"Its not just points you loose "

[jaym Member Find all posts View Profile Close jaym]

I d/n like helping the salespeople learn how to combat our arguments, and I would hate to see Marriott impair the value of resale weeks by instituting more 'bought from developer only' benefits.

You have soom good 'point by point' rebuttals, I hope you will use them to make a good decision without empowering the developer. Then again, who knows who anybody really is around here, anyway.

That said, I can also add that I have accumulated enough Marriott points for a 'round the world' trip without buying from Marriott, or even referring a single buyer. It took time, but I did it with a Marriott visa. Now I'm kicking myself that I wasn't racking up Frequent Flyer miles instead... I have never been able to use the points to book anything other than a hotel room, the Vacation Club locations I wanted were always unavailable. And you could easily book yourself the kind of trip they are talking about for far less than the value they are quoting you.

Good luck with your research

This is a good point. Marriott may decide at some point that they want to reduce the value of resales to owners by incorporating exclusions to those buying outside their network. Anything is possible. I would hope this isn't attempted anytime soon.
Another good point: Marriott salesforce using insider info against a newbie that doesn't know the real story. Info is power.

We just recently bought resale (1st TS) and during my research I contacted Marriott sales, the home resort management, II, etc.
Salesforce gave me the same pitch about pts. Among other things, I told them that although the resale purchase provides no pts./rewards, as new owners of their product, we care more about evaluation of the core benefit, owner satisfaction. As well as consistency in quality of services, w/o paying sales/marketing costs. I asked salesperson, "isn't that what is really most important to the company anyhow?" (He didn't say "no, profit is" )
As many more experienced owners already indicated, points are only real value added and even that has limitations. You should save the $$.
By the way, with turnover being what it is everywhere, would you really expect to get the same "dedicated" person to handle your trip planning year after year...?

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

Maintenance fees go up; points get devalued; surrender levels remain static. Don't buy developer for the points. Buy for pre-construction in a location you love, a view you want, a resort where few resales exist. That's my opinion as a developer owner. <The rest of the sales drivel is just double-speak>

Annecdotally, my reward points/miles accounts are currently at all time lows. Burnt nearly .5MM MRP's and FF miles each this year. There's a reason for that
Pat

[KenK Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close KenK]

I know no one (Esp Pat {both}, Dave & John), will agree with me that this will ever happen, but also it is written:

"...Marriott has the right to stop and discontinue the "Rewards" Points program at any time..." (BTW- Thats what it is, a frequent traveler rewards points program).

And maybe it, to will come to pass.....

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

I know no one (Esp Pat {both}, Dave & John), will agree with me that this will ever happen, but also it is written:

"...Marriott has the right to stop and discontinue the "Rewards" Points program at any time..." (BTW- Thats what it is, a frequent traveler rewards points program).

And maybe it, to will come to pass.....

Why do you think my accounts are zero'ed and I'm burning as fast as I'm earning?

I personally think there are major changes coming and few which will benefit current Marriott developer owners.

Pat

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

Pat, thanks for posting the above. It reminded me to check and see if I can get my summer HI tix with my Marriott points. Probably not the best use of points, but at the rate I'm buying t/s I'll never use them for a hotel stay....

[Dave M Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dave M]

For the most part, I agree with Pat and Ken.

It's unlikely that Marriott would discontinue the program, unless some other major chain terminates their program first. It would be competitive suicide to do so.

However, another devaluation is overdue and that's Pat's and Ken's point.

On the other hand, I don't think it's always necessary to burn mega-points in anticipation of such a points devaluation. Certainly, there's no assurance that there will be a points devaluation or when one would occur. This year? Next year? Five years from now?

In part because of the American AAdvantage court 1995 Supreme Court case with facts that date back to the 1980s, frequent flyer and frequent stay programs now provide significant advance notice of forthcoming changes. As an example, United made devaluation changes to its Mileage Plus program that were effective for awards issued starting the first of this month. But those changes were announced about four months ago, giving travelers time to claim awards under the existing structure for travel over the next year or so.

Accordingly, if Marriott devalues its awards, it will give several months of advance notice, allowing us to claim awards under the current structure for use at least a year beyond the date of the announcement. Further, I would expect such a devaluation to be relatively minor, perhaps, like last time, including a reduction in points required for some rewards, so that Marriott can hype the positive changes being made.

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

Perhaps we'll see some reductions in points required for such popular items as golf school....

http://marriott.com/rewards/moreRewa...00&elite=false

A true bargain for those staying at Shadow Ridge during those low summer months

Where is the link for that Marriott mall where one can buy a plasma TV for .5MM MRP's?

Seriously, on topic, contrary to conventional wisdom, there may be some cherry picking opportunities of price, points and terms over the next couple years, as competition heats up, planned developments build up or out in the face of softening demand, and Marriott's sterling reputation gets a few black eyes. Stay watchful

Pat

[Lydkid Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lydkid]

Hey, apparently Shadow Ridge during the summer is not all that bad. I was told I could get an AC for depositing my week. Since I own a "season," they wanted a week in June.

But you guys have me a little worried about using my points though.

[Dave M Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dave M]

I agree, Pat. There aren't likely to be many (if any) meaningful reductions in points requirements to offset whatever increased point requirements there will be for various awards. Still....

