Wyndham/Oceanside -- should we rescind?

[TimeshareVon Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close TimeshareVon]

There is a Yahoo group for Fairfield (Wyndham) owners that I now understand is being closed to new members, and they are trying to move people to a new bulletin board. Hopefully, someone will add a post with those links.

Here is the link to the new Wyndham Owners' group:
Wyndham Resorts Forums • Index page

[Spence Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close Spence]

Now, the obvious question -- why are all these people selling for such low prices? How can they even afford to pay 15k and then sell for 1500?

You don't know the half of it! On eBay most of the properties are a result of owners PAYING someone else $3500 to take their timeshare, then that entity dumps them for whatever.

Have these sellers generally paid off the timeshares already?

99% of the time, yes.

I'm asking this on behalf of my wife because she's in a state of disbellief that the retail markup could be so high. I'm sort of wondering the same thing.

It's not all markup in the retail sense, the developer timeshare model is an expensive proposition for them.

Our Wyndham salesperson started off by telling us we'd be getting a discounted rate because we were being asked to purchase that day.

You, and everyone else, these are salesmen, they know their marks, they'll eek out every dollar they can.... the people at the next table might have gotten a smaller or larger 'discount' based on what the salesman thought they could rake in.

[falmouth3 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close falmouth3]

Now, the obvious question -- why are all these people selling for such low prices? How can they even afford to pay 15k and then sell for 1500? Have these sellers generally paid off the timeshares already?

They are selling for such low prices because that is what the market price is. The product is the same, whether it's from the developer or resale, but the developer just charges much more. They get it because they convince people who are on vacation to "save in the long run." And they are convincing! Lots of people buy. They have to pay for the salespeople, the gifts, etc. Many, many people who are on TUG bought their first timeshare through a developer.

These units cannot be sold unless the original purchase price and outstanding fees has been paid off.

For example, there is a unit in Sedona for sale on eBay that has outstanding 2007 maintenance fees. It's being sold due to bankruptcy and it's been posted several times. No one will buy it at the $700+ price plus outstanding maintenance fees (and penalties) because the asking price plus fees is much more than the market will pay. Now if it was early 2007 instead of late 2007, buyers would be much more willing to reimburse the seller for current maintenance fees if they can use the week for which they are paying - getting a 2007 week for the 2007 maintenance fees.

I am an avid timeshare proponent, but I think that you need to be aware that there are financial responsibilities that go along with timeshare ownership.

I hope you rescinded. Take your time, read a lot here and then make your purchase resale.

Good luck.

[timeos2 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close timeos2]

The ugly truth. Retail Wyndham is a ripoff

Now, the obvious question -- why are all these people selling for such low prices? How can they even afford to pay 15k and then sell for 1500? Have these sellers generally paid off the timeshares already?

I'm asking this on behalf of my wife because she's in a state of disbellief that the retail markup could be so high. I'm sort of wondering the same thing. Our Wyndham salesperson started off by telling us we'd be getting a discounted rate because we were being asked to purchase that day.

Most buyers don't realize, and the sales weasels certainly aren't going to tell them, that the upfront purchase cost - that $.01 to $.15 per point resale to retail spread - only gets your name on a use contract and the right to pay the annual fees until you sell. Not one penny of that money goes to the Association that actually operates the resort for the owners. All operation and maintenance costs will be paid going forward by those annual fees NOT the purchase cost. The Developer (retail sales) does put up the original expense of building the resort and does have a legitimate claim to profits. But, unfortunately, the system that has evolved to sell those units is so inefficient that even the best of the best that try to keep resale prices high barely hold 70% of their retail value while companies like Wyndham, that actually go out of their way to devalue resale values, suffer loss of 80 to 90 percent or more of their retail value the minute the rescind period runs out.

