will be if we choose to deposit and exchange thru II....will there be Marriott inventory for 'us' - people trading week for week???
Since Marriott will be able to access our deposits even if we choose not to enroll in their program, I have my doubts.

One other clarification - will the Marriott 'provided' II account be a "Marriott Only" account or will other ownerships/weeks be allowed in that account? Starwood corporate and Wyndham corporate accounts can only hold those enrolled weeks.

Thanks

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Thanks Rubin, you are correct.........BTW, I also worry about the pools in II, and am not quite sure how they will be handled.

I don't believe this is correct. Bear in mind that I am not talking here about "pools" within II, instead I am referring to "pools" available directly to reserve, either by weeks owners (enrolled who do not trade for points, or not enrolled), or points owners (those who purchase points directly, or enrolled owners who trade in their weeks for points).

As I understand it, based on my detailed reading of all the program documents, and discussions with marriott by phone, it is supposed to work as follows:

Weeks pool - this is the pool of inventory that can be reserved directly at the home resort, and can be accessed by legacy owners who do not enroll, and by enrolled owners who do not trade in their units for points in any given year. The inventory in this pool will be all weeks within the relevant season, other than weeks that are in the points pool (see below).

Points pool - this is the pool of inventory that can be reserved by points owners, both those who purchase points from marriott, and enrolled owners who trade in their weeks for points in any given year. The inventory in the points pool consists of the following:

1. marriott owned inventory
2. weeks turned in by any owner, whether or not enrolled, for marriott rewards points
3. weeks turned in by enrolled owners for points in the year at issue (enrolled weeks that are not turned in for points remain in the weeks pool)
4. weeks turned in by any owner, whether or not enrolled, to the marriott rental program
5. weeks that have first been reserved at the home resort and deposited to II, whether this is done by non- enrolled owners or enrolled owners who have not turned in their week for points in the year at issue. Bear in mind that in order for marriott to access the II inventory and pull out a deposited week to make it available for points reservations, it is supposed to substitute a "like" week to II out of its other points inventory.


The big question is, how will weeks in a season be allocated between the two pools? The above determines the NUMBER of weeks in each pool, but says nothing about exactly which weeks in the season are allocated to each pool, and on what basis that allocation is to occur. Folks have heard all sorts of conflicting things in that regard, and I do not beleive that marriott has given any sort of definitive answer to that question. My concern is that access to the best weeks may be harder to come by for weeks owners if there is other than a pro rata allocation of each and every week in the season between weeks and points.

Now, the question of "pools" within II is a different issue, and it is one that I have not yet figured out. (As someone who rarely exchanges, I havent been as concerned about this issue).

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Thank you Angela and Rubin for the detailed explaination.

So it 'seems' reservation wise that we should be able to reserve using weeks/13 month rule as we always have.

Yes, but I worry that premier/premier plus owners can also book at any resort at 13 months out. Again, I'm not sure how this will impact week owners......I know there are suppose to be two pools, but who knows what 50% of the weeks will be reserved for week owners? Will they be 50% of each week in a particular season, or the worst weeks in a particular season?

The 'mystery' factor will be if we choose to deposit and exchange thru II....will there be Marriott inventory for 'us' - people trading week for week???
Since Marriott will be able to access our deposits even if we choose not to enroll in their program, I have my doubts.

Me too.

One other clarification - will the Marriott 'provided' II account be a "Marriott Only" account or will other ownerships/weeks be allowed in that account? Starwood corporate and Wyndham corporate accounts can only hold those enrolled weeks.

Thanks

Only Marriott weeks, as far as I know.

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

Can we develop methodologies of trade testing and tracking useage amongst TS4M members which can give a reasonably clear picture of what Marriott and II are *really* doing, regardless of the published policies and what we're *hearing* from them that they're doing? I see it as verifying actions matching words. Trust is built on such verifications.

I think it's great to get direct answers to questions from Marriott; it's also great to verify those answers in practice. How do we do that?

I ask here because it appears we have some of the brightest minds around for mining data and a substantial history of such data being recorded. Can we reverse-engineer this thing? My suggestion was the impetus for the 'targeted trade test' thread I started. I think, watching exchange patterns, getaways and reservation calendar usage/availability, along with mining MVCI data from public sources, can result in a clearer picture of what's actually going on. Every little bit is significant, even if it sounds stupid, like my prior rant on the inventory release calendar. It's one datapoint. Many more out there.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

One more question - if I choose to enroll and then sell my ownerships later on, will my "destination club membership" transfer with ownership - will the new owners be destination club/points owners?

