WorldMark owner communication for independent board

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Over yonder, a very well known poster, PA, is soliciting support for an owner communication to all WorldMark owners with the express intent of soliciting proxy votes for the next election of the WorldMark Board of Directors.

The thread is getting a lot of attention because this will most likely end up in a showdown for achieving an independent board of trustees for a very large mini-system. Needless to say, Trendwest and Cendant are most likely not thrilled with his efforts because if PA achieves board independence, then it will become much more difficult for Trendwest to dilute the value of current ownerships with programs such as VIP and introduction of new resorts with inflated credit values leading to point inflation.

The WorldMark bylaws allows for the list of the names of owners be available to owners for communications on matters impacting the club. To date, Trendwest has been slow to make it available. Due to the persistence of PA and others, they have agreed to allow a 4 page mailing to owners through a third party mailing house.

As expected, there is some contentious debate over the strategy he has for casting proxy ballots. One of my concerns is that that thread may be censored over yonder because the discussion is pointed. A warning has already been given which is shutting down debate.

On topics such as these, open debate is required to get the truth out. I personally believe that this specific topic transcends any desire for keeping the peace via rules such as "be courteous," So, I am starting this thread so that an open debate can be aired out as to the agenda, intent and principles behind these efforts.

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

I read some of the thread.....and I am glad people are being pro-active. That is one heck of a mailing at estimated $92k....I hope it does not take that much to get it done. I am not a WM owner but wish you all luck.

Debate all you want here.

[PA- Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PA-]

Boca

I appreciate your support, and generally I agree with you. However, I don't see the shutdown of debate as a problem, because both sides have had their say adequately to allow centrists to form an opinion. Every post from here out does no good, and just turns into a scrum wallowing in the mud. The more the anti's post, the more good it does me. The more those that support me post from here on out, the more harm it does my effort, in my humble opinion.

As long as the thread is allowed to continue, there will be enough missiles launched at me to keep it near the top, but I don't think they're aim is good enough to derail support, so let them make their posts.

Agreed?

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Boca

I appreciate your support, and generally I agree with you. However, I don't see the shutdown of debate as a problem, because both sides have had their say adequately to allow centrists to form an opinion. Every post from here out does no good, and just turns into a scrum wallowing in the mud. The more the anti's post, the more good it does me. The more those that support me post from here on out, the more harm it does my effort, in my humble opinion.

As long as the thread is allowed to continue, there will be enough missiles launched at me to keep it near the top, but I don't think they're aim is good enough to derail support, so let them make their posts.

Agreed?

PA,

I agree with your Mahatma Ghandi approach. It certainly draws sympathy if you are willing to take the blows from your critics right on the chin without defense.

I am on a different point. I am concerned that the thread will get closed and people won't post or will be afraid to post their opinions, so I wanted to ensure that it continues.

I think the TUG moderators are doing what they are supposed to do. I don't have anything against them. They have a set of rules and they should abide by them. The moderator even went so far as to say that she was allowing more than she normally would. So, she was doing well in keeping the dialog going given her own constraints. All I did was try to help ensure that it would continue.

I would have never posted this thread if I wasn't concerned that the thread would be closed.

[PA- Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PA-]

I, too, am concerned that it will be closed. But if it is, I bet others will take its place when the mailers hit the mailboxes, eh?

There's no stopping this freight train now, just get outen the way, boy!!!

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

I, too, am concerned that it will be closed. But if it is, I bet others will take its place when the mailers hit the mailboxes, eh?

There's no stopping this freight train now, just get outen the way, boy!!!

I must admit. I thought you were foolhardy for taking on this project a year ago. I thought you had no chance. Now, I believe you will be successful in 2 or 3 years. I am very impressed.

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Just watch out for the Braveheart counterattack. I see that you are already guarding against it. That's good.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

I, too, am concerned that it will be closed. But if it is, I bet others will take its place when the mailers hit the mailboxes, eh?

There's no stopping this freight train now, just get outen the way, boy!!!

Wish you luck. I don't know what is the percentage the WM owner look at these boards. Sometimes during heat debat, it may loss clear sense. So stay cool.

I don't think a board will be against the developer or what. I think some independents will help the travel club like this reduce the risk thus reduce the risk of owner.

I also think with an independent as a contanst monitors, it helps the developer to try effort to find the best solutions instead hindsigh and select a easier but more likely path that will lead to failure.

It is for everyone's benefits if the board and developer work hand in hand. Hopefully you will win.

Jya-Ning

[PA- Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PA-]

Wish you luck. I don't know what is the percentage the WM owner look at these boards. Sometimes during heat debat, it may loss clear sense. So stay cool.

I don't think a board will be against the developer or what. I think some independents will help the travel club like this reduce the risk thus reduce the risk of owner.

I also think with an independent as a contanst monitors, it helps the developer to try effort to find the best solutions instead hindsigh and select a easier but more likely path that will lead to failure.

It is for everyone's benefits if the board and developer work hand in hand. Hopefully you will win.