So an informed buyer has to look at the resort, Wyndham has great locations, nice to great resorts at over 100 places, then say is it worth paying 90% more to become an owner through Wyndham to use the same resorts for the same fees that you can buy for 90% less on resale? Most people, given that choice, are going to pick resale. It is the only economically sensible choice to make. The smiling Weasels won't like it, they try to talk you out of it, they pull out all the stops to make it sound like you are losing something by purchasing resale (you aren't but they are - the commission that buys you nothing!). The very process that makes resale a tremendous value while retail is now a losers choice unless you enjoy watching 90% of what you ay disappear on day 8 of ownership.

It does seem unbelievable but that's how it is. How Wyndham can sell under these conditions is a mystery except that you ave to realize most buyers are not aware of resales until it's too late. They also end up suffering the loss when they sell. It is almost a crime.

[Odoole Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Odoole]

we did rescind

Thanks for all the info. We faxed and mailed (w/return receipt requested) our cancellation paperwork. Now I'm waiting for the phone to ring, assuming they're going to try to talk us out of it. It's great to get all the feedback from this forum.

Will I get something else in writing from them confirming the cancellation? We put our down payment on a credit card, so, of course, I'll be watching to see when that is credited.

My next step will be to keep doing research here on how to buy resell. We'd like to do that soon.

[bnoble Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close bnoble]

they pull out all the stops to make it sound like you are losing something by purchasing resale (you aren't but they are

Well, technically, you are losing a *little* something. If you have no developer purchases, *and* you've never converted a fixed week through the developer, then your account does not have the Plus Partners attribute. Most of the PP "benefits" are of dubious value, but at least the soft-of access to RCI points is worth a little something. Likewise, if you eventually come to own a sufficient number of points, those who bought from the developer are eligible for certain "VIP" perks, while those who bought resale are not.

In my estimation, the value of these two put together justify a small spread in price, but certainly not an order-of-magnitude difference.

[Amanda Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Amanda]

I am not familiar with the point system. When we bought our timeshare, we bought it for 3 weeks every year, therefore it was easy to determine a good price as you knew exactly what you were getting (the particular place we bought at also has a hotel side so we were staying there the first year, and saw the property, the timeshare rooms, etc.)

How can you tell what points are worth? How does it work? Do you think points are better than weeks?

[biskits Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close biskits]

Good Move!!!!

Good move in listening to the advice you received on this board...
Unfortuately I found TS4MS after I bought 154000 FF points retail at Marina El Cid in Mazatlan Mx 4 years ago for $15000....HUGE mistake buying from the developer!!!
I would be lucky to be able sell for $2000 today.
Continue to educate yourself by reading posts on this forum and on TUGS before you actually buy. Some of the suggestions I have read
include buying something where you would like to actually stay and can afford to travel to. (I live in the Boston area...as much as I love Mazatlan, to fly there is very expensive and a 6 hour flight. I would have been better
buying a red 2 bedroom during July or August on Cape Cod as it is somewhere I can drive to if I want to use it or it would be an excellent trader to exchange with). Learn about the different exchange companies
that are alternatives to RCI and Wyndham/FF. Some have free membership
and some offer exchanges not available thru RCI. Learn about the sightings posted daily on this sight and how people on this board will try to help you make better exchanges for the timeshare that you are trading.
For me, all the information available at first was overwhelming. But by reading a little each day and by asking questions on the thread or thru
private messages, the pieces are starting to fall into place.
Welcome to TS4MS!!!! I am sure many wonderful vacations await you!!!
Best wishes,
Paul

[4ARedOctober Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close 4ARedOctober]

I just now read this. Congrats to Odoole for saving $$$$$thousands$$$$$ and congrats to timeshareforums for helping save another from the sales weasels.

Great Job

Thanks for all the info. We faxed and mailed (w/return receipt requested) our cancellation paperwork. Now I'm waiting for the phone to ring, assuming they're going to try to talk us out of it. It's great to get all the feedback from this forum.

Will I get something else in writing from them confirming the cancellation? We put our down payment on a credit card, so, of course, I'll be watching to see when that is credited.

My next step will be to keep doing research here on how to buy resell. We'd like to do that soon.