Before the last "devaluation", I used 680,000 points (2 X 340,000 points) for a cruise for four (two cabins) on Holland America to Alaska. When the last changes were made, that cost for that award was lowered from 340,000 to the current 315,000 points. Although that's still a heap of points, if I had requested those awards under the current structure, I would now be sitting on 50,000 more points than I actually have.

I can dream for another useful - for me - change next time around.

Note (to stave off some of the criticism): I fully recognize that cruise awards are lousy uses of MR points, especially compared to the travel packages.

[taffy19 Gold Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close taffy19]

Dave, how nice to see you posting here.

[Dave M Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Dave M]

When you think about the big picture, it makes sense from an economic standpoint for Marriott to change its program occasionally to require more points to obtain various awards.

Here's a ridiculous but dramatic example: Assume inflation in hotel room prices of 4% per year. Also, assume that a Marriott hotel room for a night has a current average cost eligible for Marriott Rewards points of about $150. At that 4% rate of inflation, the average cost 100 years from today would be $7,575 per night. ($150, compounded annually at 4% for 100 years = $7,575.)

Someone staying two nights at that average rate might earn 18 points per dollar spent (5 points on Marriott Premier Visa and 13 points - depending on elite status - for the stay). 18 points x $7,575 x two nights = 272,700 points earned for a two-night stay.

Thus, assuming Marriott doesn't ever devalue its program from where it is today, the person paying for a mere two nights at a Marriott would earn enough points for an air-hotel travel package that would include 120,000 FF miles and a 7-night stay in any Marriott hotel worldwide!

That's not what is intended. Thus, as inflation marches on, occasional devaluations are necessary to keep the earning and award equation in balance.

We don't like a points devaluation when it happens, but it makes sense for Marriott to do it.

[GrayFal Silver Contributor and supermoderator Find all posts View Profile Close GrayFal]

When you think about the big picture, it makes sense from an economic standpoint for Marriott to change its program occasionally to require more points to obtain various awards.

Here's a ridiculous but dramatic example: Assume inflation in hotel room prices of 4% per year. Also, assume that a Marriott hotel room for a night has a current average cost eligible for Marriott Rewards points of about $150. At that 4% rate of inflation, the average cost 100 years from today would be $7,575 per night. ($150, compounded annually at 4% for 100 years = $7,575.)

Someone staying two nights at that average rate might earn 18 points per dollar spent (5 points on Marriott Premier Visa and 13 points - depending on elite status - for the stay). 18 points x $7,575 x two nights = 272,700 points earned for a two-night stay.

Thus, assuming Marriott doesn't ever devalue its program from where it is today, the person paying for a mere two nights at a Marriott would earn enough points for an air-hotel travel package that would include 120,000 FF miles and a 7-night stay in any Marriott hotel worldwide!

That's not what is intended. Thus, as inflation marches on, occasional devaluations are necessary to keep the earning and award equation in balance.

We don't like a points devaluation when it happens, but it makes sense for Marriott to do it.

In the same vein, as our TSs increase in value (Marriott selling the weeks for more then we paid for them 5 years ago) should Marriott increase the number of points they give us to turn in our weeks?

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

Hey, apparently Shadow Ridge during the summer is not all that bad. I was told I could get an AC for depositing my week. Since I own a "season," they wanted a week in June.

But you guys have me a little worried about using my points though.

Actually, I agree, regarding "not bad"; conversely, I think the blue summer weeks in the desert are quite good, in that they can be picked up dirt cheap resale and often do garner AC's. Of the three, MDS is the one to cherry pick, IMO, as it garners useage of the JW Marriott resort facilities, has older, larger units, and has no ROFR. When I started looking, but was dirt poor from our developer purchases, I saw some units going for under 3K. Haven't seen any recently, but they might still exist. They make a nice addition to a resort with hard-to-book summer weeks, like NCV. Buy 4 for 10K or so and book those NCV weeks 13 months and 5 weeks out

Pat

[camachinist Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close camachinist]

Note (to stave off some of the criticism): I fully recognize that cruise awards are lousy uses of MR points, especially compared to the travel packages.

Hey, if you got 'em, burn 'em Having been on Alaska cruises a couple times revenue, I know I'd be tempted if I had the points laying around. One potential explanation for the decrease may be that Marriott was paying less for cruises, as prices have fallen in the ~7 years or so I've been following cruising. Not uncommon to get inside 7 day Alaska cruises for under 700.00 pp with no special deals. Our first back in 2000 was nearly 1K pp for an inside (on HAL). We later sailed on Princess for about 800 pp. oceanview. Now I see last minute deals at 649 pp inside....

On-topic, I think Marriott would be smart to implement a formula to compensate their developer owners for relative deflation of MRP's, whether due to their own policy changes or just the constant rise in MF's. Since surrender MRP's are really the only ongoing "advantage" developer purchasers have, at this juncture, Marriott will have to be careful not to give away the store to the competition, both the other hotel chains as well as the resale market.

Pat

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

In the same vein, as our TSs increase in value (Marriott selling the weeks for more then we paid for them 5 years ago) should Marriott increase the number of points they give us to turn in our weeks?

Actually, for any point system, if they have to adjust the value, it should be tied to a rental rev. per unit type (not just rent rate) index of the TS. Because they have to get money from the TS you give to them and give to the exchange partner. The underline property value does not help in this case. If they do that, it will increase the risk, plus, if they tell the potential owner it is a floating system, it may not sell well.

Jya-Ning