As we know from Starwood, only the 5 mandatory resorts have Staroptions transfer with the ownership.

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

At this point, whether you are a developer owner or resale owner of weeks, no weeks enrolled in the DCP system will transfer upon future resale. IOW, the future buyer will have the same options as you did prior to enrolling the week in DCP, absent the MRP option (for developer owners). That doesn't mean that Marriott won't allow the buyer to 're-enroll' that ownership, but that it doesn't automatically transfer. That process, along with ROFR, allows Marriott to take each resale as a potential profit center, adding one more potential profit center to what they already enjoy, and one flush with green money (in fees). Smart business.

[billymach4 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close billymach4]

Can we develop methodologies of trade testing and tracking useage amongst TS4M members which can give a reasonably clear picture of what Marriott and II are *really* doing, regardless of the published policies and what we're *hearing* from them that they're doing? I see it as verifying actions matching words. Trust is built on such verifications.

I think it's great to get direct answers to questions from Marriott; it's also great to verify those answers in practice. How do we do that?

I ask here because it appears we have some of the brightest minds around for mining data and a substantial history of such data being recorded. Can we reverse-engineer this thing? My suggestion was the impetus for the 'targeted trade test' thread I started. I think, watching exchange patterns, getaways and reservation calendar usage/availability, along with mining MVCI data from public sources, can result in a clearer picture of what's actually going on. Every little bit is significant, even if it sounds stupid, like my prior rant on the inventory release calendar. It's one datapoint. Many more out there.

I am game. I only have my Aruba Surf Club Studio available until I redeem this unit. No plans to redeem until next year. Next year my MGV 2br LO, and another 2 BR Aruba Surf Club will become available.

FWIW I will test my little old Studio now.

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

I created a targeted Getaway thread to help track patterns in developer/distressed inventory. IMO, for those who are game, pick the resorts that you know the most about, are interested in the most and have traveled to the most. I suggest this because, generally, those are the targets which you have the best instincts about and can match up data with your instincts and experience and offer an informed perspective. Matching up different perspectives across the resort system, IMO, can help us see what actually *is* happening.

As an example, our sightings experts have substantial instinct about trends in sightings content and direction and can move to quantify those instincts and observe the trends as the points system comes online in a couple weeks. Everyone has their own canaries in the coal mine. Watch them carefully

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

At this point, whether you are a developer owner or resale owner of weeks, no weeks enrolled in the DCP system will transfer upon future resale. IOW, the future buyer will have the same options as you did prior to enrolling the week in DCP, absent the MRP option (for developer owners). That doesn't mean that Marriott won't allow the buyer to 're-enroll' that ownership, but that it doesn't automatically transfer. That process, along with ROFR, allows Marriott to take each resale as a potential profit center, adding one more potential profit center to what they already enjoy, and one flush with green money (in fees). Smart business.

Thanks......

Now to crunch my numbers....and see when I would get a break even point....

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

Also, don't discount arbitraging the points system as a potential value datapoint. There likely is value as well as gaming which can be achieved once we know the system's weaknesses.

I'll give an example from the MRP system. Often, when hotels load their inventory into MARSHA, they flesh out rate levels, availability and rule nuances for revenue reservations but neglect the MRP side of the equation. I just found such an example at a Marriott hotel I was looking for to book two weeks next May for the Indy 500. They had substantial non-refundable deposits, a high 'special event' rate, and a cancellation periods of 30 days to six months, depending on rate level. Probing a bit more, I snuck in the 'back door' using MRP's with no restrictions, no deposits and I can cancel without penalty right up to check in time, for a studio (as opposed to regular hotel room) no less. Not to mention the burn is .02/MRP which is outstanding for a special event like the 500.

So, just like savvy timesharers have always done, contemplate *all* aspects of the system, using the knowledge and experience hard-won over the years. The DCP system might just work out really well for some of us. At this juncture, I'm still going with my tried and true methodologies, remaining asset-based with positive cash-flow, but do have an open mind