Interested in buying a resale

[Pacerman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pacerman]

Not currently a TS owner. Never have been a TS owner. Did a Discovery package once.

Upside to resale... cheap
Downside...? I know a few things lik VIP status doesn't transfer... what else?

Any help is great. Also how many points should i start with?

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

For that

I'd want to sit down with you for 90 minutes . . .

Before I would ever suggest any property to anyone, I really do have to know you, your family, and your vacation habits. Some thing for "point level" if you go that way.

Anyone who makes a sugesstion without that time investment is not showing proper care.

[Glitter Brunello Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Glitter Brunello]

I'd want to sit down with you for 90 minutes . . .

Before I would ever suggest any property to anyone, I really do have to know you, your family, and your vacation habits. Some thing for "point level" if you go that way.

Anyone who makes a sugesstion without that time investment is not showing proper care.

This site is devoted to helping people make informed decisions, and to help owners make the best use of their timeshares. We don't require a 90 minute presentation, and don't sell anything. Any potential buyer should spend more than 90 minutes doing research before making a purchase.

To Pacerman,

Are you decided on Wyndham, or open to other suggestions? What did you like about Wyndham? Where do you live, where would you like to vacation? How many times a year? Fly or drive? Full weeks or partial? What size unit would you need?

[longtimer Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close longtimer]

Hopefully you have also looked at several different TS systems. Some are larger than others and have resports across a broader part of the US and world. Also try to think ahead as to how you will vacation in the future. With rising oil prices and the hassles of check in/security at airports, many are driving instead of flying. If you choose to drive, you want to make sure you have resorts that are a reasonable driving distance.
Also keep in mind that you will be paying an annual MF, even if you choose not to use your TS in a particular year. Can you afford those costs every year (and remember, they keep going up). There are so many things to consider before you jump on a purchase. Read the discussions on this forum and ask questions. We will be very candid with you.

[Pacerman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pacerman]

I like Wyndham because of the points system. I like the flexability of only using 3 or 4 days at a time instead of a whole week. I like not being set to one resort as with some typical TS. Wyndham has quite a few resorts as well.

A little bio.
My wife and I are in our mid 30s with 2 daughters 12 and 6. We currently live in Florida near Cocoa Beach. We like to vacation in Orlando or Destin and more. Typically we vacation during the off seasons (high and value, not prime)to avoid people and lines at the amusement parks and prices. We love the beach. We like taking extended weekend trips or 3 and 4 day trips during the week. Maybe once in a while take a 5 or more day. My wife is thrifty and can stretch things out and likes to plan in advance.

Things we know about Wyndham
Unless you buy retail from Wyndham you will not be VIP so I will discuss non VIP stuff that we know. Also know VIP of these.

You get 1 HK credit per 1K, most stays are around 77HK additional are $2.25 ea

Reservations can be made 10 months in advance (no matter the resort)

Can convert points into mx credit before year use starts

Can put points in a pool for $39 and they are good for 3 yrs

you can buy more points online from Wyndham for $8/1k

Free transfer to RCI for current or future points, min 27k

Guest conformation is one free a year and then $99 online

Our thoughts:
Home resort does not matter with Wyndham unless you are VIP. Look for a resort that you can get the most points with the lowest mx/tax

Also, unit size and location does not matter as you can use anyone in the Wyndham system or RCI since I am using points.

We think we need around 200k-250k points a year, would like 300k

We would want to start with mx and tax no more than 1200-1500 a year.


Please fill in holes or gaps or other things we should consider. We have done a discovery package with Wyndham for 314k points. We liked what we saw except for the prices. We made 3 trips on this, 3, 4 and 5 day during different seasons and what not and were able to maximize our points. Wife was mad that we left 8k on the table.

[carlroyer Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close carlroyer]

You know more then most TS salesmen will tell you!

A few things to think about. Choose a resort based on two things. If you want to travel to a resort that has usually booked during peak seasons, you may want to target that as the "home" resort you buy due to ARP. Usually places like Bonnet Creek in Orlando are pretty easy to get into year round.

