Wyndham Points

[Jya-Ning Silver Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Jya-Ning]

Of a lot TS mini system program, Wyndham's one, mega renters has no or less advantage unless there is some VC work with them.

At 13 month, home resort owner has priority as long as you have enough points.

VIP can enjoy the discount or upgrade on at the last 60 days or within.

If you don't willing to make decision earlier, or fight for the reservation, no matter how the system changes, there is no way a point base TS can work for you at all.

They will do all they can to cut corner, and we as owner will do all we can to make sure no corner is cut no matter what kind of reason or execuse they come or if it actually impact me or not. That is that simple. Even if you can think or see that is a good way or bad way, unless Wyndham actually provides any real number and detail tracing record, and a certified accountant signature, it really mean nothing.

By removing point transfer, they are forcing owner to make an actual reservation and rent out when they have too many points to digest, and they are forcing owner to look for priceline, other products when they need more in the short time period.

They just make the whole product less flexible. And as always, there is nothing in number to show why they take this type of action. And will be nothing, unlike owning their stock/company, where they have to report to SEC every quarter and come out a good reason for their major actions.

Jya-Ning

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

There are some here that have proposed the 'theory' that Wyndham has made the decision of cancelling the benefit of renting points mainly because of previous abuses that the mega-renters/VIPs have done in the past.

I feel the decision is more based on raising revenue to make up for the current losses they're faced with now (in sales, rentals, and operating revenue). I also believe that is why they established the fee increases a few months ago. The company is currently severely hurting... within the last week they've closed down at least two call centers (that I know of), with over 800 people losing their jobs. This is on top of all the massive sales layoffs earlier this year.

This is a decision that they could make that is within their span of control...and competing against the Marriots, Starwoods, etc. is not something they can easily make a decision to have much of an influence.

To answer your questions - yes, the mega-renters do buy points and then use those points to book rooms, and rent them out... yes, some mega-renters use them for their own personal reservations only.

I personally don't blame the mega-renters... it's their right to use the system to the best of their ability within the rules. And many have paid a hefty price for that privilege. There are many owners that feel the mega-renters are taking the better inventory, etc. and causing other problems. So, I'm just trying to give you both sides.

I don't think anyone is blaming them for the loss in resale value. I don't, and I'll let the others speak for themselves. I would be more likely to blame Wyndham for the loss in resale value for taking away the features and benefits that used to make Wyndham an outstanding value in purchasing resale.

And one of the most important features for me, was the ability to rent or purchase those points from other members.

Signed 'The First Ace'

The cancellation of transferring points between Wyn owners has nothing to do with sales or VIP benefits. Wyn's profit or loss as a company has nothing to do with the Fairshare Plus VOA trust. Until this last year, the VOA trust has made surpluses from its operations. This last year, it basically broke even.

It is incomprehensible to me as to why they are doing this. There has been no communication from the VOA trust to owners that they were having problems or trouble with transferring points between owners. None of the extra fees/profits that the VOA trust makes goes to Wyn corp.

[ace1001 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace1001]

If you need a few points to fill out your stay, last I checked, I could buy them from Wyndham for $20/1000 points. I know the open market was more like $3. That is probably how much the owners got. The disparity will get worse if they have no competition. I don't think they could win a lawsuit over this. I have been verbally promised that the points could be used in this way on half a dozen sales pitches. Most states have Right of Use laws.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

You aren't having a conversation with yourself, are you?

LOL - sorry, I have no idea who the other Ace is... What do you do if someone hijacks your screen name??? I'm TELLING!!!!

No problem, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I guess...

Signed
The Original Ace

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

It is incomprehensible to me as to why they are doing this. There has been no communication from the VOA trust to owners that they were having problems or trouble with transferring points between owners. None of the extra fees/profits that the VOA trust makes goes to Wyn corp.

Are you saying that you believe that Wyndham cannot influence the VOA to change the rules in their favor??? I don't think that's what you mean, but that is what you're saying here.

