FF Waikiki Beach Resales

[djyamyam Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close djyamyam]

We're currently at the FF Kona Hawaiian Village. We met a young couple that bought precontruction? (from developer at least) last year. They bought 154K points. We got talking and I introduced them to the concept of resale, ebay, etc. They would like to buy an additional 154K points, preferably at the current home resort.

I showed them on ebay all the current points contracts that exist but didn't find any Waikiki Beach ones available. Redweek and MRN had a couple overpriced packages. Vacationtimesharerentals had a couple overpriced ones and one 168K annual point ownership for $8700. I still thought that was high.

I'm used to reading about FF points going for .01 to .025 per point in the current environment. Have I given these folks unrealistic expectations?

My additional questions are:

1. Is WB a new resort and that's why there aren't a lot of resales out there?

2. If they were to buy 154 K points at another resort, which should they buy with lower MFs. (They said theire current MFs are quite low - would make sense if it's a newer resort)

3. What is the going rate of resale points for WB? Is that price I showed them for 168K realistic?

4. I think I know the answer but just to clarify: If they purchase 154K points at another resort, they can only use those points 10 months out to book back at WB. Is that correct? If so, how difficult is that considering they like to go to Hawaii. They like Kaui as well, so what's it like to book into FF Kaui resorts at that 10 month mark? Would it make sense for them to buy at a FF Kaui resort so they can book at the 13 month mark?

5. They were asking about combining accounts. I assume that wouldn't be a problem. How would that affect MFs, if any? Would it become a blended rate if they bought at a different resort?

I figure I know enough about FF to be dangerous so I'm coming to the experts.

DJ

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

yes you did give them somewhat unrealistic figure. These are the reasons IMHO
1. WB is new, most eBay list are from people paid off and want to get out so they even willing to give it to some PCC company with hugh money. That will be very rare in new resorts. However, a few will start to appear in 3 years, which maybe next year
2. WB has very limited unit, unlike some resorts that will have thousands unit. Let us say about 40% owner want out. The most it will show will be around 100 units. And of 40%, 10% willing to accept any possible price, then it is only 10 units, and add to possible timeline, it maybe over 5 to 10 year frame.
3. People buying from eBay are mostly care about the resort, HI, BC, LV are usually get more per point. Although a lot of posts like to devalue the whole product, and most of posts correct point out the usage at 10th month is no different and there are enough availability so no need to worry the accumulation, but most people will not do that. So the avg. price is depends on location, not MF.

Tell them to be patient. There will be opportunities, but will take a while, and should not be that low.

I believe I answered #1 and #3

For your question #2, ask them to contact Tom C, and looking for prime week converted week with 2 + bedroom, but be prepared, WB may not be able to hold its low MF. At this moment, Hawaii 1 BD is around $600 to 700 MF and those are weekly resort, and 154 is lowest point value for 1 BD. I will expect since it is hawaii, people usually stay week long, so the MF maybe in the same range, but since it should be high end, so the total MF should be in high end. That means they may see some readjustment on MF.

For question #4, Kaui is from PAHIO, so if there is any inventory, it will come from unsold inventories and converted week. Until the new construction get done, it maybe harder than WB. But with PAHIO get to FF, the week system's price get pulled down, they maybe much easier to get a resal week there (however, beawre that the developer will use a phantom ROFR). But depends on when they want to go, it maybe pretty acceptable at 10 month period. Ask them to look at the reservation page and do some research.

For #5, the MF is depended on resort. So they will get a blend MF.

Jya-Ning

[djyamyam Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close djyamyam]

Thanks for your responses Jya-Ning.

I did some more looking last night and didn't find too many low priced units as you commented. However, I did find a 400K point ownership advertised for WB advertised for $12K, which would come out to .03 / point. Everything else was significantly higher. I believe I recognized the same of the seller as a large FF points renter/owner, so it makes sense his number is more realistic.

Based on what you've commented about this being a new resort, wouldn't that .03 / point price seem like a good deal (at this time)?

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Yes, if you just want to be the owner of that resort. You may be able to neg. a little.

Of course, when stock market is down and everyone is afraid of subprime, I don't know what the future may led to the resale on that place, for now, I believe that is very good price.

Jya-Ning

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Just in case they still want to do more research, they can look at the historical eBay completed price in this forum. I now have over 1 1/2 data.

They will need to look at BC since it is like WB all build from UDI. But BC has about 3 times units than WB.

They can look at KHR and RSC, it should show some similiarity like PAHIO. Those places don't come that frequently, but they do come.

They also need to look at maybe west coast forum. I believe at early (just maybe 1 month within), there was a package (big size) from a brand new FF-Wyndham resort no less sell by Angel, and grab by one of the member here at about $20 per 1k which consider the resort just open to member, is great deal.

But after all says and done, I think this deal is good one itself if you want to be the owner in that resort, I believe a lot of members in this forum will be glad to buy it. Just make sure they have enough money to buy it.

Jya-Ning