Also, one other thing to consider is maintanence cost per thousand points. Be very careful, as some resorts can be $6+, and others under $5! There are spreadsheets on other forums that have a spreadsheet (message me if you want a copy). As an example, I own La Belle Maison in NOLA for $4.19/K, Nashville at $4.99/K, and Smokey Mtn at $3.86/K.

Check the point charts for the resorts you assume you will be visiting the most. NEVER buy bi-annual, as you will get charged program fees annually on the total points you have, not the annual amount... Remember, you can combine contracts down the road, so if you are not sure how many points you need, maybe target around a weeks worth of points (160K or so), and then purchase a second contract if you really like it and you can pull from both contracts.

Another option is to go to E-bay and just buy a week's vacation, as the listed prices are pretty reasonable. Larry Sims lists a bunch, and you can actually e-mail him and ask him to go in and reserve XX week for you at ABC resort... Because he has VIPs book them, if they are within the 60 day, etc... sometimes it's cheaper then owning yourself (and you don't have points to bother with, nor maintenance fees, etc..

AND, NEVER accept the offer to have a "Customer Service" rep come to your room to speak with you, ever!!! They are there for one purpose, to try and sell you more points!!! Don't fall for it. I know... I did! I own 1 purchased from Wyndham, and 2 secondary. But I just fell for the horse and pony show recently, and got stars in my eyes to get VIP. I cancelled it as soon as I got home, and am so relieved!

[Pacerman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pacerman]

I thought ARP was only for VIP status. Home resort for non VIP is 10 months as well (just like all resorts) unless I was misinformed. Should we choose our home resort as the one we plan to frequent the most or the one that gives us the most points/mx cost and we may never go there. Is it just a sense of pride in ownership.

I have been looking at mx cost per 1k

[carlroyer Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close carlroyer]

I'm a Club Wyndham Plus member, which is just the standard program, and I have ARP at my home resort. The directory shows 13 months (I had thought it was 11...). I've never used it, as we don't seem to know where we are going 13 months ahead of time!!! Maybe a Hawaii resort would be worth having ARP. Now, here's a point to remember. You can only use the regular points you hold for that resort for ARP. In my case, I have 2 contracts (84K and 77K) that I can't use at the home resorts unless I want a 1BR in non-prime season! As it is, I picked up these 2 just for extra points any ways.

Keep asking questions on the forum before you purchase. You are soaking up lots of information, and ask people who they bought secondary market from, etc... The other thing is if you do a direct purchase from someone, how difficult it is to do the transfer yourself.

[carlroyer Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close carlroyer]

Advance Reservation Priority (ARP) is a special reservation feature with CLUB WYNDHAM® Plus that gives you the opportunity to request a reservation at your home resort as far as 13 months in advance of your check-in date.

[longtimer Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close longtimer]

Pacerman - It sounds like you've done your homework. I wish you all the best in your selection. Hopefully you will soon join the crowd of happy TS owners!

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Home resort is based on your deed. Even if you are resale owner, you can make ARP at 13 month. But it is based on the points you own at that resorts. At 11 month, VIP can use all their points to get the unit. If you are president VIP, you can get certain president unit pool at 14 month and 13 month and it will keep certain inventories until 90 days. And Wyndham's new Club allows you to ARP on several resorts they pooled together based on the number of inventories they put on it. But they have the same idea before, and it failed because the MF is higher than if they seperate them, will see if they can success this time. If they success, maybe they will eventually merger Wyndham to WorldMark or verse vise.

Unless you have certain time slot and certain place in mind that you plan to have your family tradition vacation every year, ARP usually not very important.

But for point program that set up by developers, here are at least several more

Disney
Marriott (which is newest member of this point program, so you may not see enough inventories until maybe 10 yeras later)
HGVC (Hilton?)
Bluegreen
Diamond
WorldMark
VI
Hoiliday Inn Group
Shells
Royal Holidays

And several mores.

Wyndham maybe has the biggest US owner groups and decent enough resorts that provide enough inventories.

