Interested in buying a resale

[Pacerman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pacerman]

Are maintenance fees ALONE a good way too choose a home resort even if we will never stay there.

Being a points based system and not a traditional TS is why I am saying that the home resort property really has no meaning except pride in ownership. Really, there is no pride in ownership because you will never stay in the room that you are a fractional owner nor will your name be posted on the door saying proudly maintained by Mr. and Mrs. Smith.

Saying you "Own" a piece of worthless deeded propery is exactly that.

Technically you are staying at a nicer suite than normal and the cost per night is divided up by your mx fees and taxes.

I have sat down for a 90 min... er 3.5 hour meeting and a 2 hour meeting and all i got were 2 pissed off salesmen cause they thought they had me sold and I said no.

I am interested in the product of owning a TS but not at retail prices and I have done and continue to do my homework on resale. I bought into a discovery package that cost $2600 for 314k points. At that price I could have bought 300k points out right on the resale market almost.

On all three vacations I took with my discovery package all I got was pressure to buy from Wyhndam and made to feel inferior for not by the "customer service person"... er Salesman. On all three vacations I was told by owners to buy resale off the internet for really cheap.

I will never pay retail for a TS

Said my peace.

Anything so far that I should know about resale before I pull the trigger?

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

Working backwards

Pacer, the biggest thing you really need to know is whether or not you have clean title. That's the only thing that can really go wrong.

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

Comparing likes to likes

Carl, we have to set out a few groundrules:

1. A timeshare is not an investment. Never has been, never will be. Never should be sold that way. It is a vacation strategy.

2. As a vacation strategy, it is up against the 8.7% inflation rate that hotels charge for rooms not as nice. Based on a 20 year model, you are always better with the timeshare and you do have something to pass on. In most scenarios, the numbers turn over in year 11. On the secondary market, they can turnover in year 3.

3. The only relationship to real estate is the deed. That means it is forever. However, beyoind that one fact, the relationship ends.

Because I never violate my own rules and always make sure to help my customers get their trades, pulling strings if necessary - even using my own personal points - to make it happen, I sleep very well at night.

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

One other thing

Wyndham and some of the others are getting some of those properties back. What do you think those liquidation companies are designed to do??

You pay $2795, $781 actually goes to liquidation, and eventually they try to get the $781 back by recycling the points inventory.

I have my own travel club - for folks who hate maintenance fees and/or owning property. You can read about the prices in the classified ad I posted. Weeks I buy I break down into points for spec vacations, "goodie" inventory to solve problems, or vacation club hot week inventory.

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

Scum?? Everybody??

Like any sales environment, there are those too challenged by ethics to belong.

However, I have a collection of postcards which says it's not all bad.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

2. As a vacation strategy, it is up against the 8.7% inflation rate that hotels charge for rooms not as nice. Based on a 20 year model, you are always better with the timeshare and you do have something to pass on. In most scenarios, the numbers turn over in year 11. On the secondary market, they can turnover in year 3.

Doubtful what this 8.7% comes from. If it includes new hotel's rate, and is using the hotel rack rate, than maybe. If it is based on the existing hotel, and based on Big Hotel chain (Wyndham included)'s Rev per night, it is hardly the case. The Rev per night especially for the existing hotel is same as inflation.

While the MF for the existing resorts is going up higher than inflation rate if you including all these SA to it.

You will need to make sure the MF is in area that can be substain or fit your plan.

Even buying resale, it may not turn out you can beat just rent.

Jya-Ning

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

I have my own travel club - for folks who hate maintenance fees and/or owning property. You can read about the prices in the classified ad I posted. Weeks I buy I break down into points for spec vacations, "goodie" inventory to solve problems, or vacation club hot week inventory.

Does Wyndham also know this side business? Sounds very conflict.

Jya-Ning

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

How about the Wall Street Journal

Just so we're clear: I'm not a Wyndham employee.

