Just found this ebay auction, I think this fits as a horror story!

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Ken,

i did not see emmy's post......however, my understanding of the marriott system is that they do not sell more weeks then they actually have available for use within each season.

each owner is sold a deeded week within each season. the number of weeks sold coincide with the number of units available for use.

however, within the marriott calendar of seasons, there are high demand weeks. those are the weeks everyone wants.....those are the weeks most affected by the 13 month rule.

for instance, marriott platinum season for fairway villas, nj, is from the end of april through sept........well, most people want to go there july & aug. so, people who can utilize the 13 month rule, can book july & aug before single week owners can get a chance at them.

one more thing.............i believe there is a rule that not more than 50% of any resort can be exchanged at the 13 month mark. so, there is always 50% still open for grabs.

[love2fly Member Find all posts View Profile Close love2fly]

that is correct, and owners of more than one week using the 13 month rule, cannot steel it out from under you.

as i previously stated......if you own in "platinum" season, etc., you are guaranteed a week in "platinum" season, etc.

... you are guaranteed a week in your season.

Ken,

i did not see emmy's post......however, my understanding of the marriott system is that they do not sell more weeks then they actually have available for use within each season.

Well ... this brings us to the problem of "season creep". The popular summer weeks are the 8 weeks of July and August, but some resorts have their peak season defined much longer, so this guy probably could gave received his "platinum" week in May or September but I bet he was not told this up front.

Marriott's Newport Villas have the same story. People pay premium dollars for them, and then they struggle to get a usable summer reservation.

The fundamental problem is that timeshares are presented and sold in a very deceptive way. Even by major brand name corporations (like Marriott), and Joe Public falls for it time and time again.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Well ... this brings us to the problem of "season creep". The popular summer weeks are the 8 weeks of July and August, but some resorts have their peak season defined much longer, so this guy probably could gave received his "platinum" week in May or September but I bet he was not told this up front.

Marriott's Newport Villas have the same story. People pay premium dollars for them, and then they struggle to get a usable summer reservation.

The fundamental problem is that timeshares are presented and sold in a very deceptive way. Even by major brand name corporations (like Marriott), and Joe Public falls for it time and time again.

correct.......this is the exact problem.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

Read the docs

correct.......this is the exact problem.

Yes - and no. In this scenerio the real problem is a sales decision to allow a group - in this case 2 week owners - to get an advantage that I'm 99.9% sure is NOT in the resort documents and effectively shuts out the legitimate owners from their own time. If I owned a week and was told this I would study my documents and if it wasn't clearly spelled out as a benefit / right Marriott would soon be changing that rule one way or another. I have no problem with ALL owners getting access at 13 months (it has to have a starting point somewhere) but it should not be limited to a select group unless it was sold that way. If it isn't in the recorded docs then they cannot do it and should be called on it. There is no wiggle room here. Owners have rights and the documents spell them out exactly. If it isn't in them then marriott sales / management cannot do it.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

Yes - and no. In this scenerio the real problem is a sales decision to allow a group - in this case 2 week owners - to get an advantage that I'm 99.9% sure is NOT in the resort documents and effectively shuts out the legitimate owners from their own time. If I owned a week and was told this I would study my documents and if it wasn't clearly spelled out as a benefit / right Marriott would soon be changing that rule one way or another. I have no problem with ALL owners getting access at 13 months (it has to have a starting point somewhere) but it should not be limited to a select group unless it was sold that way. If it isn't in the recorded docs then they cannot do it and should be called on it. There is no wiggle room here. Owners have rights and the documents spell them out exactly. If it isn't in them then marriott sales / management cannot do it.

when you purchase a floating week from marriott, the only thing they guarantee you is a week within the season you purchased.....hence, why some feel fixed weeks are a better way to go, for those who want a specific week each year.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

John - what of a situation where a person owns two weeks in floating platinum time, with a limitation that weeks be booked no sooner than 12 months in advance of check-in. If that person wants to use those two eeeks in succession, should they be able to book both weeks at the date they want to check-in (thereby securing the second week more than 12 months in advance of check-in)? Or should they only be allowed to book one week at a time?

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

John - what of a situation where a person owns two weeks in floating platinum time, with a limitation that weeks be booked no sooner than 12 months in advance of check-in. If that person wants to use those two eeeks in succession, should they be able to book both weeks at the date they want to check-in (thereby securing the second week more than 12 months in advance of check-in)? Or should they only be allowed to book one week at a time?

i'm not john.....however, in the marriott system, i don't believe you can do that. you would need to book the first week, and then call one week later to book the second week. the only way you could do the above scenario is if both weeks fell within the 12 month period.

[T. R. Oglodyte Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close T. R. Oglodyte]

i'm not john.....however, in the marriott system, i don't believe you can do that. you would need to book the first week, and then call one week later to book the second week. the only way you could do the above scenario is if both weeks fell within the 12 month period.

I wasn't posing the question specifically in regard to Marriott. I took John's post a a more global comment, and I pose my reply as a more general question as to whether or not multiple week owners should be allowed to book all of their weeks at once if the weeks are to be used in direct succession.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

SOmeone check the docs - they tell all

John - what of a situation where a person owns two weeks in floating platinum time, with a limitation that weeks be booked no sooner than 12 months in advance of check-in. If that person wants to use those two eeeks in succession, should they be able to book both weeks at the date they want to check-in (thereby securing the second week more than 12 months in advance of check-in)? Or should they only be allowed to book one week at a time?