By the way, resale value for Wyndham is close to $1, so although you may pay 8k for the discover package (I thought it is like $3K real cash? Or they just claim that it will equals to 8K?). You actually saves like $40000 if you are looking at 300k

Jya-Ning

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

The ARP question

ARP was developed by Fairfield as a response to what happened at Sunterra. Turns out the same guy got a chance to put together a new system.

At Sunterra, folks were getting crowded out of their "home" resort. This kind of thing used to also happen at Fairfield Glade. Not really a concern now unless your week is event centered.

Jazz week here in Newport for example.

I have about 200 owners, out of the 1000+ sales I've done, that I'm in touch with on a regular basis. I think in 11 years, ARP has been an issue all of 4 times.

One note:

To suggest you can make a proper rec. based on a few questions in a forum as opposed to talking to someone on the phone is beyond silly. Your home resort should be something you really like in case all else fails.

Again, some on this forum are incredibly jaded and negative regarding a great product.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

...Again, some on this forum are incredibly jaded and negative regarding a great product.

Great product for who ? The developer, the scumbag sales staff ? It's just another overpriced con job as has been shown in the real market pricing. It's an industry rife with the scum of the earth.

[carlroyer Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close carlroyer]

I'm confused Bobby. I understand that having someone to speak with is very important. But are you selling for Wyndham at the market price of $220 per thousand less the discounts? Or do you market resale TS properties?

If you market for Wyndham, I am having a very hard time understanding your logic that an opportunity to sit with a "professional" for the 90-240 minutes it takes to do the presentation and then finalize the sale is worth the tens of thousands of dollars for the TS. My big complaint is that Wyndham sells the property (they try to imply it's a real estate investment, but then nod and wink and say "but I can't say that....".). We invest in these properties that even before the ink dries is now vurtually worthless to anyone other then Wyndham. It amazes me that Wyndham is not buying up all the properties on E-bay for resale!!! I know if I were a car dealer, and I could buy cars on e-bay for a buck and resell them, I'd be doing it...

[carlroyer Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close carlroyer]

Oh, and BTW, we are not jaded towards the product. We like the product. We just do not like the price nor the way Wyndham administers the program.

I was told at the Fairpoint meeting back in 2004, that I was buying a deeded piece of property. That it had value, and that at any time down the road I could sell it. They never said that it would be greatly devalued because they would limit the new owner to having less value for the product (no VIP, etc...) then the original owner. I think this is criminal actually. I do not respect the sales and marketing arm of Wyndham. They sell a defective product that is greatly overpriced. If they provided a fair price with an acceptable return on investment, more people would buy them!

Let's use the automobile as an example. I purchase a $30K auto today from my dealer, and he tells me that it's a good investment. I understand there is depreciation on the auto, and that at some point the auto will have to be disposed of. But I expect that out of the blocks, and know the $30k I spend today, I will get a return on investment in two years of around $22K towards selling it private sale. The new buyer is happy, and understands that there are some issues, but just because he is the "secondary" owner, does not mean the radio does not work now!!! With a $30K timeshare investment, in 2 years, I have an investment worth roughly $1 by today's standards on the secondary market. I have paid $30000 plus interest for an opportunity to have 1 - 2 weeks vacation a year that I still spend an additional $1500 in MF on. Now you tell me this please Bobby O... Can you justify my paying the $30K because you gave me 90 minutes of your time! And how can you sleep at night.

If Wyndham would lower the cost per thousand retail to the $100 per K points, and offer a buy back option based on the number of years in the program AND ALL programs and perks were fully transferrable, you would have something that I think their sales and marketing would be proud to sell. But the truth is, they don't want to pay a portion of the cost of the points back... They are like the US Government... They can print Club Access points like money! They depend on non-capacity of units to cover their exposure. They resell units that are not used, and points you don't use within your year are lost! Paid for but lost, into thin air.

Oh, the timeshare biz is almost as bad as any pyramid or ponzi scheme out there... We take part, because we do see the value, and don't mind paying the MF. But we don't have to pay the super inflated RETAIL prices either.