The Wall Street Journal throughout the early 2000's showed double digit inflation for hotel prices. I can show examples of double digits in other regions very easily.

The average maintenance fee goes up 3.5% per year. Sometimes, in a coastal area, this number can be thrown off due to the salt factor.

If renting beat owning, you would do more of it.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

...
The Wall Street Journal throughout the early 2000's showed double digit inflation for hotel prices. I can show examples of double digits in other regions very easily.

The average maintenance fee goes up 3.5% per year. Sometimes, in a coastal area, this number can be thrown off due to the salt factor.

If renting beat owning, you would do more of it.

Very general comment that means nothing without specifics like region, what rates and where the data came from. Sounds like timesharesalesspeak to me. I remember all the presentation BS about inflation, and watched as the resale prices plummeted year after year.

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

If renting beat owning, you would do more of it.

Yep.

8.4% is the rate of growth including new hotel, upgarde hotel. The upgrade is intended to have enough return rate in few years.

3.4% MF increase ignore the SA. Just like USA's inflation rate is at 3%, which does not include a lot of stuff that really matter. Make it worse is if you upgrade the resort, the return rate is much lower.

Not to mention the increase of exchange cost. And the increase hotel avg is pretty evenly based on the region cost, while the increase of resort MF is not, and if even one of your own is mismanged resort, you have very less ability to change it.

If you look at Wyndham's newer resort, it has quicker increase of points required.

You need to compound that with the MF increase.

Add to the problem is even with a praise flexible system like Wyndham, it still take a lot of work to make 1 night reservation. And if you go through RCI route, there is no control over inventories.

You can control how much you spend on hotel renting. You can not control the MF. And you can control the region you want to visit and the hotel, you can not say that if you use RCI. thus you have to be restricted by what Wyndham provide.

The TS stay and ownership still have its advantage, but you need to pay more detail attention to it to get it.

You need more than double the actual difference not just an avg comparison at least in 10 year span in order to consider ownership.

Jya-Ning

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

Two people with similiar styles

Jya, you sure your name isn't Ace??

Again, strong opinions are welcome. Lies are not.

"Newer" would also mean "more desirable", right?? I thought so too. Therefore it should take more points.

1 night reservations aren't encouraged, in some cases allowed, because they create a logistical nightmare. In most major resort towns during high season, you can't make 1 night reservation as well until the day before or day of.

Are you really going to try and compare a 600 square foot hotel to a two bedroom? Really? Then rollouwt some seriousness about controlling "how much you rent"? By the way, where are these hotels where you name your price? Nowhere that I would be interested in.

There are 6355 RCI resorts in 212 countries. Please name a place you can't go to. By the way, since you control who is on the Board, you control the maintenance fee.

As for TonyG, that was nationwide from the hospitality industry. You too sound awfully bitter. This is a vacation strategy, not an investment.

[Pacerman Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Pacerman]

I really appreciate all the help I have received

I do not apprecieate my post being hijacked by anyone to bicker back and forth

If it is not an investment then why does Wyndham sell it that way?

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

If they told the whole truth, no one would buy.

[BobbyO1967 Member Find all posts View Profile Close BobbyO1967]

Policy

By Wyndham policy, if you "pitch investment", you get fired. I've seen it happen. Most managers are pretty tight on that one. I've never allowed it anywhere I've been.

The great exception to the rule is of course Williamsburg where it seems no matter what company you work for, anything goes.

Tony, instead of moaning, why don't you tell us why you're so bitter.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

Jya, you sure your name isn't Ace??

Again, strong opinions are welcome. Lies are not.

Hi BobbyO, first I appreciate your perspective very much. It's enlightening for me to hear the opposing side of any discussion. Sometimes it's even entertaining... please stick around.

As I've mentioned to you before, I'm going to refrain from calling names or calling people liars, etc... especially the ones that happen to disagree with me. And it really does nothing to enhance your viewpoints.