Edit: The VOA and Wyndham are the same (not officially, but unofficially)... that's the unfortunate dilemma we're currently in.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

If you need a few points to fill out your stay, last I checked, I could buy them from Wyndham for $20/1000 points. I know the open market was more like $3. That is probably how much the owners got. The disparity will get worse if they have no competition. I don't think they could win a lawsuit over this. I have been verbally promised that the points could be used in this way on half a dozen sales pitches. Most states have Right of Use laws.

Current Wyndham pricing was changed to $10/1000...

A verbal promise is worth nothing to you.

[ace1001 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace1001]

Though I have been to many sales pitches in the last 30yrs., I am a new owner. Finally found a deeded property where I wanted, in the bld I wanted that is converted to points, on the open market.
Now they tell me that the fee to book is going to raise to $129 so splitting your stay into two will be expensive.
Also points will no longer be transferred privately between members.
Also no matter how many points you get in the secondary market, you cannot be VIP. Am I understanding correctly. I believe the first two violate my right of use. Certainly contradicts the sales pitches I have attended. These things DO effect the value of the TS more than large point holders. I won't buy more till it is worked out. Ace

[ace1001 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace1001]

I have been ace1001 for a decade on at least a dozen sites and newsgroups. There is almost always several aces.

[ace1001 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace1001]

Can you tell me what the owner is payed for Wyndham sold points?

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

I have been ace1001 for a decade on at least a dozen sites and newsgroups. There is almost always several aces.

Not a problem... I use ace2000 on Tug also. Nothing to worry about.

[mshatty Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close mshatty]

Are you saying that you believe that Wyndham cannot influence the VOA to change the rules in their favor??? I don't think that's what you mean, but that is what you're saying here.

Edit: The VOA and Wyndham are the same (not officially, but unofficially)... that's the unfortunate dilemma we're currently in.

Do I think Wyndham can influence the VOA, who are its employees, yes. Explain to me how this "favors" Wyn by not allowing owners to tranfer points between themselves?

Does Wyndham get anything out of this? Little if nothing at all.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

Explain to me how this "favors" Wyn by not allowing owners to tranfer points between themselves?

Does Wyndham get anything out of this? Little if nothing at all.

Hi Mike, thank you for the reply.

We know one thing for sure, they gain $10/1000 on each point sale from now on. And they are effectively making it harder for the mega-renters to turn a profit.

I think they gain enough out of the change to justify making the change (at least in their minds anyways). I cannot quantify it, and I don't think anyone here can either. There's a disagreement on whether it's significant, but that's ok!

[ace1001 Junior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace1001]

Does anyone know how much they pay owners for their points? Now they are the ONLY market so not much incentive to pay much. Ace

[BocaBum99 Super Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close BocaBum99]

With all these Aces, I am getting confused at the arguments being posed and who is posing them.

Can someone summarize?

I think that the primary reason for the cancellation of transferring points is so that the Wyndham sales team does not have to pay for VIP benefits such as discounted points and waived no housekeeping fees for non-VIP credits transferred to a VIP account.

One of the Aces believes that they are doing this purely for profit of their rental agency by reducing competition.

Mshatty believes that Wyndham does not directly benefit from eliminating transfers and is perplexed why they would take this action.

[ace2000 Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close ace2000]

One of the Aces believes that they are doing this purely for profit of their rental agency by reducing competition.

Mshatty believes that Wyndham does not directly benefit from eliminating transfers and is perplexed why they would take this action.

I believe the discussion has been beaten to death so badly that it doesn't matter what the motives are. And if anyone wants to read pure speculation, then they can read the previous posts on this thread.

The change has been made and everyone has to adapt accordingly.

For me, the real question is going to be - is now the time to sell? I've stated earlier that I believe Wyndham resale prices will be going down drastically in the near future. Besides the issue of losing the benefit to rent/buy points on the private market, that's the more important issue.

I'll probably hang on, but it sure is tempting...