My thought would be they would have to book two separate times (and the post above seems to back that up). But, again, the overriding factor is the resort documents. Management can enhance owners rights (ie allow all Platnum owners 13 months to reserve rather than 12) but they cannot unilaterally restrict the rights (ie give one group 13 months to reserve while limiting another to 12 months if all purchased within the same use time) UNLESS it was in the sales disclosure that such a system exists. If it does not then management (Marriott I assume) has opened itself to a lawsuit and damages that they will lose if challenged. If I were an owner I would ask once to get it corrected and then proceed to a lawsuit. This isn't some trumped up class action on an optional service such as RCI Points this is the heart of what someone paid tens of thousands of dollars to purchase and which is subject to very specific rules and regulations. Favoritism to one group or another is not allowed and I doubt any sales disclosure was filled and approved that included that plan. If so the owners are stuck - if not they are being mistreated and have a changed set of rules and possibly compensation due to them.

[love2fly Member Find all posts View Profile Close love2fly]

Help from Marriott owners please?

Yes - and no. In this scenerio the real problem is a sales decision to allow a group - in this case 2 week owners - to get an advantage that I'm 99.9% sure is NOT in the resort documents ...

This is an interesting assertion. I have been told by a Marriott NCV owner that this is the problem there as well. Some owners can reserve early and they grab the good weeks.

Perhaps Marriott is now writing this into the rules of the new resorts, but surely they cannot change the old ones.

Can any Marriott owner please clarify this?

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

This is an interesting assertion. I have been told by a Marriott NCV owner that this is the problem there as well. Some owners can reserve early and they grab the good weeks.

Perhaps Marriott is now writing this into the rules of the new resorts, but surely they cannot change the old ones.

Can any Marriott owner please clarify this?

i don't know off-hand what the answer is. hopefully, someone else does.

one thing i should probably point out, is that it is not just a matter of owning more than one week. in fact, it is not as easy to use this 13 month rule as it appears.

you need to own two units in seasons that dates coincide with each other.....then you must book consecutive or concurrent weeks with these units.

for instance, i own two marriott's, but cannot take advantage of the 13 month rule. both of my seasons are platinum, however, one of them is winter, and the other is summer.........

edited to add another example.................

if you owned two platinum weeks, one in aruba, and one in florida, your seasons would coincide with each other. perhaps not entirely, but any weeks that overlap would apply to the 13 month rule...........therefore, you could book 13 months in advance a week in aruba, and the same week, or following week in florida, or visa-versa.

of course, owning two weeks at the same resort within the same season would also apply.

people that do this, sometimes rent, or give to relatives one of the weeks. especially when they are dealing with different resorts.

[love2fly Member Find all posts View Profile Close love2fly]

Rescission is a way to solve this entire mess

correct.......this is the exact problem.

All of us have bought stuff, changed our mind, and then returned it to Target, Walmart, Sears or whatever.

And these stores take a huge hit when we return things, because often they cannot resell it as new.

We all know that "new" and "resale" timeshare is exactly the same thing, so there is no real reason why the developer cannot take back a week.

So one easy way to clean up this mess is to extend the 5 day rescission period.

I usually roll my eyes at people who think the goverment should solve their problems, but in this case I cannot think of another solution.

Would it be so bad if we got some consumer protection law that gave people 12 months to rescind, and perhaps force them to pay MF for that year, but still get their sales price back?

[Guest Close Quarterbore]

Would it be so bad if we got some consumer protection law that gave people 12 months to rescind, and perhaps force them to pay MF for that year, but still get their sales price back?

I bet there would be very few new timeshare resorts and a whole new problem would come up with people buying and using for the year and getting out of the contract....

I bet by far that most people that buy retail would have got their money back if they could once they realized what the resale market was like for the same product....

Or, only the prime weeks would ever sell.

[ArtsieAng Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ArtsieAng]

I bet there would be very few new timeshare resorts and a whole new problem would come up with people buying and using for the year and getting out of the contract....

I bet by far that most people that buy retail would have got their money back if they could once they realized what the resale market was like for the same product....

Or, only the prime weeks would ever sell.

yeah....that sounds about right.

as far as "Or, only the prime weeks would ever sell."....some people will only own fixed weeks because they believe no matter what type of system, or quality of the resort, only certain weeks are prime, and worth owning.

it's true, with some exceptions, such as major cities, and perhaps hawaii.......most areas have short seasons. everyone seems to want to be at the same place at the same time. the only way you can guarantee yourself a specific week, is to own it. even if you can't go to your resort the exact week you own, if it's a prime week, you can always trade or rent it.

[love2fly Member Find all posts View Profile Close love2fly]

Ken / Angela

Please correct me if I misunderstand you guys.

My suggestion to extend the rescission period if to force the developers to stop lying to buyers. Caveat emptor is a good start, but not enough.

Perhaps my example is extreme and it should be modified. What if the developer is obligated to buy back units for 12 months at 80% of what the owner paid?

We all know how timeshare sales operate. I am under the (perhaps naive) idea that it is possible for these guys to make an honest buck, and if we force them to, they will.

Of course, I bet the ADRA folks will scream against this. They have a nice racket and they like it this way.

I could be wrong, but your posts seem to indicate that timeshare will disappear if we force these guys to clean up their act.

I am optimistic and believe they will find innovative and honest ways to make money by selling people great vacations.