Was "Shelby Resorts.com - Wyndham ? " NOW -Renting RCI Exchanges/Renting Wyndham Pts

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

First of all, I respect all of you, and I also understand that all of you know that there is a non-commercial policy at Wyndham/Wyndham, and, having gone through the tightening of that policy at RCI/Wyndham, I hope, for your sake, that Wyndham/Wyndham does not do that.

But, they can, and they the right to, and you would have no recourse.

I've tried to explain that the number of words in the written policy has nothing to do with anything. There were a lot of words in the 2006 RCI/Wyndham policy, but that didn't make it any clearer. It still required an RCI/Wyndham employee to clarify those words, something that has not been done since that I know of. If it had been, or if Wyndham/Wyndham had clarified their policy, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Of course, as these things go, now we need to actually see what RCI/Wyndham's current written policy is, and see how it compares to 2006.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Current RCI/Wyndham commercial use policy:

C. The Program is for the personal use of
Members and, if permitted, their guests, and neither
Members nor guest may use the Program for
commercial purposes, or monetary or other
consideration, including without limitation, auction,
barter, rental, raffle or sale of a Confirmed Exchange,
Deposited Vacation Time, Inventory or Guest
Certificate, for example, and RCI reserves the right
to limit the number of Transactions by a Member.
Any commercial use shall be grounds for immediate
termination of Member’s membership and cancellation of
any Exchange Request, Confirmed Exchange or other
benefits of the Program without prior suspension of or
notice to the Member and any other rights or remedies
RCI may have at law.

Still a lot words, much more than just saying "Commerical use is not allowed". But, it still does not define "commercial". "Commerical" is also not listed in the definition. That was the problem in 2006, too, and why they clarified it via Madge.

But, I agree, RCI/Wyndham and Wyndham/Wyndham can do whatever they want, whenever they want, and do, by enforcing or not enforcing, at their whim, and Members have (pretty much) relinquished their right to do anything about it.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

it still does not define "commercial".

com·mer·cial
/kəˈmərSHəl/
adjective
adjective: commercial;

1. concerned with or engaged in commerce.
2. making or intended to make a profit.

Not that it would likely make any difference if one had to argue the point with either Wyndham company, but the person following Madge's clarification, not conducting a commercial enterprise, and not making a profit, would likely be on less-shaky ground.

It was because some RCI members were boldly flaunting their commercial use that prompted RCI to crack down. The rub is how to run a commercial enterprise discretely.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Like peeling back the layers of an onion, the more you think about this, the more you realize there is more to think about.

For instance, the contention that more words in the non-commercial clause means it's more restrictive is exactly the opposite of what is true. Because RCI/Wyndham is an exchange company, it takes more words to explain that the non-commercial use applies only to vacation time that RCI/Wyndham has the rights to. We all know that you can do whatever you want with vacation time that own, and that you don't give to RCI.

OTOH, Wyndham/Wyndham's non-commercial policy is very, very broad, so it takes very few words, but is much more restrictive in it's construction:

"The Program is for a Member's own personal use and enjoyment and not for any commercial purposes."

The way that is constructed, it means "not at all", that a Member cannot use Wyndham/Wyndham for commercial purposes in any manner, even what they own in Wyndham/Wyndham. It would be the same as buying a condo where the COA or covenants does not allow rentals.

More words=more specific=less restrictive.

Less words=more restrictive.

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

maybe

maybe not

This horse still being ridden pretty hard.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

The pertinent question is not whether Wyndham/Wyndham prohibits commercial use, but what it would take to prompt them to enforce their policy prohibiting commercial use.

The ramifications should they choose to enforce it would be extensive. First, obviously, it would affect those who have invested heavily in the program because they thought they could profit from it.

But, how about the "exit option" issue. Because Wyndham mega-renters are willing to acquire more Wyndham, those wishing to exit have an option that most wishing to exit an RCI resort do not.

If history helps, a reason to enforce the policy might be when those renting Wyndham stuff affects Wyndham renting Wyndham stuff. RCI enforced it in conjunction with ramping up their own rental to the public.

Anyone wanna ask RCI if their policy today is still as Madge explained?

feedback@RCI.com

[ronparise Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ronparise]

The pertinent question is not whether Wyndham/Wyndham prohibits commercial use, but what it would take to prompt them to enforce their policy prohibiting commercial use.

The ramifications should they choose to enforce it would be extensive. First, obviously, it would affect those who have invested heavily in the program because they thought they could profit from it.

But, how about the "exit option" issue. Because Wyndham mega-renters are willing to acquire more Wyndham, those wishing to exit have an option that most wishing to exit an RCI resort do not.

If history helps, a reason to enforce the policy might be when those renting Wyndham stuff affects Wyndham renting Wyndham stuff. RCI enforced it in conjunction with ramping up their own rental to the public.

Anyone wanna ask RCI if their policy today is still as Madge explained?

feedback@RCI.com

It isnt a question of if or under what circumstances they might enforce their policy , its a question of when. And its the same question with RCI.. The policy is in place, but they dont enforce it.. Folks rent their RCI exchanges all the time.


The exit policy at Wyndham is in place ...In fact I believe that Wyndhams exit policy is key to their goal of closing the megarenters down They have an exit program called Ovation and because of that Im not able to get contracts for free as I had in the past. To get new points now, I have to pay for them and if I pay too much Im not profitable. So bottom line Im not growing as fast as Id like to

I also believe Wyndham is quietly buying contracts back (not just taking them back). I think they are looking for that price point where they will be able to control the secondary market.. If they pay enough no one will have to use a liquidation company (which drys up my supply) and guys like me will be encouraged to sell out to Wyndham


Wyndham stated goal for development costs if 16% of what they can sell the properties for. And they sell points out of their sales room for $220/1000 points. 220 x 0.16 = 35
I own enough points that if Wyndham offered me $35/1000 to buy them Id pocket over a mullion dollars.. You can be assured that I would sell out, and Wyndham would be done with one megarenter.

I really think thats how they are going to enforce their no commercial renting rule... they are going to buy us out


at least thats what Im betting on... So Im going to keep buying and keep renting as long as I can do it at the prices Im seeing now. until Wyndham puts me out or buys me out

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Id pocket over a mullion dollars.

I'd settle for that, too. I'd put it in the bunk.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

The reason for my comments about it here, which I realize is a bit off-topic, but still good for folks to know, is that what some Wyndham mega-points renters are doing, conducting an open commercial enterprise with vacation inventory, blatantly, is exactly what prompted the crackdown, and suspensions, 10-15 years ago at RCI.

At the very least, it is a slippery slope.

From 13 years ago, a discussion about a "similar" thing concerning RCI, which led to the crackdown:

http://www.tug1.net/tugbbs1/Forum5/HTML/000917.html

[tonyg Goomba & Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close tonyg]

I liked your post that said "I know nothing". Did you save the thread so you could recall the good old times with Gin...?

Also points out why your editing is not allowed here.

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

made you look

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

I have an explanation of their policy from Club Wyndham which I will share by PM.

[SallyHoover Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close SallyHoover]

I have an explanation of their policy from Club Wyndham which I will share by PM.

Wyndham's policy or RCI's?

[JLB Please excuse me, I'm a Dick. Not a moron just a Dick Find all posts View Profile Close JLB]

Club Wyndham's commercial use (members renting to others) policy.