Jya-Ning

Thanks, Jya-Ning

What's your native language? It's difficult to communicate with people in a different language, but to do so on the internet with the written word is very impressive. While you're grammar isn't perfect, it's pretty good. Did you study in an English speaking country?

[PA- Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close PA-]

BB,

So far it's just us 2 Worldmark owners. Are there enough Worldmark owners on this board for a discussion?

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

What's your native language? Did you study in an English speaking country?

Chinese. I was born and raised in Taiwan. But have been in US for over 20 years. I am very bad in Language. Good thing I don’t need to write poetry in internet.

Jya-Ning

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

BB,

So far it's just us 2 Worldmark owners. Are there enough Worldmark owners on this board for a discussion?

We rarely discuss WorldMark on this board. Not sure why. I think its because all the WorldMark owners go to wmowners to get their info on WorldMark.

This site is great for sightings, independent exchange companies, pontificating on the future of timesharing, the photo server, HOA private groups and politics. And, Ken is more than willing to create new features for us here. Moderation rules are more free speech oriented. Frank does a great job at recruiting volunteers.

Lots of people who post frequently are on vacation this week.

The site has grown significantly over the past year and the content is starting to get pretty rich.

The topic of independent boards has been debated on this message board. So, I expect non-owners to chime in as well.

[ThaiChef Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ThaiChef]

As a WorldMark owner I am pleased to state my support for PA and for the incredible amount of hard work that he is doing for our club. Whether or not you agree with his vision, it seems to me that every single WorldMark owner should applaud his willingness to be an informed and active owner.

Soon after I purchased my first WorldMark membership, it became clear to me that there was a problem with a conflict of interest in the management of our club. It just seemed wrong to have our club be run by a board of directors which is comprised of employees (and former employees) of the company that acts both as the developer and the manager of the club.

The following illustration shows part of my concern with the developer who also acts as the manager of our club:

Last week I visited the WorldMark at Las Vegas. I checked in as a WorldMark owner and was required to show up at the developer's sales desk to pick up a parking pass to park in my resort.

While at the sales desk I was invited to attend an owner's update. I was told that the purpose of the update was to inform me of changes to our club. I attended the update to find that it was a very thinly veiled sales attempt. While attending the owner's update, the saleperson ran a printout containing some of my private owner's account information.

I accept that (for now) the board of directors is made up of employees or former employees of the developer and that they oversee their own company's efforts as manager and developer of the club.

What I don't accept is that a salesperson working for developer has direct access to my membership information when I have never even purchased from the developer. I don't accept that there is no separation within Trendwest and that all information available to the club's manager is also available to the developer. That's clearly an example of improper access of information that Trendwest is given due to its role as both manager and developer.

Anyway, I'm sure glad that PA is willing to put himself on the line here and I'm happy to support him in this proxy drive.

Best of Luck PA!

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

Welcome Thaichef,

I recognize you as a frequent WorldMark poster. Thanks for coming here to post.

I think that PA is in the middle of a battle that truly does have implications for the entire industry. That's because most of these mini-point systems have created their plans in Florida based on the Florida Multi-site timesharing plan statutes. I need to double check the statutes, but I believe they call for the separation of the developer and the management trust representing owners. But, it doesn't say that the developer cannot have majority control of the board. So most do. In fact, many of them like Club Sunterra and Bluegreen (of which I am a big owner and supporter) have bylaws that guarantee them board control.

This is not unusual in business. Many corporations have preferred stock which have preferential voting rights. This concentrates control into a few people. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's bad.

In the case of WorldMark, when Trendwest purchased it, they probably took for granted that they would have complete control of the WorldMark board. And, I am sure that at least one attorney warned senior management there about a few statements in the bylaws that were troublesome. They probably never anticipated how active the owners would become in their club.

My two favorite clubs in the industry are WorldMark and Bluegreen. WorldMark for the west coast and Bluegreen for the east coast. I hope that PA wins his battle for control of the board because then I will sleep easier at night knowing that my ownership there is in good hands.

As far as Bluegreen goes, I love that club and I will continue to support management there as long as they keep adding value to owners and doing good things for us. I don't like the trust being guaranteed to the developer, but it doesn't matter as long as we know it upfront and they don't devalue our ownerships.

It will be extraordinarily interesting to watch.

[Carolinian Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Carolinian]

PA and I sometimes cross swords on some timeshare issues, but I wholeheartedly support his efforts on this issue. Timeshare resorts, and by extension resort groups, should be governed by their members, not by developers or management. I avoid owning myself at any timeshare whose HOA board is either developer-controlled or management-controlled.

The cost of the mailing is a lot higher using a mail house than using volunteers. It was quite unreasonable of Worldmark to require that.

I remember when a concerned owners group launched a partially successful bid for a couple of seats on the management-controlled board at Dunes South. To get the membership lists for their mailing they had to have an attorney (who was a member of the group and therefore, fortunately did it pro bono) lean on the management company and cite the state corporate statutes that required them to turn over the list. They used volunteers to put the mailing out, and had enough people volunteer to contribute after the mailing that it covered all of the costs of the mailing.